So called “Service Dogs” on board ships

[ghstudio]

A couple of things to remember....

 

HAL can only ask specific questions....you and I are not bound by that...we can ask anything.  I've found over the years that 99% of those working with real, trained service dogs are happy to talk about their animals...what they can do, etc.  If you ask someone about their dog....complement it, ask where it was trained, etc...it's a 99% sure bet that if they start to recite the law to you or act as if you have imposed on them...it's a fake service dog.  

 

Comfort dogs are more difficult and have less protection under the law....If I see a dog eating from a table, that's a health violation.  PTSD assistance dogs are one thing...but most comfort dogs are just nice pets.

 

Don't get me wrong...I am a major contributor to our local guide dog training facility....it costs about $60,000 to train a service dog and they are given away...no charge to the recipient.  Those dogs change lives....  I love dogs....and comfort dogs, with the exception of PTSD trauma dogs,  have their place, but that's not on a cruise ship, unless they stay in the cabin....not just having the run of the ship with someone who gets comfort by holding fifi (or didn't want to pay for a kennel....which happens more often than you might think).

[wizard-of-roz]

17 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

Dalmatians were our breed of choice for many years, had numerous others including Collie, Border Collie, Shetland Sheepdog, Corgi,  Doberman, Labrador, Chinese Crested, Kelpie

 

But now I have gone over to the Schnauzer side.

Like you, we've had just about every breed you can imagine. 

 

When I applied for a Service Dog I went to Canine Companions for Independence.  They only breed, raise, and train Labs, Golden Retrievers and a cross between the two.  My first SD was a pure English Lab. and my second is a cross between the Lab/Golden Ret.  He is, no kidding, stunningly handsome.  

 

The shedding hair can be quite daunting to my allergies but so worth it!

[wizard-of-roz]

10 minutes ago, ghstudio said:

A couple of things to remember....

 

HAL can only ask specific questions....you and I are not bound by that...we can ask anything.  I've found over the years that 99% of those working with real, trained service dogs are happy to talk about their animals...what they can do, etc.  If you ask someone about their dog....complement it, ask where it was trained, etc...it's a 99% sure bet that if they start to recite the law to you or act as if you have imposed on them...it's a fake service dog.  

 

Comfort dogs are more difficult and have less protection under the law....If I see a dog eating from a table, that's a health violation.  PTSD assistance dogs are one thing...but most comfort dogs are just nice pets.

 

Don't get me wrong...I am a major contributor to our local guide dog training facility....it costs about $60,000 to train a service dog and they are given away...no charge to the recipient.  Those dogs change lives....  I love dogs....and comfort dogs, with the exception of PTSD trauma dogs,  have their place, but that's not on a cruise ship, unless they stay in the cabin....not just having the run of the ship with someone who gets comfort by holding fifi (or didn't want to pay for a kennel....which happens more often than you might think).

I have been subjected twice while onboard a cruise with "fake" Service Dogs."  It is so obvious when a dog is not well trained to be in the public.  I have very little patience for the folks who think it's okay to bring their "feel good" dogs onboard. 

 

It gives those of us who have fully trained dogs and need them, to go out into the world, a bad name and a much more difficult time when we need to travel with them.  I need my SD to live a normal physical life.

 

Please don't make my life more difficult with a nippy, growling, un-trained, feel-good pet.  If you want to travel with your dog.....get him trained, get him certified and give him and yourself a better life!

 

 

[TAD2005]

For some insane reason, the US government considers miniature horses as acceptable as "comfort animals".    Some of these miniature horses can weigh 100 lbs.   There was a recent picture and video of a woman walking through an airport with this horse, slowly trotting behind her.   She boarded an American Airlines flight.  I have no idea where this horse stood during the flight.  But there were pictures of the captain and flight crew taking selfies with the horse, all of them smiling.   I wonder how much that captain would be smiling if they had an emergency landing and the passengers had to evacuate the cabin using the emergency slides ?   Can you imagine a 100 lb horse, slowly trotting up the aisle to the emergency exit door with 150 screaming, panicked passengers trying to reach an exit ?   And once you get this 100 lb horse to the exit door, will this woman be capable of picking up this horse and throwing it down the emergency escape slide.   The horse will not do that on his own.   And if you somehow can get the horse onto the slide, his hooves will cut the slide to ribbons.  Women are advised to remove high heel shoes when using the emergency escape slides for this reason. 

Allowing horses of any size on airplanes is absolute insanity just to be politically correct.    I sure hope the cruise lines exclude any animals other than trained, legitimate service dogs from boarding ships. 

[kevingastreich]

On 5/13/2019 at 2:41 PM, dundeene said:

I am an early childhood center director and own a service dog. (pediatric panic attack, ptsd and anxiety)

You see her photo as a puppy to the left. 

It took 2 years for her to get her certification. In order to pass the test, she had to go into public (restaurants, stores, parks) and remain at stay/down without me until recalled for 20 minutes. This included being passed by people, wheelchairs, strollers, vacuums, bikes, children etc.

She is welcome in hospitals, hospice, etc and would never relieve herself when not approved. 

 

Your dog sounds awesome!

[Bemidji Ty]

Then there is this:

 

 

[kevingastreich]

51 minutes ago, TAD2005 said:

For some insane reason, the US government considers miniature horses as acceptable as "comfort animals".    Some of these miniature horses can weigh 100 lbs.   There was a recent picture and video of a woman walking through an airport with this horse, slowly trotting behind her.   She boarded an American Airlines flight.  I have no idea where this horse stood during the flight.  But there were pictures of the captain and flight crew taking selfies with the horse, all of them smiling.   I wonder how much that captain would be smiling if they had an emergency landing and the passengers had to evacuate the cabin using the emergency slides ?   Can you imagine a 100 lb horse, slowly trotting up the aisle to the emergency exit door with 150 screaming, panicked passengers trying to reach an exit ?   And once you get this 100 lb horse to the exit door, will this woman be capable of picking up this horse and throwing it down the emergency escape slide.   The horse will not do that on his own.   And if you somehow can get the horse onto the slide, his hooves will cut the slide to ribbons.  Women are advised to remove high heel shoes when using the emergency escape slides for this reason. 

Allowing horses of any size on airplanes is absolute insanity just to be politically correct.    I sure hope the cruise lines exclude any animals other than trained, legitimate service dogs from boarding ships. 

If the women have to remove their high heels, I think the horse should have to remove his shoes too.

[GeorgeCharlie]

Interesting article of the Aussie view of emotional support animals. Not sure if they apply the same rules to cruise ships.

 

https://www.traveller.com.au/can-you-fly-with-emotional-support-animals-in-australia-the-rules-around-flying-with-pets-h1ijmq?promote_channel=edmail&mbnr=MjA0NDUzNDY&eid=email:nnn-13omn645-ret_newsl-membereng:nnn-04%2F11%2F2013-smh_travel-dom-travel-nnn-smh-u&campaign_code=13ITR004&list_name=10078_traveller_news&instance=2019-10-04--02-01--UTC

 

[wizard-of-roz]

Let's be clear:  Emotional Support animals DO NOT HAVE PUBLIC ACCESS.  Unless the Service Animal is trained for PTSD or to perform specific physical tasks for their handler the dog/minature horse will NOT be permitted in the public venue.  The ONLY animals that have public access and are approved by the DOJ, thereby covered by the ADA is the dog and minature horse.  Actually, it's the handler that is covered by the federal laws.

 

My Service Dog weighs 100lbs.  Is as big as a minature horse and has nails on the end of his paws.  His nails are as capable as a person's toe or fingernails are to rip into a plastc or rubber emergency slide on an airplane.  Not to speak of belt buckles, watches and jewelry.  FYI:  The shoes that are used for the Minature Horse can be made of hard rubber and are very safe to use on rubber or plastic products.

 

To show pictures of pigs/birds/snakes, etc. as Service Animals is not only ridiculous but demeaning and so misleading as to the importance and much needed respect that our Service Animals deserve!  I don't find such pictures amusing at all!!!!

Edited October 5, 2019 by wizard-of-roz

[GUT2407]

7 hours ago, wizard-of-roz said:

Like you, we've had just about every breed you can imagine. 

 

When I applied for a Service Dog I went to Canine Companions for Independence.  They only breed, raise, and train Labs, Golden Retrievers and a cross between the two.  My first SD was a pure English Lab. and my second is a cross between the Lab/Golden Ret.  He is, no kidding, stunningly handsome.  

 

The shedding hair can be quite daunting to my allergies but so worth it!

One of the beauties of Schnauzers, no shedding, now as for Dalmatians??😱😟

 

[GUT2407]

And yes you boy looks handsome.

[rj42]

I remember getting outraged by seeing a couple of Pomeranians walking the promenade on the Westerdam, with their own little grass relief area. That night they appeared in the show with a magician, so I felt a little foolish. He even told a joke about the attitudes when he was walking them, saying people asked him indignantly if the dogs were allowed on the ship, to which he replied "No, they're not". 

 

It's a dangerous thing if the emotional support dog scammers start bringing them on board, instead of just planes. I get that people get lonely without their dogs and don't want the expense and confinement of a kennel, and they want to get attention on a ship and spoil their precious pet with room service steak. But it's cruel to a dog, cruel to the stewards who have to clean up their messes, and disrespectful to other passengers, especially future occupancy of rooms that smell like dog pee or have poo stains and dander. HAL stewards already do the quickest and most stressful turn-around of any cruise line before debarkation, they don't need to do a pet cleanup as well. 

[wizard-of-roz]

A true Service Dog is well groomed.  Would NEVER go to the bathroom anywhere but the potty box and do not smell.  

 

What most people bring in and on their clothing, hair and skin, which is filled with dander from their pets at home, is more, much more than a well-groomed SD could ever bring onboard.  Be careful who you stand near in an elevator.

 

 

[Underwatr]

10 hours ago, wizard-of-roz said:

Unless the Service Animal is trained for PTSD or to perform specific physical tasks for their handler the dog/minature horse will NOT be permitted in the public venue

Change will not to should not and I agree. In  practice an emotional support animal or an untrained animal posing as a service animal can go anywhere their owner can pressure someone into.

On a QM2 tender there was a woman with a small squirmy dog wearing a service dog vest. The owner was openly discussing with strangers how she might bring her other dog along on the next cruise. The family and the dog were in the theater one night until the woman's husband left the theater with it, presumably to take it to their cabin.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Underwatr

[Hlitner]

I love Service Dogs.  Most do an amazing job (and it is their "job") helping their owners improve their quality of life.   As to so-called Emotional Support Dogs, they are a fraud when it comes to special treatment.  Any dog lover will tell you that all dogs are emotional support dogs for their owners (and usually their families).  So are Gold Fish!  That does not mean they should be in areas and places where pets  are not normally allowed and should certainly not be in cruise ship MDRs sitting in their baby carriage or on their master's lap.  So-called Emotional Support Animals have caused all kinds of problems, especially for those with legitimate highly trained Service Animals.   The cruise lines, airlines and other organizations need to toughen their spines and take a firm stand against allowing emotional support animals on cruise ships!

 

Hank

[lindaler]

17 hours ago, wizard-of-roz said:

I have been subjected twice while onboard a cruise with "fake" Service Dogs."  It is so obvious when a dog is not well trained to be in the public.  I have very little patience for the folks who think it's okay to bring their "feel good" dogs onboard. 

 

It gives those of us who have fully trained dogs and need them, to go out into the world, a bad name and a much more difficult time when we need to travel with them.  I need my SD to live a normal physical life.

 

Please don't make my life more difficult with a nippy, growling, un-trained, feel-good pet.  If you want to travel with your dog.....get him trained, get him certified and give him and yourself a better life!

 

 

Worst nightmare is when a fake sd goes after my sd who is doing her job and sitting right by my feet.  I have had the fake owner tell me their dog just wanted to play and I am a "b" because I won't allow my dog to be a dog.  

 

Without my service dog I would miss what most would consider a normal life. I like to think that the others who cruised with us on our Alaska cruise would say that most of the time they didn't even know she was there.

[taxmantoo]

A few years ago, we had lunch in the MDR with a very well loved and respected Hotel Director on HAL.  At one point, the discussion turned to age and disability as they apply to cruising. He was very forthright and offered his opinion that approximately 40% of the people in the MDR should not be on a cruise ship for safety reasons and would be in serious difficulty if there was a real emergency.  

The next time we meet, I will ask what percentage of dogs he thinks should be allowed on board.   I think I might already  know his answer.  😉

[3rdGenCunarder]

18 hours ago, wizard-of-roz said:

I have been subjected twice while onboard a cruise with "fake" Service Dogs."  It is so obvious when a dog is not well trained to be in the public.  I have very little patience for the folks who think it's okay to bring their "feel good" dogs onboard. 

 

It gives those of us who have fully trained dogs and need them, to go out into the world, a bad name and a much more difficult time when we need to travel with them.  I need my SD to live a normal physical life.

 

Please don't make my life more difficult with a nippy, growling, un-trained, feel-good pet.  If you want to travel with your dog.....get him trained, get him certified and give him and yourself a better life!

 

 

 

I hate that people buy the vests and try to pass off a pet as a service dog. It devalues the real service dogs and makes people skeptical when they see a dog with a vest. I've seen plenty of fakes. As you say, their behavior in public gives them away. I don't say anything because there's nothing I can do, anyway. It would only offend people with real service dogs and people with fakes would lie.

 

The general public also need to learn that a service dog is working and you shouldn't rush up and pet it. There was a beautiful service dog (lab) on a cruise I took last fall. I love dogs and I really wanted to say hello and pet him, but I know that I can't do that. 

 

[mamaofami]

7 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I hate that people buy the vests and try to pass off a pet as a service dog. It devalues the real service dogs and makes people skeptical when they see a dog with a vest. I've seen plenty of fakes. As you say, their behavior in public gives them away. I don't say anything because there's nothing I can do, anyway. It would only offend people with real service dogs and people with fakes would lie.

 

The general public also need to learn that a service dog is working and you shouldn't rush up and pet it. There was a beautiful service dog (lab) on a cruise I took last fall. I love dogs and I really wanted to say hello and pet him, but I know that I can't do that. 

 

True service dogs know how to behave and would never run wild. I hate that it's so easy to buy a vest off the internet and simply say the dog is a service animal. According to ADA rules, you can not ask a person what their disability is or if the dog is really a service dog. Those that abuse the law make it difficult for those that really need a service dog.

[Shmoo here]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I love Service Dogs.  Most do an amazing job (and it is their "job") helping their owners improve their quality of life.   As to so-called Emotional Support Dogs, they are a fraud when it comes to special treatment.  Any dog lover will tell you that all dogs are emotional support dogs for their owners (and usually their families).  So are Gold Fish!  That does not mean they should be in areas and places where pets  are not normally allowed and should certainly not be in cruise ship MDRs sitting in their baby carriage or on their master's lap.  So-called Emotional Support Animals have caused all kinds of problems, especially for those with legitimate highly trained Service Animals.   The cruise lines, airlines and other organizations need to toughen their spines and take a firm stand against allowing emotional support animals on cruise ships!

 

Hank

Hear, hear!

[lindaler]

When I read this topic when it first came out in the spring I was ready to cancel my cruise but to all who hope to be able to cruise with a service dog I want to say that there is help. It's sort of buried under disabilities and I am sure Roz or someone can post the link. Those guys walked me through all the steps needed to get a USDA 7001 and how many copies of all the forms I would need.  They were there when I spent 45 days training my dog to use a little box while on board. Life would be so much easier if I didn't need my service dog but I do and thanks to her we had a great time cruising and will do it again in Feb.  

[Sir PMP]

21 hours ago, Bemidji Ty said:

Then there is this:

 

 

Look at her face, she's nuts, next time I''l bring my service gorilla..

[terrydtx]

1 hour ago, Sir PMP said:

Look at her face, she's nuts, next time I''l bring my service gorilla..

 

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by terrydtx

[Live4cruises]

For a wonderful example of a hero, please read Thunder Dog.  It is the account of a Seeing Eye dog who saved not only her person, but others out of one of the towers on 9/11.  

[dockman]

and another great "dog book"....the art of racing in the rain....told by a dog and soon to be a motion picture....

Edited October 5, 2019 by dockman