Rare jimbo5544 Posted January 2, 2020 #126 Share Posted January 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said: I'm bumping this again because I found a couple of articles relating to Carnival's latest visit to court on December 19. The first article is about how the visit itself went: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article238541118.html I skimmed the article and my very basic TL,DR is that they are making progress in several different ways and the major players will all be back in court on January 8. The other article is about Pete Anderson, Carnival Corporation's new Chief Ethics and Compliance Officer at https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article238043299.html . He's in charge of fixing the messes Carnival has made through the years and getting through their current legal trouble. TL,DR: His credentials look good, and he's optimistic but realistic about the job at hand. Excellent finds, thanks for posting. Chief, would love to hear your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bury me at sea Posted January 2, 2020 #127 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Thanks for posting the updates Honolulu Blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted January 3, 2020 #128 Share Posted January 3, 2020 While it sounds very positive, and the personnel mentioned in the articles appear to embrace the ISM culture, rather than the "blame culture", it is early times. While I agree that "perfection is not realistic", and that in the early years, violations will still happen, it is how the company deals with the violations, in other words, is the "process" working (is it being reported up the chain, and are the lessons learned implemented into future policy) that is important. One thing I noted from the article, is that the compliance office has a budget. For a corporation like Carnival, that budget seems very small, even though it is tens of millions of dollars. My company has a saying that "there is no budget for environmental compliance", meaning the company will pay whatever is needed to operate within current policies and procedures, and will implement whatever is needed to implement future policies and procedures when faults in the system are identified. That is the kind of commitment I would like to see from Carnival, essentially saying that environmental compliance comes ahead of corporate profit, before I fully embrace their posture. I would love to know if Carnival has adopted a "KPI" (key performance indicator) system for compliance. This sets a corporate goal for the number of each type of violation that is allowed, and publishes to the company how each KPI was met over the past year. During the first years, some violations should be planned for in the KPI's, but they should trend towards zero infractions, and this gives the company as a whole a clear picture of how the entire system is working. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jimbo5544 Posted January 3, 2020 #129 Share Posted January 3, 2020 55 minutes ago, chengkp75 said: While it sounds very positive, and the personnel mentioned in the articles appear to embrace the ISM culture, rather than the "blame culture", it is early times. While I agree that "perfection is not realistic", and that in the early years, violations will still happen, it is how the company deals with the violations, in other words, is the "process" working (is it being reported up the chain, and are the lessons learned implemented into future policy) that is important. One thing I noted from the article, is that the compliance office has a budget. For a corporation like Carnival, that budget seems very small, even though it is tens of millions of dollars. My company has a saying that "there is no budget for environmental compliance", meaning the company will pay whatever is needed to operate within current policies and procedures, and will implement whatever is needed to implement future policies and procedures when faults in the system are identified. That is the kind of commitment I would like to see from Carnival, essentially saying that environmental compliance comes ahead of corporate profit, before I fully embrace their posture. I would love to know if Carnival has adopted a "KPI" (key performance indicator) system for compliance. This sets a corporate goal for the number of each type of violation that is allowed, and publishes to the company how each KPI was met over the past year. During the first years, some violations should be planned for in the KPI's, but they should trend towards zero infractions, and this gives the company as a whole a clear picture of how the entire system is working. Thanks for the input, as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Honolulu Blue Posted January 3, 2020 #130 Share Posted January 3, 2020 16 hours ago, bury me at sea said: Thanks for posting the updates Honolulu Blue. You're welcome. I figured at least a few people were interested in this ongoing story. It looks like the Miami Herald, at least, will be covering this well into the future, so you might want to look there for stories about Carnival's next appearance in court next week. I'll be prepping for a cruise then and I may not be able to provide updates to this thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronrythm Posted January 3, 2020 #131 Share Posted January 3, 2020 https://www.foxnews.com/travel/carnival-cruise-ship-discharges-grey-water-florida-port Another fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted January 3, 2020 #132 Share Posted January 3, 2020 20 minutes ago, ronrythm said: https://www.foxnews.com/travel/carnival-cruise-ship-discharges-grey-water-florida-port Another fail. While this sounds serious according to an uninformed media type, it shows that the "process" is working (the problem was located quickly, it was reported, and they are working to find ways to prevent it in future). And the "uninformed" part of my statement is because what they somewhat sensationalize is really a very technical violation. This "gray water", which is in the ship's ballast tanks, is actually treated effluent from the waste water plant. The water has been treated to near clear drinking water quality, but is nevertheless classified as "gray water" as long as it is in the ship. The ship is not allowed to place untreated water into the ballast tanks. So, while this is a "technical" violation, in that the water, by definition, should not have been discharged, it posed absolutely no hazard to the environment. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jimbo5544 Posted January 3, 2020 #133 Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, ronrythm said: https://www.foxnews.com/travel/carnival-cruise-ship-discharges-grey-water-florida-port Another fail. SO maybe you meant success..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted January 3, 2020 #134 Share Posted January 3, 2020 24 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said: SO maybe you meant success..... Really neither. The process is working, but there should be no violations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS CRUZIN Posted January 3, 2020 #135 Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, chengkp75 said: While this sounds serious according to an uninformed media type, it shows that the "process" is working (the problem was located quickly, it was reported, and they are working to find ways to prevent it in future). And the "uninformed" part of my statement is because what they somewhat sensationalize is really a very technical violation. This "gray water", which is in the ship's ballast tanks, is actually treated effluent from the waste water plant. The water has been treated to near clear drinking water quality, but is nevertheless classified as "gray water" as long as it is in the ship. The ship is not allowed to place untreated water into the ballast tanks. So, while this is a "technical" violation, in that the water, by definition, should not have been discharged, it posed absolutely no hazard to the environment. Agree! How about that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jimbo5544 Posted January 3, 2020 #136 Share Posted January 3, 2020 14 minutes ago, chengkp75 said: Really neither. The process is working, but there should be no violations. Agreed, just a little chop busting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummgood Posted January 3, 2020 #137 Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 hours ago, chengkp75 said: While this sounds serious according to an uninformed media type, it shows that the "process" is working (the problem was located quickly, it was reported, and they are working to find ways to prevent it in future). And the "uninformed" part of my statement is because what they somewhat sensationalize is really a very technical violation. This "gray water", which is in the ship's ballast tanks, is actually treated effluent from the waste water plant. The water has been treated to near clear drinking water quality, but is nevertheless classified as "gray water" as long as it is in the ship. The ship is not allowed to place untreated water into the ballast tanks. So, while this is a "technical" violation, in that the water, by definition, should not have been discharged, it posed absolutely no hazard to the environment. https://www.bradenton.com/news/state/florida/article238937103.html This article states that it was untreated gray water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted January 3, 2020 #138 Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, ummgood said: https://www.bradenton.com/news/state/florida/article238937103.html This article states that it was untreated gray water. Sorry, I can't read the article, because the last time I turned off my adblocker for the Miami Herald article linked above, it corrupted my virus ware, so I won't do it again. However, the "non-sewage" gray water system would be the food disposal system, and this is not allowed to be stored in the ballast tanks without treatment. If these systems had been cross-connected to allow untreated water into the ballast water, the court-appointed monitor and the third party auditors would have found this long ago. These days, even clean ballast water, taken onboard at sea is supposed to be treated before it is discharged. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummgood Posted January 3, 2020 #139 Share Posted January 3, 2020 22 minutes ago, chengkp75 said: Sorry, I can't read the article, because the last time I turned off my adblocker for the Miami Herald article linked above, it corrupted my virus ware, so I won't do it again. However, the "non-sewage" gray water system would be the food disposal system, and this is not allowed to be stored in the ballast tanks without treatment. If these systems had been cross-connected to allow untreated water into the ballast water, the court-appointed monitor and the third party auditors would have found this long ago. These days, even clean ballast water, taken onboard at sea is supposed to be treated before it is discharged. Thanks for the info. Here is their quote: " Gray water is water left over from showers, baths, sinks and laundry facilities. Untreated gray water can contain bacteria, pathogens, oil and grease, detergent and soap residue, metals, solids and nutrients, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. The U.S. prohibits cruise ships from discharging untreated gray water within three miles from land. Carnival Corp. policy prohibits gray water discharges within 12 miles from land. The Intentional Maritime Organization, a United Nations body charged with preventing ocean pollution, does not regulate gray water." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted January 4, 2020 #140 Share Posted January 4, 2020 58 minutes ago, ummgood said: Thanks for the info. Here is their quote: " Gray water is water left over from showers, baths, sinks and laundry facilities. Untreated gray water can contain bacteria, pathogens, oil and grease, detergent and soap residue, metals, solids and nutrients, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. The U.S. prohibits cruise ships from discharging untreated gray water within three miles from land. Carnival Corp. policy prohibits gray water discharges within 12 miles from land. The Intentional Maritime Organization, a United Nations body charged with preventing ocean pollution, does not regulate gray water." This is correct, and I work under these restrictions every day. However, the gray water was stored in ballast tanks, and you cannot store untreated gray water in ballast tanks, because once there is gray water in them, they are no longer ballast tanks, but gray water tanks. Treated gray water, however, while still considered to be gray water, can be stored in ballast tanks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Honolulu Blue Posted January 26, 2020 #141 Share Posted January 26, 2020 I'm bumping this for Taylor Dolven's article in the Miami Herald about the January 8 hearing: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article239089503.html . Judge Seitz remains unhappy and wants more tangible proof of progress. April 24 is the next scheduled hearing. For extra homework, you can read Fabiola Santiago's opinion piece in the Herald from January 15: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/fabiola-santiago/article239246998.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ontheweb Posted January 26, 2020 #142 Share Posted January 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Honolulu Blue said: I'm bumping this for Taylor Dolven's article in the Miami Herald about the January 8 hearing: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article239089503.html . Judge Seitz remains unhappy and wants more tangible proof of progress. April 24 is the next scheduled hearing. For extra homework, you can read Fabiola Santiago's opinion piece in the Herald from January 15: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/fabiola-santiago/article239246998.html I found the first article informative, but the opinion piece I though was overkill. The columnist was all of a sudden speaking of cruisers jumping overboard to commit suicide. Really there are enough problems without literally throwing the kitchen sink at the Carnival Corporation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jimbo5544 Posted January 28, 2020 #143 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Carnival today announced appointment of VP Corporate Communications in ethics and Compliance department in continued rollout. https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/22336-carnival-names-barker-to-vp-post.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jimbo5544 Posted January 29, 2020 #144 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Semi related, and goes to policy changes, NCL has become the first major cruise line to eliminate plastic water bottles. https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/22159-norwegian-becomes-first-major-cruise-line-to-eliminate-plastic-bottles.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Saint Greg Posted January 29, 2020 #145 Share Posted January 29, 2020 10 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said: Semi related, and goes to policy changes, NCL has become the first major cruise line to eliminate plastic water bottles. https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/22159-norwegian-becomes-first-major-cruise-line-to-eliminate-plastic-bottles.html I wonder what they're doing for water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jimbo5544 Posted January 29, 2020 #146 Share Posted January 29, 2020 50 minutes ago, Saint Greg said: I wonder what they're doing for water. Cardboard containers. Only saw one review and was not good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare PrincessArlena'sDad Posted January 29, 2020 #147 Share Posted January 29, 2020 19 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said: Cardboard containers. Only saw one review and was not good. Going on an excursion on hot days... cardboard containers are not going to cut it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jimbo5544 Posted January 29, 2020 #148 Share Posted January 29, 2020 23 minutes ago, PrincessArlena'sDad said: Going on an excursion on hot days... cardboard containers are not going to cut it. Understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray98 Posted January 29, 2020 #149 Share Posted January 29, 2020 What happened to 'save the trees'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jimbo5544 Posted January 29, 2020 #150 Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, ray98 said: What happened to 'save the trees'? Is cardboard the same as plastic towards the environment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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