Zuiderdam prevented from leaving port by protesters

[leerathje]

15 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I've got a few questions.  First, scoboo, how do you know the Master did not raise the ship's security level to MARSEC 2?  This is not something that is announced over the PA along with the afternoon's activities.  Plus, he has wide discretion to implement security measures from the company's ISPS document listed at higher MARSEC levels, without declaring a raised MARSEC level.  Second, as despegue and others have noted, there was no actual attempt to board the vessel, so the vessel's MARSEC level was irrelevant, and the vessel's ISPS only covers security while physically onboard, or when there is an attempt to board.

 

And, I'm a bit confused why the protesters were protesting, since Kiel is bounded by two of the strictest air emission zones in the world.  I understand, from some of the comments quoted in news articles, that they are relying on the "studies" done by a German environmental group that has little scientific basis to the study, but even so, choosing Kiel is ironic.  First, all ships in EU ports must switch to low sulfur diesel fuel while in port, second, Kiel is within the Baltic ECA where all ships must either burn low sulfur diesel fuel or use an exhaust gas scrubber, and the Baltic ECA is bounded by the North Sea ECA which has exactly the same restrictions on ship's emissions and extends north almost to the Faeroe Islands and west to Ushant in France.

 

And, finally, as of 1 January 2020, less than 6 months from now, the worldwide sulfur limit for marine fuels will drop by 86% from 3.5% to 0.5%, which is likely to produce a dramatic negative impact on the oil refining industry in its capability to meet this demand, and a negative impact on world shipping (90% of world commerce, not just cruising) through higher fuel prices, but the world's maritime nations have agreed to this measure, despite any harm to the world's economy.

 

In Vancouver BC, cruise ships plug into shore power...and over 95 percent of BC's generated electricity is hydroelectric.  Our coastal ferries from the BC Mainland to Vancouver Island are now being made as electric or LNG hybrids.

 

[leerathje]

9 hours ago, scubacruiserx2 said:

 

Is that also legal ? 

 

In British Columbia, Canada, where I live, I can tell you that there HAVE been 6 hour closures of a highway by protestors.  It's called a peaceful protest, and yes, it is legal in Canada.

[Hlitner]

42 minutes ago, leerathje said:

 

In British Columbia, Canada, where I live, I can tell you that there HAVE been 6 hour closures of a highway by protestors.  It's called a peaceful protest, and yes, it is legal in Canada.

I guess you have given me another reason I am happy to be an American living south of the Canadian border :).   That being said, we love visiting BC which is an absolutely gorgeous Provence.  

 

Hank

[scubacruiserx2]

2 hours ago, leerathje said:

 

In British Columbia, Canada, where I live, I can tell you that there HAVE been 6 hour closures of a highway by protestors.  It's called a peaceful protest, and yes, it is legal in Canada.

 

Why ? It to restrict peoples freedom to travel or own a car ? That is the stated goal of the cruise protesters - to eliminate cruise ships and cruising . No more cruising  no more cruise critic and the workers that they claim to be helping have no more jobs .

 

https://tkkg.noblogs.org/post/2019/06/09/kreuzfahrtschiff-zuiderdam-in-kiel-blockiert-fuer-urlaub-ohne-ausbeutung-und-umweltzerstoerung

[leerathje]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

I guess you have given me another reason I am happy to be an American living south of the Canadian border :).   That being said, we love visiting BC which is an absolutely gorgeous Provence.  

 

Hank

 

And I have no desire to live south of the 49.  So we're both happy! And BC sure is gorgeous. And I watch HAL (and Princess, and RCL....and...and...) go up to Alaska all summer long, as I live on the inside of Vancouver Island.

[leerathje]

6 minutes ago, scubacruiserx2 said:

 

Why ? It to restrict peoples freedom to travel or own a car ? That is the stated goal of the cruise protesters - to eliminate cruise ships and cruising . No more cruising  no more cruise critic and the workers that they claim to be helping have no more jobs .

 

https://tkkg.noblogs.org/post/2019/06/09/kreuzfahrtschiff-zuiderdam-in-kiel-blockiert-fuer-urlaub-ohne-ausbeutung-und-umweltzerstoerung

 

Sometimes, yes. And there are other ways of improving the carbon footprint of cruise travel. 2020 is coming fast and the emissions will be reduced with the change in oil. And as I said elsewhere, Port of Vancouver requires all cruise ships to plug in. Think if every port required their ships to plug in!  There are changes that can be, and are being made. But cruise lines can be encouraged to move faster.

[Copper10-8]

10 hours ago, Hlitner said:

...........................  In fact, in most US Ports you will often see an armed (with at least one 50 Caliber machine gun) Coast Guard vessel or local police vessel keeping boats at some distance from cruise vessels.   ..............................

 

 

Some trivia for ya! Here's the only USCG small boat you're gonna find with a .50 Cal. onboard. The coasties equip their 25, 29 and 45-foot small and medium response boats, the craft that do the actual escorting of departing cruise ships in some, not all, U.S. ports, with the Belgian-designed (FN-MAG) M240B which uses the 7.62x51mm NATO round, the same cartridge the venerable M14 uses, and quite a bit smaller in size than a .50 cal round. 

 

 

 

 

[Copper10-8]

19 minutes ago, leerathje said:

 

Sometimes, yes. And there are other ways of improving the carbon footprint of cruise travel. 2020 is coming fast and the emissions will be reduced with the change in oil. And as I said elsewhere, Port of Vancouver requires all cruise ships to plug in. Think if every port required their ships to plug in!  There are changes that can be, and are being made. But cruise lines can be encouraged to move faster.

 

Seattle and San Diego have been "plug-in" ports for some years now

[fatcat04]

1 hour ago, leerathje said:

 

Sometimes, yes. And there are other ways of improving the carbon footprint of cruise travel. 2020 is coming fast and the emissions will be reduced with the change in oil. And as I said elsewhere, Port of Vancouver requires all cruise ships to plug in. Think if every port required their ships to plug in!  There are changes that can be, and are being made. But cruise lines can be encouraged to move faster.

An interesting article on shore power and where it is presently being utilized from 2018. 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/19744-shorepower-an-ongoing-debate.html

 

Also a good article from the EPA with an informative map. 

https://www.epa.gov/ports-initiative/shore-power-technology-assessment-us-ports

[Big Hugh]

On 6/10/2019 at 8:00 AM, scubacruiserx2 said:

We are currently casting lines to shore at Terminal 2 in Copenhagen 0800 local time  .

 

 

If you are going to report events please report accurately. I was onboard Zuiderdam when it arrived in Copenhagen yesterday. It did not pull alongside Terminal 2 until 8.55am local time. Mooring work took 15 minutes. I know because I watched it.

The first disembarkation of passengers began at 9.15 am. The second group of passengers to disembark were called to disembark at 9.45am. I know because I was amongst them!

The Zuiderdam was scheduled to arrive in Copenhagen at 7.00am. Having arrived at approximately 9.00 am, it was therefore about 2 hours behind schedule!

One of the problems with these forums it that inaccurate information is often reported. This therefore makes these unreliable as a source of information.

[scubacruiserx2]

14 minutes ago, Big Hugh said:

If you are going to report events please report accurately. I was onboard Zuiderdam when it arrived in Copenhagen yesterday. It did not pull alongside Terminal 2 until 8.55am local time. Mooring work took 15 minutes. I know because I watched it.

The first disembarkation of passengers began at 9.15 am. The second group of passengers to disembark were called to disembark at 9.45am. I know because I was amongst them!

The Zuiderdam was scheduled to arrive in Copenhagen at 7.00am. Having arrived at approximately 9.00 am, it was therefore about 2 hours behind schedule!

One of the problems with these forums it that inaccurate information is often reported. This therefore makes these unreliable as a source of information.

 

Typo .

[horseymike]

this was a disgusting act by these protesters. they should go to jail.

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, fatcat04 said:

An interesting article on shore power and where it is presently being utilized from 2018. 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/19744-shorepower-an-ongoing-debate.html

 

Also a good article from the EPA with an informative map. 

https://www.epa.gov/ports-initiative/shore-power-technology-assessment-us-ports

As noted in the articles, shore power for cruise ships comes with a totally different price tag than for cargo ships.  Cargo ships will use less than 1Mw at 480v, while a single cruise ship will require 7-10Mw at 10,000v, so not only can you power 7-10 cargo ships for the same as one cruise ship, the equipment required (high voltage) is different and more costly.  Shipboard modifications to allow shore power also run in excess of $1 million/ship.

[*Miss G*]

9 hours ago, leerathje said:

 

In British Columbia, Canada, where I live, I can tell you that there HAVE been 6 hour closures of a highway by protestors.  It's called a peaceful protest, and yes, it is legal in Canada.

 

8 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I guess you have given me another reason I am happy to be an American living south of the Canadian border :).   

 

Hank

 

Charlottesville

[Lazz]

Shore power requirement is one of the issues with the proposed modernization/expansion of the Charleston SC. cruise terminal.  What I read and hear is that one side says it is needed to reduce pollution.  Others say cruise line companies say it is more expensive for the ship than running on their generators.  The currently approved project will be heard in the SC Supreme Court.  Only one Carnival ship uses Charleston as its home port.

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, leerathje said:

 

Sometimes, yes. And there are other ways of improving the carbon footprint of cruise travel. 2020 is coming fast and the emissions will be reduced with the change in oil. And as I said elsewhere, Port of Vancouver requires all cruise ships to plug in. Think if every port required their ships to plug in!  There are changes that can be, and are being made. But cruise lines can be encouraged to move faster.

While BC is very fortunate to be able to harness the amount of hydro power they do, that option is not available at all ports, so coal/oil/gas fueled power plants will have to be built to meet the increased demand if all ships are required to go to shore power.

 

Just read an interesting article that says that with the change in sulfur limits to marine fuel coming in 2020, not only will this drive nearly all petroleum prices up, but it will create a glut of the high sulfur residual fuel oil that is the inevitable end product of refining, and this glut will drive its price down, making it more attractive to power plants in third world countries, over other, cleaner fuels.  One of the unintended consequences that sometimes happen when you decide to regulate something.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Lazz said:

Shore power requirement is one of the issues with the proposed modernization/expansion of the Charleston SC. cruise terminal.  What I read and hear is that one side says it is needed to reduce pollution.  Others say cruise line companies say it is more expensive for the ship than running on their generators.  The currently approved project will be heard in the SC Supreme Court.  Only one Carnival ship uses Charleston as its home port.

It mainly depends on the cost of the electricity.  If the ship has a scrubber installed, they can burn low cost residual fuel at the dock, and it may very well be that it is cheaper than the cost of the electricity and the capital cost of the shore power installation on the ship (and any commitment required to defray the cost of the shoreside infrastructure).

[terrydtx]

18 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Just read an interesting article that says that with the change in sulfur limits to marine fuel coming in 2020, not only will this drive nearly all petroleum prices up, but it will create a glut of the high sulfur residual fuel oil that is the inevitable end product of refining, and this glut will drive its price down, making it more attractive to power plants in third world countries, over other, cleaner fuels.  One of the unintended consequences that sometimes happen when you decide to regulate something.

And guess who will buy all the cheap high Sulphur oil they can get, China and India two of the worse  of the worlds polluters. 

[Wehwalt]

19 hours ago, Floridiana said:

It's not the end of the story. According to the Hamburg "Morning Post", the protesters face legal charges.

 

Maybe most Germans think that the accusations against cruise lines hold true, I have not seen a survey, on the other hand cruising is one of the fastest growing industries with TUI continuously building ships for the German market. I have been to the Kiel cruise port. It is busy with ferries, passengers ships and many small pleasure vessels of all kinds. It is protected from the elements at the end of a long fjord.

 

Meaning it is easy to block ... think if a few dozen floating objects with protesters aboard made their way to block the channel at FLL about 4:15 some winter afternoon ... same thing.

 

I strongly doubt it that the Kiel group will face any consequences worth mentioning. 

 

From the standpoint of the snowflakes, we cruisers have few redeeming virtues ... we contribute to "income inequality", we go in big discharging ships to delicate environmental areas like Alaska (where I am now, so I plead guilty too) and our political views are not in accord with theirs, considered as groups. And they can get a big reaction with a relatively small protest, and who will come to our defense? Not to mention they probably do not think much of the working hours and conditions of the crew.

 

Let's say they decided to protest the GWV, with protesters ringing the cruise terminal at each port, harassment and milkshaking and photography of people going ashore, even on excursions, etc. Tour buses blocked by people lying in the road, threats to boycott ports that allow the GWV to call. I'm not sure what could be done.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Wehwalt

[TiogaCruiser]

Looks like the firepower in that pseudo-sabot would cause more propulsion than the dinky motor behind it.

 

[whogo]

We have lived through all this before. I am surprised that so many posters on this thread are unfamiliar with civil disobedience as a form of protest. It was civil disobedience that brought independence to India, it was civil disobedience that helped give women the vote, civil disobedience that ended segregation in the US, and civil disobedience that helped end the draft and the Viet Nam war.

 

To engage in civil disobedience is to risk arrest and imprisonment in a civilized country, or beatings, torture, and extrajudicial murder elsewhere. Civil disobedience is not going away.

[tampatramp]

22 minutes ago, whogo said:

We have lived through all this before. I am surprised that so many posters on this thread are unfamiliar with civil disobedience as a form of protest. It was civil disobedience that brought independence to India, it was civil disobedience that helped give women the vote, civil disobedience that ended segregation in the US, and civil disobedience that helped end the draft and the Viet Nam war.

 

To engage in civil disobedience is to risk arrest and imprisonment in a civilized country, or beatings, torture, and extrajudicial murder elsewhere. Civil disobedience is not going away.

 

You are absolutely right. Here's another fact: there are over a hundred cruise ships being built (see some here- https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=167 ) . Cruising is not going away!  happy cruising!

[fatcat04]

1 hour ago, TiogaCruiser said:

Looks like the firepower in that pseudo-sabot would cause more propulsion than the dinky motor behind it.

 

I thought the same thing. That would be a pretty pricey propulsion method and not too environmentally friendly lol!!! 🤣

[Wehwalt]

1 hour ago, whogo said:

We have lived through all this before. I am surprised that so many posters on this thread are unfamiliar with civil disobedience as a form of protest. It was civil disobedience that brought independence to India, it was civil disobedience that helped give women the vote, civil disobedience that ended segregation in the US, and civil disobedience that helped end the draft and the Viet Nam war.

 

To engage in civil disobedience is to risk arrest and imprisonment in a civilized country, or beatings, torture, and extrajudicial murder elsewhere. Civil disobedience is not going away.

Between the very real risk of something untoward happening to you in 1962, and today's pre-arranged protest with hot and cold running lawyers and no actual consequences, not even a criminal conviction, there is a difference.

[Seavoyage]

These so called "climate warriors" have grandiose delusions of shutting down the cruise industry.  #nutjobs

 

 Behold a quote from one of its 'warriors'🙄

"We [will] no longer allow Pacific states to sink into the sea because holidaymakers lie in the pool and meanwhile want to travel from city to city," one group member, named only as Johanna, explained. "We will not tolerate the operation and certainly a further expansion of cruises."

https://www.newsweek.com/zuiderdam-cruise-ship-trapped-port-climate-change-activists-kiel-germany-1443051

 

It's just amazing these psychotic individuals were able to get so close the the hull of the Zuiderdam and even hang off her ropes.  Obviously all unstable - angry - dangerous individuals testing the waters - if they were able to paste a 10 foot banner on the side of the ship - what could their next move be? A 💣? Wake up - HAL.  SECURITY NOW!