Toddler Death Law Suit Update

[Junkhouse]

News organizations are very dishonest.  A couple report that the GF dropped her while most give a false narrative that she fell. He pleaded guilty and they are still trying to persuade the public that she just fell.

[BND]

10 hours ago, BSocial said:

“This decision was an incredibly difficult one for Sam and the family, but because the plea agreement includes no jail time and no admission of facts, it was decided the plea deal is in the best interests of the family so that they can close this horrible chapter and turn their focus to mourning Chloe and fighting for cruise passenger safety by raising awareness about the need for all common carriers to adhere to window fall prevention laws designed to protect children from falling from windows," a statement from maritime attorney Michael Winkleman of Lipcon, Margulies, Alsina & Winkleman P.A says.”

 

from link post 1661 above.   Still trying to find fault with the ship

Yeah, here we go again.  "window fall prevention laws designed to protect children from falling from windows".  How about a new law stating you can't pick a child up and hold them out an open window? 

[alfaeric]

8 hours ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

I've had speeding tickets with more harsh penalties.

 

No one was killed.

No one was hurt.

No property was damaged.

 

I may have killed a few bugs on my helmet or windshield. Anello killed a human child.

Totally agree.

 

I know someone who made a bad choice and killed someone when he was drunk- and he served time. 

 

I really don't see justice for the little girl.

 

And it would sicken me if the family profited from the death of their child due to the grandfather who just pleaded guilty of homicide of that child.

[dodgestang]

11 hours ago, BSocial said:

With the plea deal, what does Guilty “with no admission of facts” mean?

 

 

 

It means its the lawyers driving the boat 😉

 

Without any facts entered into the record in the criminal trial it is harder for a summary motion to dismiss in the civil case.  They want to get this in front of a sympathetic jury in civil court 

[TNcruising02]

11 hours ago, uksaint said:

 

If he has any sort of conscience - then he will suffer a lifelong penalty far worse than any court could impose.

In one of his interviews, he was asked what his low point was.  He said he hadn't hit it.  I thought, "Really?!"  I mean, wouldn't the low point be when you realize you just dropped your granddaughter to her death?  That tells me that in his mind his low point will involve himself.  Just my opinion.

[dodgestang]

3 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

In one of his interviews, he was asked what his low point was.  He said he hadn't hit it.  I thought, "Really?!"  I mean, wouldn't the low point be when you realize you just dropped your granddaughter to her death?  That tells me that in his mind his low point will involve himself.  Just my opinion.

 

The low point in anyone's life comes not during the act itself but in the self realization at some point past the act that (as Led Zepplin puts it)....Its nobody's fault but mine.  Since he very obviously still has people in his ear telling him it wasn't his fault and working to get financial compensation as evidence of that fact....he may never bottom out and be allowed to learn/grow as a human from the experience.

Edited February 26, 2020 by dodgestang

[Barnkitty]

1 hour ago, JennyB1977 said:

 

2) I rewatched part of the NBC interview with the Wiegands. She, Kim, says she saw a Anello by the wall of windows screaming he thought there was glass. But the doctor has said the Anello was immediately taken from the area so he wouldn’t see the family. Those two statements don’t lineup.

 

 I read that at the time it happened also... all sources said that originally all Anello said was 'I dropped her," "I dropped my baby." The doctor was down on the pier running to the baby, he couldn't have heard anything Anello said up on the 11th Deck. The family was separated for questioning.  After the family got back together, the story changed to "I thought there was glass." Several days laer, it beecame "I am color-blind so I couldn't see there was no glass."

 

I wonder if there is eye-witness testimony that just hasn't been released yet? And in Anello's deposition for RC, all they have to ask is "Did you plead guilty to negligent homicide in the death of Chloe Wiegand?" And it should be over and done with.

[TNcruising02]

10 hours ago, brillohead said:

He's not going to stand up in court and say that he knew the window was open when he picked up the baby and put her over the railing.

If he admitted that he knew the window was open, then the parents have no excuse to carry on with their lawsuit, which is based on the fact that there was no sign warning people that the windows could be open.

 

I am sure Royal will call him as a witness in the civil case and he will have to give a deposition.  They will probably ask him to explain what he was doing and thinking in those 30 seconds he held her on the widow ledge.  I don't think he can plead the Fifth since he will already have been convicted in the criminal case.

[Midwestgal]

28 minutes ago, dodgestang said:

 

It means its the lawyers driving the boat 😉

 

Without any facts entered into the record in the criminal trial it is harder for a summary motion to dismiss in the civil case.  They want to get this in front of a sympathetic jury in civil court 

Right, they are following whatever they are told to do, this includes speaking and doing.

 

[TNcruising02]

6 minutes ago, dodgestang said:

 

The low point in anyone's life comes not during the act itself but in the self realization at some point past the act that (as Led Zepplin puts it)....Its nobody's fault but mine.  Since he very obviously still has people in his ear telling him it wasn't his fault and working to get financial compensation as evidence of that fact....he may never bottom out and be allowed to learn/grow as a human from the experience.

Shouldn't the low point be when she died?  Her death should have been the low point, regardless of how she died.

[dodgestang]

1 minute ago, TNcruising02 said:

Shouldn't the low point be when she died?  Her death should have been the low point, regardless of how she died.

 

It is a  low point....but not the lowest/bottom you can get.  Emotions are a weird thing.  If you mentally are not accepting of your responsibility than you have not reached bottom and able to start rebuilding.  Instead you are stuck in that moment lashing out and pointing fingers trying to assign blame and responsibility and anyone other than yourself.  Its far more torturous and perhaps more an apt punishment for the crime.

[TNcruising02]

3 minutes ago, dodgestang said:

 

It is a  low point....but not the lowest/bottom you can get.  Emotions are a weird thing.  If you mentally are not accepting of your responsibility than you have not reached bottom and able to start rebuilding.  Instead you are stuck in that moment lashing out and pointing fingers trying to assign blame and responsibility and anyone other than yourself.  Its far more torturous and perhaps more an apt punishment for the crime.

"
Still, that tells me his low point involves his own feelings and not the life of his granddaughter. My lowest points in life never involved things that happened to me.

Edited February 26, 2020 by TNcruising02

[uksaint]

2 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Shouldn't the low point be when she died?  Her death should have been the low point, regardless of how she died.

 

At the time of any tragic incident you experience shock, anger, possibly fear of retribution and many other emotions that do not enable true reflection. In this instance, Anello also has a complete circus being created by lawyers trying to absolve him/ minimise his responsibility, and creating a distorted view of what really happened.

 

It is not unusual for the 'low point' to come many months or even years after the event, and can be triggered by anything that causes one to reflect and remember the events of the tragedy and the pain and loss can overwhelm. 

 

If Anello is able to convince himself that he is not at fault, and he retains the support of the family then maybe he can escape such a low - but I suspect that may not be the case.

 

[TNcruising02]

I think his guilty plea is due to the video footage proof that he held her on the window ledge so long.

[TNcruising02]

1 minute ago, uksaint said:

 

At the time of any tragic incident you experience shock, anger, possibly fear of retribution and many other emotions that do not enable true reflection. In this instance, Anello also has a complete circus being created by lawyers trying to absolve him/ minimise his responsibility, and creating a distorted view of what really happened.

 

It is not unusual for the 'low point' to come many months or even years after the event, and can be triggered by anything that causes one to reflect and remember the events of the tragedy and the pain and loss can overwhelm. 

 

If Anello is able to convince himself that he is not at fault, and he retains the support of the family then maybe he can escape such a low - but I suspect that may not be the case.

 

But up to the point of the interview, there should have been a lowest point.  I understand that in the future he may sink lower, but when the interviewer asked the question, Anello said he hadn't hit it. To me, that meant that he felt his lowest point has yet to come.  And to me, that meant his lowest point will be what ends up happening to him.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

15 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

I am sure Royal will call him as a witness in the civil case and he will have to give a deposition.  They will probably ask him to explain what he was doing and thinking in those 30 seconds he held her on the widow ledge.  I don't think he can plead the Fifth since he will already have been convicted in the criminal case.

I don't think he can plead the Fifth because it's a civil case.  And he's already been convicted, so I don't even know if, during the deposition he said "Yes, I held her outside the window and intentionally dropped her" if it could be used against him.  I would assume double jeopardy rules would apply. 

[TNcruising02]

1 minute ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

I don't think he can plead the Fifth because it's a civil case.  And he's already been convicted, so I don't even know if, during the deposition he said "Yes, I held her outside the window and intentionally dropped her" if it could be used against him.  I would assume double jeopardy rules would apply. 

People can plead the Fifth in a civil case, but since he will have already been convicted then he should be compelled to answer the questions since nothing he states can be held against him in a criminal case.

[uksaint]

3 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

But up to the point of the interview, there should have been a lowest point.  I understand that in the future he may sink lower, but when the interviewer asked the question, Anello said he hadn't hit it. To me, that meant that he felt his lowest point has yet to come.  And to me, that meant his lowest point will be what ends up happening to him.

 

Ok - I think I see what you mean. When asked the question an expected response might have been  'I have just lost my granddaughter, I can't get much lower than that'.  The way he responded does, I suppose' seem odd in the cold light of day.

[TNcruising02]

2 minutes ago, uksaint said:

 

Ok - I think I see what you mean. When asked the question an expected response might have been  'I have just lost my granddaughter, I can't get much lower than that'.  The way he responded does, I suppose' seem odd in the cold light of day.

Exactly.  He didn't consider the loss of the granddaughter he supposably loved to be his lowest point.  I think he knew that he was responsible and he knew that when the truth came out, everyone would know and that would be HIS lowest point.

Edited February 26, 2020 by TNcruising02

[KelSny1011]

Now that the GF has taken a plea deal, could this be settled outside of court?

[cgolf1]

The thing I don’t understand is the parents goal of suing to make cruise ships safer for kids. If this were a common occurrence I would agree, but to my knowledge this is the first time a child has been dropped off a ship like this. Guessing if someone did the math the percentage of this happening is well below 0.25%. 
 

The lifeguards at pools, good change, this was just a lapse in judgement accident. 

[Lionesss]

Fox news APP has a nice summary.  Not like we haven't read it all here, but just saying.

 

Safe travels.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

16 minutes ago, KelSny1011 said:

Now that the GF has taken a plea deal, could this be settled outside of court?

This could have been settled outside of court before the plea deal.  RCI isn't interested in settling (at least that's what it appears). 

[grapau27]

45 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

I think his guilty plea is due to the video footage proof that he held her on the window ledge so long.

He might read cruise critic.

[grapau27]

40 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Exactly.  He didn't consider the loss of the granddaughter he supposably loved to be his lowest point.  I think he knew that he was responsible and he knew that when the truth came out, everyone would know and that would be HIS lowest point.

He also supposedly refused sedation afterwards but Chloe's parent's accepted sedation.