Toddler Death Law Suit Update

[BND]

24 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

A plea (or a verdict) in a criminal trial is inadmissible in a civil trial (see OJ Simpson)

But, obviously the evidence against him was enough to get a guilty plea deal.  I think the evidence RCI can show overwhelmingly shows his negligence and that RCI had none.  The only reason the lawyer took the case is he thinks he can get a settlement from the big bad corporation, but hopefully RCI stands their ground. 

 

As for OJ, we all know he was guilty.  He basically admitted it in his book that he lost to the families because he knew he couldn't be prosecuted again for the same crime. The civil suit actually showed his culpability.  The criminal trial was just criminal in the entire way it was handled.

[Two Wheels Only]

2 hours ago, mjkacmom said:

I don’t think the grandfather meant any harm, it was a very stupid horrible brain fart moment that resulted in the death of a little girl, a tragedy, that I’m sure he has relived over and over again.

 

Which version is he reliving? The actual version that can be seen on video or the alternate version that he and Winkleman have put forth to the media?

 

 

[not-enough-cruising]

42 minutes ago, BND said:

But, obviously the evidence against him was enough to get a guilty plea deal.  I think the evidence RCI can show overwhelmingly shows his negligence and that RCI had none.  The only reason the lawyer took the case is he thinks he can get a settlement from the big bad corporation, but hopefully RCI stands their ground. 

 

As for OJ, we all know he was guilty.  He basically admitted it in his book that he lost to the families because he knew he couldn't be prosecuted again for the same crime. The civil suit actually showed his culpability.  The criminal trial was just criminal in the entire way it was handled.

I could not agree more, I was just replying to the poster that stated a guilty plea would make the civil case go away, and it will not  

[Ocean Boy]

1 hour ago, boscobeans said:

????????????????? 

I guess my sarcasm didn't come across. My thought was what would the grandfather have to apologize for when the family is blaming the whole incident on RCI.

[The_Big_M]

3 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

I don't think that anyone would argue against that point.

 

He may not have intended it to begin with, but to go on this charade and drag on the anguish just causes more harm.

[Ashland]

6 minutes ago, The_Big_M said:

 

He may not have intended it to begin with, but to go on this charade and drag on the anguish just causes more harm.

The reason for "going on" is $$$$'s for the family but mostly the attorney.

I hope RCI takes this case to end and makes no offer of settlement.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

28 minutes ago, Ashland said:

The reason for "going on" is $$$$'s for the family but mostly the attorney.

I hope RCI takes this case to end and makes no offer of settlement.

Totally agree. RCI did nothing wrong. 

[Junkhouse]

What this incident should remind us that life can be taken in a blink of an eye and if only one moment in time was changed, Chloe would be alive.  Just makes us wonder how many past incidents we have lived through could have turned out terribly wrong if one little thing was changed.  Remember the mom left Chloe with grandpa because she had to take care of something at customer service.  I am not blaming her just that a lot of things had to align for this to happen.

 

The law suite should go away, but it won't because all is it about now is money and making someone pay for the misfortune I caused all by myself.

[Baron Barracuda]

2 hours ago, PelicanBill said:

 

I believe his lawyer said "take the deal" because the photos of him leaning out the window BEFORE dropping his granddaughter means his defense of "I didn't know the window was open" is going to be rejected by any reasonable jury in a criminal trial.

 

I really hope Royal Caribbean takes the civil suit to trial and doesn't settle. Unfortunately these almost always settle.  But the idea that Cruise lines can be held negligent for people circumventing railings and window height or unsupervised children has to stop.

 

I was foreman of a civil suit seeking to determine damages based on negligence.  The instructions to the jury would be to assign % of responsibility to any party identified in the suit. Probably RCL and Grandfather here. You ask what would a reasonable person do?  If 100 grandfathers were watching their grandchildren is it reasonable that many of them would be confused and hold the child OUT the window?  I believe a jury needs to find 100% fault or close to it with the grandfather.  Let's say the jury chooses 90% grandfather 10% RCL. Then the jury determines what the damages should be. Let's say they choose $1M.  That means RCL would be out $100K plus the trial costs.  Or would they offer $500K to make it all go away?

 

How about Freedom carrying 3600 passengers x 52 weeks x 16 years with only one falling through window.  That's 1 out of 2,995,200 or 0.000033%

[Another_Critic]

5 hours ago, PelicanBill said:

Let's say the jury chooses 90% grandfather 10% RCL. Then the jury determines what the damages should be. Let's say they choose $1M.  That means RCL would be out $100K plus the trial costs.  Or would they offer $500K to make it all go away?

 

In your example, shouldn't RCL only be responsible for 10% of the trial costs?  Or are you referring to their legal counsel costs?

[njkruzer]

23 minutes ago, Another_Critic said:

 

In your example, shouldn't RCL only be responsible for 10% of the trial costs?  Or are you referring to their legal counsel costs?

In the US, in most cases, each party pays their own legal expenses. 

[rcclmiami]

I think RCI should countersue for court costs. If he plead guilty, then he takes responsibility for his actions. The video even shows he knew before he picked her up that the window was open. RCI did nothing wrong.

[Ashland]

1 hour ago, njkruzer said:

In the US, in most cases, each party pays their own legal expenses. 

Not necessarily 

[njkruzer]

37 minutes ago, Ashland said:

Not necessarily 

Unless suing under a law that grants the winner to recap fees, in most cases, especially personal injury cases such as this one, each party pays their own fees.  Believe me, I had clients who wished the other party would have paid my fees when we won.  In many countries around the world loser pays.  Not the norm here.

[atanac]

If Anello had fallen on his sword from the beginning admitting he was totally to blame

everyone here would have extended their condolences. I know I would have forgiven

him and wished him whatever peace he could find in the rest of his life.

 

Instead he is viewed as a villian and self serving money grubbing fool accepting no responsibility.

[jtwind]

I believe that the family expected a quick out of court settlement.  If they got that settlement, they would have been able to use that to help convince the grandfather that it wasn't his fault.

[TNcruising02]

While I don't believe the grandfather meant any harm to come to the toddler, his actions put her life in danger.   No reasonable person would have held a toddler at the top of an open window at that angle.  Then he lied about knowing the window was open.  Had he just apologized and admitted that he made a horrible mistake, that's one thing.  But lying about his actions showed that even he knew that his actions were wrong.  It's fortunate there was a video that showed the truth.

Anyway, it's sad for everyone.  If I was on the jury for the civil case, I would not hold RCL liable.


 

[Ocean Boy]

Imagine what RCI would have been up against if they didn't have video cameras all over the place.

[fava]

Updating this topic after 2 years.

 

In July of 2021 a Judge tossed out the lawsuit and stated that the grandfather was responsible for the death of the child, not the cruise line.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/royal-caribbean-not-responsible-2019-death-toddler-chloe-wiegand-judge-n1273899

 

The family has appealed.

Edited October 31, 2022 by fava

[shipgeeks]

Every cruise I have been on this year, I can't help but notice that the light green window is different from the clarity of an open window, and a green window on top of another green window is absolutely obvious next to an open window.  I'm sad every time I walk through pool deck.

[Starry Eyes]

19 minutes ago, shipgeeks said:

Every cruise I have been on this year, I can't help but notice that the light green window is different from the clarity of an open window, and a green window on top of another green window is absolutely obvious next to an open window.  I'm sad every time I walk through pool deck.

Same here.

[SherriZ366]

2 hours ago, fava said:

Updating this topic after 2 years.

 

In July of 2021 a Judge tossed out the lawsuit and stated that the grandfather was responsible for the death of the child, not the cruise line.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/royal-caribbean-not-responsible-2019-death-toddler-chloe-wiegand-judge-n1273899

 

The family has appealed.

Is the appeal still pending?

[fava]

1 hour ago, SherriZ366 said:

Is the appeal still pending?

As far as I was able to tell. Yes

[njkruzer]

5 minutes ago, fava said:

As far as I was able to tell. Yes

Glad Royal is fighting it.