Is anything in life ever really free?

[AL3XCruise]

10 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

In 1988 I wrote a book .My publisher gave me 500 copies that I gave away for FREE to co workers,friends,relatives,neighbors and strangers on streets.When the book went into second printing a few years later I gave FREE copies to people on cruises as well as strangers on streets.

 Depending on the quality of your writing, those books may have still come with a cost ;).

 

12 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

I fully agree with you.  'Free' things are more appropriately called 'included'.  Even all of those 'free' things listed in this article have costs.

I found it amusing how the the article explains that what people perceive as free actually aren't.  It then lists a number of things people perceive as free but actually aren't claiming they are actually free.

Edited January 19, 2020 by AL3XCruise

[sverigecruiser]

9 hours ago, leaveitallbehind said:

The amount you paid for Yacht Club to get the drink package more than paid for those you had outside of Yacht Club......so no, they weren't "free".  Besides, what difference would it make if you drank them only when you were in the Yacht Club versus when you happened to be out of the club and came across a bar - they were still paid for by your package.  

 

When I "signed my contract" with MSC and agreed to a price for the cruise the drinks outside the Yacht Club wasn't included. A few months later they told me that the drinks outside the Yacht Club should also be included and my feeling is that they gave me thoose drinks for free even, as I said,  if I know that  my feeling may not be correct.

 

The difference is that if I should order a drink outside the Yacht Club before they changed the rules for the package I would have to pay for it but when the changed the rules I didn't have to pay for it.

[SRF]

10 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

To bring the discussion back to travel, I agree sometimes you can get caught up in the "value for money" equation. Sometimes it's healthy to step back and think about things like what vacations can do for your overall health: for your body (relieve stress, for example) and your mind (stimulate you to learn new things, keeping your brain healthy).

 

 

That IS part of value for money.

[davecttr]

Hopefully the air I breathe is free, most of the time!

[SRF]

1 hour ago, davecttr said:

Hopefully the air I breathe is free, most of the time!

 

Have you ever been scuba diving?  😄

 

[lenquixote66]

11 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Lending libraries will change a lot if/when ebook copyright and other protection issues are resolved.  All my opinion of course.    

Unfortunately that is probably true.I became unemployed because of the internet.I was working for a company 25 years and the company President decided that humans could not work as fast as computers so they said bye bye Lenny as well as other employees.

[lenquixote66]

10 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

My writing would be brilliant, if only people could read my mind!   😀😀😀

If you really think you have something to say put it to paper.I never wanted to make a living from writing but I believed that people would be interested in what I had to say.

I was published by a “small press” .My book was in paperback,never hard cover but over the years people found copies in used book stores in NYC,Chicago and Los Angeles .The books were being sold for $1.00.Now for some strange reason Amazon is selling signed copies for $27.00 .A rare book dealer in NY is also selling copies for the same price.I would like to contact them and ask what makes the book worth that much and identify myself as the author but I fear that they might pull the book.I do not want anyone to pay to read it but I do like going on line and seeing my name .

[navybankerteacher]

6 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

Unfortunately that is probably true.I became unemployed because of the internet.I was working for a company 25 years and the company President decided that humans could not work as fast as computers so they said bye bye Lenny as well as other employees.

Of course, this pattern has been going on for centuries:  flint arrowhead knappers lost their employment long ago, more recently buggy-whip makers were let go, then typewriter repairmen saw their field dry up.

[lenquixote66]

10 hours ago, AL3XCruise said:

 Depending on the quality of your writing, those books may have still come with a cost ;).

 

I found it amusing how the the article explains that what people perceive as free actually aren't.  It then lists a number of things people perceive as free but actually aren't claiming they are actually free.

I believe that I am a good writer.I have had short stories published in very well known publications and my poetry has appeared in over 200 publications over the past 50 years.I have written non fiction as well.

[lenquixote66]

3 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course, this pattern has been going on for centuries:  flint arrowhead knappers lost their employment long ago, more recently buggy-whip makers were let go, then typewriter repairmen saw their field dry up.

Yes,I know that. Over a period of 6 years about 50 people from the company I worked for lost their jobs because of automation including a guy who commuted every day from Hartford,CT to Manhattan.

[leaveitallbehind]

13 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

That presumes that she paid for the Yacht Club as a way to get drinks, but perhaps she paid for the YC for the other benefits, irrespective of the drinks. 

Either way the cost of the beverage package is part of the Yacht Club fare, which is a significant premium over the non YC pricing.  So whether they would have any drinks or not, they are still being paid for as part of the YC fare.

Edited January 19, 2020 by leaveitallbehind

[isosika]

Some time ago I booked a cruise for 14 days to the Caribbean leaving February 2nd, next month.  It came with "free" gratuities, free upgrade, and free something else - that I don't recall.  However, it turns out that this is Super Bowl weekend in Miami and pre-cruise lodging was not to be found, or if you could you couldn't afford it.  So, I moved the cruise to the next sailing February 16th.  When doing so I lost the 3 free items that came with the first cruise.  However, the cruise line generously gave me about $500 of OBC for losing the "free" items.

 

I have also booked a 14 day cruise for 2021 but no free items were included with this cruise.  However, in watching the various promotions I noted that this cruise was now covered for free items, for new bookings only.  I compared the price that I paid for the cruise vs what it now costs and found that the price went up $400pp.  I would imagine that for a cruise that far out this increase must have been made to pay for the "free" items and not because the cruise was getting near full.

[leaveitallbehind]

6 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

When I "signed my contract" with MSC and agreed to a price for the cruise the drinks outside the Yacht Club wasn't included. A few months later they told me that the drinks outside the Yacht Club should also be included and my feeling is that they gave me thoose drinks for free even, as I said,  if I know that  my feeling may not be correct.

 

The difference is that if I should order a drink outside the Yacht Club before they changed the rules for the package I would have to pay for it but when the changed the rules I didn't have to pay for it.

I understand that and get the whole YC concept. My point is that with the premium paid for YC and that drink package you should be able to use it anywhere on the ship.   Having to charge outside of YC makes that privilege even more costly for the YC members who venture outside. So if by permitting you to also drink outside the YC as a change is seen as "free" so be it.  But IMO, as mentioned before, the premium paid for YC should have that well covered.

 

Also just my opinion, but that makes the YC premium even more notable as that would restrict where you can get your included drinks, whereas most other cruise lines drink packages cover drinks anywhere on the ship.  The only restriction with others is that the suite areas are typically restricted from the non-suite guests so they can't enjoy drinks there.  But the suite guests can enjoy them anywhere on the ship with their package. 

[lenquixote66]

Nothing is ever really free on a cruise ship .The cruise lines that constantly advertise offering free shore excursions,etc are not free.

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, leaveitallbehind said:

the premium paid for YC should have that well covered.

 

 

But it didn't when I booked the cruise.

[leaveitallbehind]

1 hour ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

But it didn't when I booked the cruise.

I guess I see it differently.  From the ship's perspective, a drink is a drink regardless of where it is served.  The premium you paid for the drinks in YC would cover the same amount of drinks consumed there or anywhere on the ship.  So for them to only allow the package in YC is actually very restrictive, and to charge more to drink elsewhere makes that package very unattractive compared to most packages on other lines IMO.

 

I get that they expanded the package to cover the outside bars after you purchased it, but my point is the cost of it in YC would cover that anyway as it is unlimited drinks.  You have your view - I have mine.  The bottom line is IMO you paid for it with your YC package and nothing is free. 

[Joebucks]

2 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

But it didn't when I booked the cruise.

 

What is it that you are trying to prove here? That the package you paid for drinks now lets you walk through a few doors and get the same benefit?

 

You're still completely missing the point. They are not free. MSC enhanced the convenience for you. That is what companies often do with high-margin items. At best, they enhanced the value for you. That's not off the wall either. They are not free. Because the difference between that option, and not having it, is a big difference in MONEY.

[sverigecruiser]

3 hours ago, leaveitallbehind said:

I guess I see it differently.  From the ship's perspective, a drink is a drink regardless of where it is served.  The premium you paid for the drinks in YC would cover the same amount of drinks consumed there or anywhere on the ship.  So for them to only allow the package in YC is actually very restrictive, and to charge more to drink elsewhere makes that package very unattractive compared to most packages on other lines IMO.

 

I get that they expanded the package to cover the outside bars after you purchased it, but my point is the cost of it in YC would cover that anyway as it is unlimited drinks.  You have your view - I have mine.  The bottom line is IMO you paid for it with your YC package and nothing is free. 

 

I really understand how you see it. For me this thread is a not too serious thread about what is free and what is not .

 

Maybe from the ships perspective a drink is a drink regardless of where it is served but the agreement I did with MSC when I booked the cruise was that I would have to pay for drinks outside the Yacht Club but MSC decided to give me thoose drinks "for free", or whatever we shall call.

 

Maybe they were not free but my vacation become cheaper when MSC decided that I didn't had to pay anything extra for the drinks! 

[sanger727]

5 hours ago, leaveitallbehind said:

The bottom line is IMO you paid for it with your YC package and nothing is free. 

absolutely nothing on a cruise ship is free. Even if you get your cruise fare for free they are banking on u ‘paying’ for it by spending onboard. Discussing free or not free in regards to cruising is pointless. Your cruise fare equates to certain inclusions on the ship; a certain room type, in a certain location, with access to certain dining room meals, and potentially access to extra like drinks and what not. It certainly would feel nice to pay for a certain set of inclusions and to find out later you got extra inclusions that you hadn’t planned on getting. It increases the perceived value for what you paid. But discussing free vs not free is meaningless.

 

now libraries; are a bit different. You have to pay taxes. Taxes fund schools, roads, libraries, etc. So you must pay by law whether you plan to use or not. I don’t have kids but still have to pay taxes to fund the schools so your kids can go for ‘free’. So yes, I will take advantage of the ‘free’ public libraries that people who don’t use pay to subsidize. But vacations are completely different. No one is forced by law to pay for a cruise.

Edited January 20, 2020 by sanger727

[sverigecruiser]

11 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

What is it that you are trying to prove here? That the package you paid for drinks now lets you walk through a few doors and get the same benefit?

 

You're still completely missing the point. They are not free. MSC enhanced the convenience for you. That is what companies often do with high-margin items. At best, they enhanced the value for you. That's not off the wall either. They are not free. Because the difference between that option, and not having it, is a big difference in MONEY.

 

I'm not trying to prove anything but my point is that the package I had included in my fare when I booked the cruise didn't had the drinks outside the YC included but they later included them so they gave me more things without having to pay more. Maybe that is not a free thing but I didn't had to pay for the drinks outside the YC even if I agreed to do it when I booked the cruise.

[leaveitallbehind]

8 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I'm not trying to prove anything but my point is that the package I had included in my fare when I booked the cruise didn't had the drinks outside the YC included but they later included them so they gave me more things without having to pay more. Maybe that is not a free thing but I didn't had to pay for the drinks outside the YC even if I agreed to do it when I booked the cruise.

Well then maybe it is more a matter of value. The original YC package only allowed for drinks in the YC and had an additional charge for those outside YC, which means the significant YC premium you paid only provided for some drinks to be included but similar others to have a separate charge.  

 

Since most cruise lines drink packages - whether it is through their suite program or on an individual purchase basis - provide drinks at any venue on the ship, not only is your original package very restrictive, it also is of a far lesser value than those of competitive cruise lines. Yet you are paying a similar premium to others for that limited benefit. 

 

What is more likely the case is MSC recognized the disparity they had with other lines for whose business they were competing and changed the plan to be more similar in value to their competition.  IMO it isn't so much that you are now getting an enhanced benefit at n/c as you are receiving a similar benefit as you would have elsewhere at a similar charge. If it were me and I were aware of that, I would have been upset had they not done that.....

 

In any case it is a matter of perception and I'm only trying to offer a different point of view with that. Enjoy your cruising!

Edited January 20, 2020 by leaveitallbehind

[sverigecruiser]

13 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

Since most cruise lines drink packages - whether it is through their suite program or on an individual purchase basis - provide drinks at any venue on the ship, not only is your original package very restrictive, it also is of a far lesser value than those of competitive cruise lines. Yet you are paying a similar premium to others for that limited benefit. 

 

What is more likely the case is MSC recognized the disparity they had with other lines for whose business they were competing and changed the plan to be more similar in value to their competition.  IMO it isn't so much that you are now getting an enhanced benefit at n/c as you are receiving a similar benefit as you would have elsewhere at a similar charge. If it were me and I were aware of that, I would have been upset had they not done that.....

 

In any case it is a matter of perception and I'm only trying to offer a different point of view with that. Enjoy your cruising!

 

But it's not correct that I'm paying a similar premium because the suites are so much cheaper on MSC than on many other lines.

 

As for similar benefits elsewhere that isn't completely correct either. Yes now the drinks are included everywhere but the drinks package for the YC include things not included on every other line. For example bottled water, the minibar, drinks delivered to the cabin and the cheapest Champagne. Not every line include thoose things in their packages.

 

It's always interesting to get someone elses point of view. Enjoy your cruising too!   

 

[leaveitallbehind]

1 hour ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

But it's not correct that I'm paying a similar premium because the suites are so much cheaper on MSC than on many other lines.

 

As for similar benefits elsewhere that isn't completely correct either. Yes now the drinks are included everywhere but the drinks package for the YC include things not included on every other line. For example bottled water, the minibar, drinks delivered to the cabin and the cheapest Champagne. Not every line include thoose things in their packages.

 

It's always interesting to get someone elses point of view. Enjoy your cruising too!   

 

 

I would disagree with your first comment and will add that the days of YC deals are diminishing rapidly, if not gone altogether.  But that is another debate.

 

I also - from direct prior knowledge and first hand experience just two weeks ago - disagree with your second comment in that bottled water, minibar (where applicable to a stateroom), higher level of bar drinks, juices, specialty coffees, etc., are all included in many other lines packages.  YC has not at all cornered that market!

 

 

 

 

[sverigecruiser]

50 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

 

I would disagree with your first comment and will add that the days of YC deals are diminishing rapidly, if not gone altogether.  But that is another debate.

 

 

 

I booked a cruise on MSC Seashore for July 2021 two weeks ago. I also looked to see how much Norwegian Epic would cost and it was more than $2000 more.

[sverigecruiser]

54 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

 

I also - from direct prior knowledge and first hand experience just two weeks ago - disagree with your second comment in that bottled water, minibar (where applicable to a stateroom), higher level of bar drinks, juices, specialty coffees, etc., are all included in many other lines packages.  YC has not at all cornered that market!

 

 

I said that not every line include all thoose things, not that MSC is the only line that does.

 

I don't think that the "free" beverage package NCL offer (which defenitely is NOT free!) include any of the things I mentioned but they may have a more expensive package which does. (I say think because the only knowledge I have about it is what I have seen on the NCL board.)