Carnival Corporation Arrogance

[tcc8v]

I just called Holland America about the Feb. 29 Westerdam cruise.  They offered a credit that can be applied to any 2020 cruise.  They should simply refund all moneys paid for any Asian cruises this spring.

 

The Carnival Corporation (this includes both Princess and Holland America) is the typhoid Mary of the corona virus epidemic.  According to CNN there are 318 total cases of corona virus WORLDWIDE outside of China, 61 of which are on the Diamond Princess.  To put it another way, except for the Diamond Princess, Japan has 25 cases FROM ALL SOURCES, South Korea has 24 and even Hong Kong has 24.  The Diamond Princess is a disaster without parallel outside of China.  How can we have confidence, despite all the Carnival Corporation assurances, that they can control this epidemic on any of their ships?

 

The arrogance of the Carnival Corporation is unbelievable.  It is time that they ate a big portion of humble pie.

 

We have considerable power to influence corporate behavior.  I have never used social media (Twitter, Facebook, etc.), but it is time for us to use them.  I am going to step into the social media sphere this afternoon.

[CruiserBruce]

Everyone is an expert on what others should do...

[summer slope]

5 minutes ago, tcc8v said:

The Carnival Corporation (this includes both Princess and Holland America) is the typhoid Mary of the corona virus epidemic. 

Really?

[AncientWanderer]

My view is that it's pay now or pay later.  Cruise ships really are a perfect distributor of germs as they go from port to port.  It probably would behoove the cruise lines to pull back sailings now so that they have a successful future.  But they won't.  For corporations it's all about the present.  Kick the can down the road.

[panoramaofthepast]

16 minutes ago, tcc8v said:

I just called Holland America about the Feb. 29 Westerdam cruise.  They offered a credit that can be applied to any 2020 cruise.  They should simply refund all moneys paid for any Asian cruises this spring.

 

The Carnival Corporation (this includes both Princess and Holland America) is the typhoid Mary of the corona virus epidemic.  According to CNN there are 318 total cases of corona virus WORLDWIDE outside of China, 61 of which are on the Diamond Princess.  To put it another way, except for the Diamond Princess, Japan has 25 cases FROM ALL SOURCES, South Korea has 24 and even Hong Kong has 24.  The Diamond Princess is a disaster without parallel outside of China.  How can we have confidence, despite all the Carnival Corporation assurances, that they can control this epidemic on any of their ships?

 

The arrogance of the Carnival Corporation is unbelievable.  It is time that they ate a big portion of humble pie.

 

We have considerable power to influence corporate behavior.  I have never used social media (Twitter, Facebook, etc.), but it is time for us to use them.  I am going to step into the social media sphere this afternoon.

This came off the Holland America FB page:

Guests on board continue to be safe and well cared for. The ship is not in quarantine and we have no reason to believe there are any cases of coronavirus on board despite media reports. The ship has sufficient fuel and food provisions to last until the end of the voyage. We are providing free internet and phone access for guests and crew to stay in contact with their loved ones. Guests have been provided a full refund and a future cruise credit.

[fatcat04]

The word of the day is...

 

hyperbole

[ hahy-pur-buh-lee ]

noun Rhetoric.

obvious and intentional exaggeration.

an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

 

How many threads do we really need on this topic? Good grief.

[Cruzaholic41]

Pointless thread. Wrong place, wrong time for these ships. It has nothing to do with them being Carnival Corp. it could’ve happened to any ship in the region. 

[sfaaa]

I get it. OP is in a rage and in need of some urgent anger management therapy.

[TAD2005]

Bottom line..... buy travel insurance.   You will be made whole if something like this happens.   And we all know that kaka happens, when you least expect it.    But no, people think they are healthy so who needs insurance ?   Famous last words !!   So because you made the decision to not purchase travel insurance, now it's the cruise line's fault that your ports have been changed.  

[AncientWanderer]

Weird...I read the original post as emphasizing health concerns more than the refund -- except insofar as offering refunds will keep people from cruising in the region and thus prevent spreading the virus.   

H'mmm....

 

 

[TAD2005]

18 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

Weird...I read the original post as emphasizing health concerns more than the refund -- except insofar as offering refunds will keep people from cruising in the region and thus prevent spreading the virus.   

H'mmm....

 

 

The OP's post first paragraph totally blasts Carnival Corp for just offering a credit for a 2020 cruise, and then continues on saying he expects a full refund of all money.   Because that was the OP's headline, it sure seems like the complaint is about refunds.   They are using the virus issue to justify the demands for a full refund. 

[Diver2014]

Am I wrong to assume that we won't have to be on the same ship as the OP on any Carnival Corp owned cruise line?

[tcc8v]

Thank you for your interesting comments.

 

The point is that the Diamond Princess incident shows that if an infected person manages to board the ship, the cruise company cannot protect its passengers.  Infected individuals have a period of time without symptoms, and, as one post pointed out, might lie on their health questionnaires.  It is probably impossible to reduce to an acceptable level the risk of boarding an infected individual.  Infected individuals do get through immigration screening but their effect can be controlled on land (and hence the modest national counts of total infections outside of China).  The Diamond Princess shows that an infected on board ship is very serious.

 

National governments all over Asia apparently agree because they are closing their ports to international cruise ships.  At this time, the Westerdam is floating around the East China Sea, unable to find a port willing to accept her.

 

At this point, what I really think CCL (and probably other cruise companies) should do is to admit its inability to protect passengers and cancel its spring Asian cruises (refunds would result).  To do otherwise is IMHO arrogant.  Humble Pie would probably help.

 

Cruise critic has a very interesting article that points out that standard cruise insurance policies do not cover epidemics.  HAL does offer 'cancel any reason' policies, but these have more limited health coverage.

 

Typhoid Mary is thought to have infected only 51 people (Wikipedia).
 

[cruiserchuck]

1 hour ago, TAD2005 said:

Bottom line..... buy travel insurance.   You will be made whole if something like this happens.   And we all know that kaka happens, when you least expect it.    But no, people think they are healthy so who needs insurance ?   Famous last words !!   So because you made the decision to not purchase travel insurance, now it's the cruise line's fault that your ports have been changed.  

 

Travel insurance may not cover losses due to pandemics or epidemics.  I checked the fine print on insurance I bought for a cruise last year, and it excluded losses due to pandemics or epidemics.  Other people are reporting that even cancel for any reason insurance might not apply here.

[awhcruiser]

3 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Everyone is an expert on what others should do...

Agreed.  Not sure what the OP is expecting.

[IRL_Joanie]

1 hour ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

Pointless thread. Wrong place, wrong time for these ships. It has nothing to do with them being Carnival Corp. it could’ve happened to any ship in the region. 

 

What I find funny is that a few booked passengers are upset that even though the ports of entry were closed by Government Agencies and have placed at least 2 cruise ships under full mandatory quarantine, they seem to not feel any anger at the airlines who have stopped all flights into and out of the same cities/ports.

 

Take a breather people. Life is worth living, even if it means we quarantine a couple of cruise ships for a few days.

 

EDITED: I hear no demands of the airlines to protect us from any airborne contaminants. Is it their job to do so or the cruise lines....I would like to see that, but they cannot. So all I can say is Deal With It as life continues on.

 

Joanie

Edited February 8, 2020 by IRL_Joanie
added a comment

[Aquahound]

38 minutes ago, IRL_Joanie said:

Joanie

 

Joanie, I don't know if anyone has told you this, but your font is almost totally unreadable on mobile devices.  There's a problem with this site pertaining to that particular font (comic sans).  I highly suggest changing it so your posts can be read.

[Himself]

4 hours ago, tcc8v said:

I just called Holland America about the Feb. 29 Westerdam cruise.  They offered a credit that can be applied to any 2020 cruise.  They should simply refund all moneys paid for any Asian cruises this spring.

 

The Carnival Corporation (this includes both Princess and Holland America) is the typhoid Mary of the corona virus epidemic.  According to CNN there are 318 total cases of corona virus WORLDWIDE outside of China, 61 of which are on the Diamond Princess.  To put it another way, except for the Diamond Princess, Japan has 25 cases FROM ALL SOURCES, South Korea has 24 and even Hong Kong has 24.  The Diamond Princess is a disaster without parallel outside of China.  How can we have confidence, despite all the Carnival Corporation assurances, that they can control this epidemic on any of their ships?

 

The arrogance of the Carnival Corporation is unbelievable.  It is time that they ate a big portion of humble pie.

 

We have considerable power to influence corporate behavior.  I have never used social media (Twitter, Facebook, etc.), but it is time for us to use them.  I am going to step into the social media sphere this afternoon.

 

 

What is the policy on refunds?  How far out can one cancel without penalty?

[Seasick Sailor]

1 hour ago, Aquahound said:

 

Joanie, I don't know if anyone has told you this, but your font is almost totally unreadable on mobile devices.  There's a problem with this site pertaining to that particular font (comic sans).  I highly suggest changing it so your posts can be read.

 

Oh thanks. I thought something was wrong with my phone!

[AL3XCruise]

5 hours ago, tcc8v said:

The arrogance of the Carnival Corporation is unbelievable.  It is time that they ate a big portion of humble pie.

 

We have considerable power to influence corporate behavior.  I have never used social media (Twitter, Facebook, etc.), but it is time for us to use them.  I am going to step into the social media sphere this afternoon.

 

You do realize most influence via social media relies on having the connections that build your credibility and get your message in front of lots of eyes?  In most cases someone who hasn't, or rarely, uses as social media platform but steps decides to post a diatribe about a particular issue isn't going to get much support.  Much like you have seen here.

 

While bizarre things do occasionally happen online, you are likely be in line for some humble pie yourself if you think a few angry posts are going to impact CCL's decisions.  CCL very well may decide that, due to public relations and/or evolving events, they need to revise their policies.  It won't be due to an angry tweet.

 

 

[jb008]

Think about the economic damage to many of the ports and people if the cruise lines just cancelled all their Asian itineraries.

Yes, cruise ships increase risk of disease transmission due to close proximity of people (but less risk than an airplane, bus, train, and probably comparable risk to dinner and a movie [aside from the fact that it's x2-3 times per day times number of days for cruise versus dinner and movie]).  However blaming Carnival and accusing them of being a major public health risk because they won't let you cancel for an upcoming cruise for a full refund seems a little disingenuous.  I'm sure they're following CDC and gov't health guidelines and getting frequent input/instructions on what to do.

Frankly, the biggest risk of nCoV right now is more from hype, bad information, and scare mongering by lay people (like @tcc8v) who suddenly profess expertise on epidemiology/infectious disease/public health.  The economic risks associated with nCoV are not trivial; major corporations suddenly discontinuing operations throughout an entire region in an (over)abundance of caution could be a significant destabilizing economic event and is not something that should be speculated about lightly. 

 

 

[DivotMaker]

2 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

Joanie, I don't know if anyone has told you this, but your font is almost totally unreadable on mobile devices.  There's a problem with this site pertaining to that particular font (comic sans).  I highly suggest changing it so your posts can be read.

 

Thanks for posting this...Indeed very hard to read (see below)

[HappyInVan]

I'm surprised that so many disagree with the substance of the OP. That HAL (and other cruise lines) should offer a cash refund for Asian cruises this spring, rather than a credit. It's possible that some pax no longer have an appetite for cruising..

 

This is the way to restore trust in the cruise industry.

 

The OP also seems to feel righteous anger at HAL's decision to board 800 in HK. In retrospect, it was a wrong decision. Whether HAL is culpable is controversial. There is a difference of opinion here. Respect the opinions of others.

 

It is likely that the cruise ban will hurt the cruise and tourism industries. It is what it is. Should the general population suffer the health consequences of business-friendly policies? I don't think so. Neither do the governments of Southeast Asia. 

 

The world is changing. Accept and adapt.

 

 

[tcc8v]

The following is from a Cruise Critic news item (Feb. 7):

 

"The bigger issue for cruisers on the current sailing is where Westerdam goes from here. With Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, The Philippines and other countries denying entry to cruise ships -- even ones with no suspected cases of the disease onboard -- Westerdam's potential ports to disembark guests at in Asia are now severely restricted."

 

So apparently national authorities think that, in Asia at least, international cruising presents an unacceptable risk of disease transmission in the current epidemic.  How can a customer be faulted for thinking the same?
 

[PhoenixCruiser]

Your numbers are way off

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