Why is Celebrity playing "chicken" with its customers

[ECCruise]

I think most pax booked on these cruises are playing the same game.

We are on the Reflection TA where the load factor goes down appreciably by the day and still, there are LOTS of us who are waiting to see what happens re: cancellation.  If they wait until near the 48 hour point, they will be inundated with cancellations and the ship will sail virtually empty.  To European ports where many (or all) may be closed.

[GeorgiaPeach51]

I think of it like poker...you don’t show your hand and you maintain that poker face.  Those of us who are waiting it out vs the cruise lines, who are trying to stay on their feet.  I don’t know about you but here is where we have been regarding our 3 booked cruises.

 

1.  What is wrong with these people saying thousands and thousands will die?  Don’t they know they are scaring people?

2.  Wow.  Look at what is happening in China.

3.  Let’s cancel our Oceania cruise for next August and just deal with the TA on Celebrity April 17 and the QM2 back in May.

4.  Italy, beautiful Italy.  How is this possible?

5.  We are selfishly mourning our lost vacations....feeling guilty for doing so in the face of this devastation...it will take a miracle for them to happen. 

6.  We are where Italy was two weeks ago.  OMG.  Hunker down.  I don’t even want to take a breath outside my own house.  
7.  Husband had to travel to put his mom in a nursing home.  We are isolating ourselves just in case he has IT, because we are our brothers’ keeper.

8.  We will either have a refund or an FCC.  It is out of our realm of influence to determine which.  We will roll with it, and we will pray for this beautiful world we live in and every beating heart that inhabits it. 

[RICCruisers]

1 hour ago, DrKoob said:

 

If you get a 225% FFC why would you be a chump? Are you ever going to cruise Celebrity again? Then don't you think you would use it. If you are pretty much sure you will never cruise with them again, just cancel. But if you think you might, why not wait? I know exactly where I stand. I am either going where I want to go (in which case I am happy) or I am getting 225% FFC when they cancel me.

 

Jim

Your 225% figure is no where to be found. Even Princess was “only” offering 200%. Please don’t add to the confusion by quoting offers that don’t exist. 

[Palms2Pines2Sea]

We are not playing any games.

We already had one cruise cancelled (Millennium Transpacific) and are currently booked on the Infinity Transatlantic, April 25.

I couldn't care less about trying to "maximize" what I'm going to "get" from Celebrity. This is a company that has given me a tremendous product for many years, to say nothing of wonderful friendships and a fantastic feeling of being very well cared for.

If you need to cancel for your own peace of mind, just do it. Really, just make it happen. You will sleep better, I promise.

 

RCL is waiting for the EXACT same thing that we all are waiting for: a tipping point in COVID-19. If you were running the company, you can be absolutely assured that you would be holding on to that hope too, however precarious it might be. And that is why the stoppage was set at 30 days. Is it unrealistic today to think that something could shift dramatically in that time? Your answer might be perhaps, or probably, or no way. But it is imperative that this industry hold on to some hope.

RCL/Celebrity has made all of us a generous and unprecedented offer to cancel if that's what we need to do. If you love cruising, and you love Celebrity, then please look at the big picture. Thanks.

 

[downsmead]

23 minutes ago, Mytravellove said:

Jim, Celebrity is only offering 100% cash refund or 125% FCC if they cancel the cruise. However, I know that Princess is offering 225% FFC or 100% cash refund and 50% FFC.

It would be good if DrKoob would confirm he has got his cruise lines mixed up. Can you imagine the outrage if it transpired that Celebrity offer different rates of FCC to different cruisers! 

If he is quoting Princess’ offer, then it is far more favourable than Celebrity’s.

[Pushka]

3 hours ago, WonderMan3 said:

We know why. They want you to cancel first so they don't have to issue a full refund, just future cruise credit.

And pay in full so no cancellations from them before final payment date, 75 days out. 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Pushka

[downsmead]

UK final payment date is less than 75 days. It is around 60 days I think. This may come into play with their calculations.

[REEtired]

3 hours ago, cruiserchuck said:

 

If you cancel, you get FCC, not money back.

I am not at final payment. If I call and cancel it means no refund and get FCC???! 

[az_tchr]

2 hours ago, idh2019 said:

 

Special deals for special people?

 

Anyway back to topic. We are NOT going on our Celebrity cruise. We got back from a Far East cruise on 9th January (not with Celebrity). Covid-19 kicked off in China the following week. We realised how lucky we had been. So we decided about a month ago not to risk our luck again. Yes, the stress levels since then have been high, but we decided we could just about "live with" the loss of all money if that was the worst case scenario. Hard-earned cash lost but health before vacation.

 

Since then the option of FCC from Celebrity and  future flight vouchers from the airlines we have booked with have given us some comfort but would we ever really want to use them in the allowed time frame? Not likely.

 

With the worsening of the disease we see that cancellations and 100% refunds are now likely so we are holding out. Today's UK FCO advice to not to travel anywhere should help and our travel agent is indicating they will be working to cancel all March/April travel for their customers - UK has various regulations in place if things get cancelled so hopefully they should kick in.

 

If we get most of out money back, a big sigh of relief while we face weeks of "social distancing". I can probably cope. My wife needs more than me to talk to 😁

 

PS regarding use of TA in forums - is it travel agent or transatlantic?

Either. Need to use the context to determine Travel Agent or Transatlantic.

[Jeremiah1212]

This thread on the RCL board explains the general financial health and the importance of cash on hand (with actual facts). 

 

It's no tightly kept secret. They must retain cash at this point. They need your FCC's and deposits in order to do that.  Start at post 101.

 

This part is kind of sobering:

 

With Current Liabilities being 7X Current Assets, with Customer Deposits being 15X cash on hand.  One can easily see why RCL is trying to hold onto the deposits and using FCCs rather than cash refunds.  It also means that without cash flow from ongoing operations they will be in trouble fairly quickly unless they can get some rather large loans.

 

You can also see that 500 million is a drop in the bucket so to speak.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Jeremiah1212

[cruiserchuck]

59 minutes ago, REEtired said:

I am not at final payment. If I call and cancel it means no refund and get FCC???! 

 

If you are not yet in a penalty timeframe, I believe you can still get a cash refund.  The post that I responded to had to do with the new policy that allows a cancellation up to 48 hours before the cruise.  Those folks would not be entitled to a full cash refund if they cancel so close to the cruise.  As of now, Celebrity has been giving passengers the option of a cash refund when Celebrity cancels a cruise.

[gatour]

4 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

Carnival is relatively safe, they have a relatively good sized war chest.  But why do you think all 3 cruise lines just tapped their revolving credit to the max?  NCL stock was cratering until they basically mortgaged off the Bliss for cash.  Everyone is focusing on cash.

 

They didn't tap into their revolving short-term credit.  They just expanded the amount of revolving short-term credit they have access to.  They may never have to tap into this expanded amount or even the original amount beyond what they already had tapped into two months ago.

 

Since NCL had to put up a ship as collateral, while RCCL and Carnival didn't, that should give a hint about what various creditors/banks think of the cruise lines financial statuses.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by gatour

[hvbaskey]

6 hours ago, WonderMan3 said:

We know why. They want you to cancel first so they don't have to issue a full refund, just future cruise credit.

 

and because they can and hope that you chicken out first.

 

For me, I clucked-clucked my way into 50% Cash and 50% FCC before they changed the rules.  I wanted to bail before the terms of their agreement changed and “phew”.    As I was in the 50% penalty box,  I gladly took my cash back and was awarded FCC for what I normally would have lost.

 

I have peace of mind, as I’m pretty sure the May EU destinations are a lost cause and I chickened out while the feed was good.

[hvbaskey]

6 hours ago, WonderMan3 said:

We know why. They want you to cancel first so they don't have to issue a full refund, just future cruise credit.

 

DELETED - duplicate past - system blip!

Edited March 18, 2020 by hvbaskey

[DrKoob]

4 hours ago, RICCruisers said:

Your 225% figure is no where to be found. Even Princess was “only” offering 200%. Please don’t add to the confusion by quoting offers that don’t exist. 

 

My mistake. I read it from another cruise line. We have so many cancelling right now. You still wouldn't be a chump for 125%

[NantahalaCruiser]

2 hours ago, cruiserchuck said:

 

If you are not yet in a penalty timeframe, I believe you can still get a cash refund.  The post that I responded to had to do with the new policy that allows a cancellation up to 48 hours before the cruise.  Those folks would not be entitled to a full cash refund if they cancel so close to the cruise.  As of now, Celebrity has been giving passengers the option of a cash refund when Celebrity cancels a cruise.

REEtired would be able to get a cash refund for his deposit if he cancelled prior to final payment date only if it was a refundable deposit. If it was a non-refundable deposit then he would instead only get a FCC in the amount of the deposit.

[frteach]

Princess is offering 225% FCC? On all Carnival cruise lines or just Princess? Wow! I just paid for an Alaska cruise supposedly leaving on June 14, but Canada has closed all ports through June so that's not going. I am hoping for 125% FCC once they get around to cancelling these Alaska cruises. Sounds TGTBTrue and I just reread the posts before posting this and it is indeed. Don't add to the confusion. Is 200% on Princess true or just a figure someone pulled from their imagination?

Edited March 18, 2020 by frteach
checked info

[MamaFej]

41 minutes ago, frteach said:

Princess is offering 225% FCC? On all Carnival cruise lines or just Princess? Wow! I just paid for an Alaska cruise supposedly leaving on June 14, but Canada has closed all ports through June so that's not going. I am hoping for 125% FCC once they get around to cancelling these Alaska cruises. Sounds TGTBTrue and I just reread the posts before posting this and it is indeed. Don't add to the confusion. Is 200% on Princess true or just a figure someone pulled from their imagination?

Jim corrected himself in Post #40

[sonnycruises]

8 hours ago, DrKoob said:

 

If you get a 225% FFC why would you be a chump? Are you ever going to cruise Celebrity again? Then don't you think you would use it. If you are pretty much sure you will never cruise with them again, just cancel. But if you think you might, why not wait? I know exactly where I stand. I am either going where I want to go (in which case I am happy) or I am getting 225% FFC when they cancel me.

 

Jim

I thought it was 125%.

[Guindalf]

6 hours ago, RICCruisers said:

Your 225% figure is no where to be found. Even Princess was “only” offering 200%. Please don’t add to the confusion by quoting offers that don’t exist. 

 

Wrong. Princess was offering 225% for cancelled cruises leaving before March 31st, 175% for April departures and 150% thru May 10th. I may have the break between the last two slightly out. If your cruise was due to depart any time through May or June, a 6+ night cruise would get $200 OBC per cabin if you decided not to cancel.

 

However, the OBC disappeared and changes were made to the FCC when the terms were updated on 3/13. Now you can get a refund of any portion that is not in penalty and FCC for the rest - at 100% - for any cruise through July 31st.

 

Of course, the terms are much more detailed, but that covers the main points.

 

We have an Alaska cruise booked on Princess for May 17th, which is obviously not going to take place. We have until 3/22 to cancel and get all but $200 back as a credit to our CC and the deposit as a FCC. After that, we go into a 50/50 phase.

 

Hope that clears it up.

[Mr. Click]

The original question was why is Celebrity playing chicken with us?  They are doing it for the same reason we are playing chicken with them.  They gave us a window for cruise through the end of July.  I have two booked, not going on either. The one in May is past final buy why cancel now if I might get more FCC later?  Heather's approach was to grab cash but by the time we quit hoping cash was off the table so we wait on that one for now.  Final payment for July is due April 1, just waiting on the TA's call back to cancel that one and get some deposit money back.  Just a numbers game we all have to play.

[RICCruisers]

54 minutes ago, Guindalf said:

 

Wrong. Princess was offering 225% for cancelled cruises leaving before March 31st, 175% for April departures and 150% thru May 10th. I may have the break between the last two slightly out. If your cruise was due to depart any time through May or June, a 6+ night cruise would get $200 OBC per cabin if you decided not to cancel.

 

However, the OBC disappeared and changes were made to the FCC when the terms were updated on 3/13. Now you can get a refund of any portion that is not in penalty and FCC for the rest - at 100% - for any cruise through July 31st.

 

Of course, the terms are much more detailed, but that covers the main points.

 

We have an Alaska cruise booked on Princess for May 17th, which is obviously not going to take place. We have until 3/22 to cancel and get all but $200 back as a credit to our CC and the deposit as a FCC. After that, we go into a 50/50 phase.

 

Hope that clears it up.

Here is the original Princess 2 offers. I don’t know what the current offer is. 

 

[Miaminice]

With all due respect... when it comes to getting discounts or finding another possible perk or OBC, people are always very "smart" and self-confident. In other cases, they are always expecting and demanding the cruise lines to make a decision... one they themselves don´t want to make.

You have a choice!!! To use your language: You can be a chicken or not. Cancel or wait it out! It is as simple as that.

Celebrity gave you the choice to wait until 48 h before and still cancel. They even gave you an advantage in the stare down contest. What more do you want? 😉

[dani negreanu]

14 hours ago, idh2019 said:

PS regarding use of TA in forums - is it travel agent or transatlantic?

 

Both -- depends on the context.

 

TP - transpacific was easier, unti TP disappeared from the stores....😁

[barbette165]

Maybe the Indian conglomerate Tata could start offering travel agency services, so that people could book a "TA using Tata as TA"?