mrlevin Posted March 24, 2020 #51 Share Posted March 24, 2020 I agree that cruise lines should not be bailed out; however, I think the impact is high on port cities such as Miami, Ft Lauderdale, Galveston, New Orleans, and to an extent Seattle, New York, Los Angeles, and the state of Alaska. There are tens of thousands that work in those port cities supporting cruise ships that are not employed by the cruise lines. Marc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBWIR Posted March 24, 2020 #52 Share Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, mrlevin said: I agree that cruise lines should not be bailed out; however, I think the impact is high on port cities such as Miami, Ft Lauderdale, Galveston, New Orleans, and to an extent Seattle, New York, Los Angeles, and the state of Alaska. There are tens of thousands that work in those port cities supporting cruise ships that are not employed by the cruise lines. Marc So no bail out and all these people are out of jobs.Not sure of the logic. And Alaska is only to an extent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlevin Posted March 24, 2020 #53 Share Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, CBWIR said: So no bail out and all these people are out of jobs.Not sure of the logic. And Alaska is only to an extent? I guess I don't have perfect logic. I just can't see giving money to foreign corporations. Loans, yes. If states want to reduce port fees, yes. But I don't think anything should go to the balance sheet of the cruise companies that is not tied to specific performance metrics that will improve the lot of the American people. Marc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallydave Posted March 24, 2020 #54 Share Posted March 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, CBWIR said: So no bail out and all these people are out of jobs.Not sure of the logic. And Alaska is only to an extent? Yes, it would be a shame for the thousands of people being impacted however these are foreign companies and while there are many other foreign companies with thousands of employees in the US so should we give money to Mercedes, BMW, Siemens, etc. Don't believe foreign governments are going to provide money to true US companies with thousands of employees in other than the US. We are the US but, we have to look inside our country first and spend our money here in the US for US citizens and legal residents and not on illegal aliens and foreign businesses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBWIR Posted March 24, 2020 #55 Share Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, mrlevin said: I guess I don't have perfect logic. I just can't see giving money to foreign corporations. Loans, yes. If states want to reduce port fees, yes. But I don't think anything should go to the balance sheet of the cruise companies that is not tied to specific performance metrics that will improve the lot of the American people. Marc You do realize that they are subject to U.S.tax on parts of their income and they do take advantage of the IRS code exemption on "shipping income"(Section 883 of the Code) which is available to U.S.companies.as well. So they may be registered in foreign countries, they are still subject to U.S.taxes. Just read the NCHL 10-K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlevin Posted March 24, 2020 #56 Share Posted March 24, 2020 I am nor surprised they pay US taxes. They are all excellent companies and deserve more of our taxpayer money than those that foolishly took out too much student debt. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiseluv Posted March 24, 2020 #57 Share Posted March 24, 2020 11 minutes ago, mrlevin said: I guess I don't have perfect logic. I just can't see giving money to foreign corporations. Loans, yes. If states want to reduce port fees, yes. But I don't think anything should go to the balance sheet of the cruise companies that is not tied to specific performance metrics that will improve the lot of the American people. Marc Couldnt agree more. And I realize this is a cruise forum, but frankly as of today I'm more concerned about the millions of small businesses throughout the USA that have been ordered by the government to in essence shutdown with no relief in the horizon. They dont have high priced lobbyists like CLIA has . Many of those businesses will be GONE if this continues for some more weeks. Frankly, the cruise industry doesnt rate up there in my list of concerns although of course some people in this country connected to that industry will be affected. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBWIR Posted March 24, 2020 #58 Share Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, cruiseluv said: Couldnt agree more. And I realize this is a cruise forum, but frankly as of today I'm more concerned about the millions of small businesses throughout the USA that have been ordered by the government to in essence shutdown with no relief in the horizon. They dont have high priced lobbyists like CLIA has . Many of those businesses will be GONE if this continues for some more weeks. Frankly, the cruise industry doesnt rate up there in my list of concerns although of course some people in this country connected to that industry will be affected. I think he changed his mind. See post #51. BTW there are currently two posts #51 don't understand how that happens but referring to the Marx's post about excellent companies and student debt. Edited March 24, 2020 by CBWIR Clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiseluv Posted March 24, 2020 #59 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Just now, CBWIR said: I think he changed his mind. That's cool, doesnt impact what I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlevin Posted March 24, 2020 #60 Share Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) Maria, I like your thought process; would love to have dinner on our next cruise;; do you have a totem cruise booked? Marc Edited March 24, 2020 by mrlevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiseluv Posted March 24, 2020 #61 Share Posted March 24, 2020 43 minutes ago, mrlevin said: Maria, I like your thought process; would love to have dinner on our next cruise;; do you have a totem cruise booked? Marc No Marc, as of tomorrow I will have no cruises booked, but lets stay in touch, hopefully we'll rebook in the near future. I just wanted to start with a clean slate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBWIR Posted March 24, 2020 #62 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Stock price up 42%+ today. Tells me the market believes they will have bailout funds available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Q Posted March 26, 2020 Author #63 Share Posted March 26, 2020 See the link below. It would appear that no financial aid for cruise lines was included in the current stimulus bill. It is certainly possible that relief could be coming in a future bill. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/26/coronavirus-bailout-could-exclude-carnival-norwegian-royal-caribbean-cruise-lines.html?&qsearchterm=cruise lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolebludger Posted March 26, 2020 #64 Share Posted March 26, 2020 (edited) Steve, I believe you are correct in that the requirements for US connection in the current relief bill are conjunctive (repeated use of the word “and” in the bill’s language) and the major cruise lines just don’t qualify under the language. Of course, neither do any of the international car makers or other international companies if incorporated elsewhere. Edited March 26, 2020 by Dolebludger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Eagle02 Posted March 27, 2020 #65 Share Posted March 27, 2020 Even CLIA is acknowledging no bail out. See article below.https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/26/cruise-line-bailout/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbarianPaul Posted March 27, 2020 #66 Share Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) As an avid cruiser, for the health of the industry, I wish the lines had received some relief. But I also understand why they didn’t, and wonder now about their labor practices. They’re incorporated in other countries to reduce costs, which include paying low wages for monumentally long hours, and expect passengers to make up some of the shortfall by asking us to pay required gratuities. Even a high gratuity rate, and I always try to exceed what the lines recommend, and even give cash to various crew members who’ve gone above and beyond, doesn’t really get the wage up to a decent level. In a way, it’s kind of a shell game, no? I’m certainly aware of the fact that a job on a cruise line offers an opportunity for income that might not be available at many of the crews’ home countries. But still. And of course many lines like Regent promote from within, create a decent working environment, foster loyalty over the years, etc. etc. But still. At the end of the day, a cruise line is a business, not a family. Frankly, I’m torn and unsure what to think. Does anyone else have a take on this? Edited March 27, 2020 by BarbarianPaul Clarify thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolebludger Posted March 27, 2020 #67 Share Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) Nobody knows what to think about the future of the cruise lines. We can probably safely say that exclusion from the bail out bill increases their risk of bankruptcy in the not too distant future. Everybody probably evaluates that risk differently, but all probably agree that the risk has increased to some degree. What this means to many cruisers is that any money paid to a line for a cruise in the future risks the loss of at least some of that money, if bankruptcy were to occur between the time of that cruise and its conclusion. How much I don’t know. When I practiced in bankruptcy law some 30 to 35 years ago, customers who had paid a bankrupt company money before the bankruptcy and the service and/or goods were not delivered yet had a “super priority” claim up to $2500, that took precedent over virtually all other claimants. The law has probably changed since then, and if anybody here has current info, it would help if they would post it right here! I also don’t know if FCCs would be covered by this claim priority, or not. If anybody has an educated opinion on this, It would also be a good thing for us to know. Edited March 27, 2020 by Dolebludger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcardad Posted March 27, 2020 #68 Share Posted March 27, 2020 They all have about 12 months operating capital and will be sailing by July or August....that's my free opinion. In the meantime, ride the cruise stock rollercoaster and make some extra cruise money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbarianPaul Posted March 27, 2020 #69 Share Posted March 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, Pcardad said: They all have about 12 months operating capital and will be sailing by July or August....that's my free opinion. In the meantime, ride the cruise stock rollercoaster and make some extra cruise money. Or try to catch a falling knife and lose what you invested. That’s my free opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcardad Posted March 27, 2020 #70 Share Posted March 27, 2020 I am already ahead and banked my profit. Now I play with someone else's money. I understand that some people don't like risk and that's fine...but I am pretty good at catching things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flossie009 Posted March 27, 2020 #71 Share Posted March 27, 2020 11 minutes ago, Pcardad said: I am pretty good at catching things ..... but not the virus, I hope 😷 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcardad Posted March 27, 2020 #72 Share Posted March 27, 2020 Hope not but I am in 40's with no health issues so not worried for myself....more so for family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolebludger Posted March 27, 2020 #73 Share Posted March 27, 2020 Those who already have their retirement portfolio in place, geared for relative stability and income even in these times, are more interested in the financial stability of cruise lines from the standpoint of booking a cruise on one. There is considerable risk in making deposit payments (or worse, final payment) to a cruise line that may go bankrupt before the ending of the cruise. As I posted above, decades ago the bankruptcy code provided one of the highest priorities to customers who had paid the debtor for things not provided due to the bankruptcy — but only up to $2500. I wish I knew what the bankruptcy code provided today in this regard. I am too long retired to have any idea. Again, does anybody here know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ2002 Posted March 27, 2020 #74 Share Posted March 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Pcardad said: They all have about 12 months operating capital and will be sailing by July or August....that's my free opinion. In the meantime, ride the cruise stock rollercoaster and make some extra cruise money. I like your 12 month estimate vs. the five-six month estimates that I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcardad Posted March 27, 2020 #75 Share Posted March 27, 2020 I've seen them as well...and they are , no doubt, much smarter than I am . While cash and cash equivalents are hard to hide, I think the expenses will be able to be cut more than currently estimated...cut or deferred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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