Azamara requiring letter/ form from physician...Bonnie.(merged)

[TravelOrDie]

4 hours ago, excitedofharpenden said:

What a ridiculous statement. We are in the middle of a health crisis. I'm sure there are many of us who are "discriminated" against just now. 

 

Phil 

Fortunately, most frequent cruisers have the financial resources to deal with blatant discrimination by using cruise lines which do not engage in this practice.  I will not cruise with Azamara, Celebrity or Royal Caribbean, now the only cruise lines which state on their websites that all clients 70 or older require a physician's letter.  We have instead planned cruises on Oceania and Viking for 2022.  We have not yet cancelled our upcoming 2021 Azamara cruise but will certainly do so if they continue demanding a physician's letter.

 

I wonder if Azamara will next add obese individuals to the list of those requiring a physician's letter now that there is evidence from NYC that obese individuals, independent of age,  are at higher risk of dying from COVID-19.

[midwestchick]

3 hours ago, nordski said:

And, because of our personal age, some of us are subject to discrimination that favours us, such as Senior’s discounts etc. It’s all a bit embarrassing given the issues the Millennials face.

 

Personally, I have no problem facing discrimination if it’s based upon science, even if of the actuarial kind that affects my insurance rate. No scientist seem to doubt that the elderly are more at risk. 
 

Furthermore, given the cloud over the cruising industry it may well be that we will face some “health theatre” when planning to cruise, just as airlines instituted “security theatre” to deal with the fear of terrorism. If the “theatre” makes us think more clearly about our health and cruising then that is better for everyone.

 

Finally, we are owed some free days of cruising. I hope that both of us are alive and well to experience the disappointment if we never collect on those days. Enjoying both would be a bonus!

Because of their new guidelines I will lose my free days which I think is really unfair.  I am not canceling my cruise....Azamara is telling me I cannot cruise but still want me to make final payment even though the policy is in place.  That makes absolutely no sense to me.  

[midwestchick]

7 hours ago, excitedofharpenden said:

What a ridiculous statement. We are in the middle of a health crisis. I'm sure there are many of us who are "discriminated" against just now. 

 

Phil 

I didn’t say I was the only one.  

[midwestchick]

8 hours ago, uktog said:

No one is losing their free nights.  If you look at the q and a on the Azamara website, it explicitly says that they are “preserved”. So you’ve Won that fight

No, I’ve been in contact with loyalty ambassador.  If I don’t make final paymet on a cruise I cannot go on, the free nights are not preserved. 

[BBMacLaird]

21 minutes ago, midwestchick said:

No, I’ve been in contact with loyalty ambassador.  If I don’t make final paymet on a cruise I cannot go on, the free nights are not preserved. 

Hi midwest,

It does seem you're in a bit of a pickle 😞

Which voyage are you booked on; for which your final payment is coming due. Maybe I can look into your dilemma.

[uktog]

The wording on the website could be interpreted that you would keep your free nights so I am surprised at the answer you got.

 

We expect to lose our free nights because we will be unable to make a booking commitment before they expire.  For us, we have tried to use them several times and they have never been worth anything, they have always led to the cruise costing more if we use the nights than if we did not.  Anyway, in the current scheme of things and what others are losing, we just see it as a fundamental flaw of the scheme in the past followed by a punch from this virus now.  We will just count our blessings if and when we can cruise again.

 

As Norski rightly highlights, our free bus passes and reduced entry to museums etc on holidays is the counter benefit of our age.   Thanks for keeping me on focus on that one.

Edited April 27, 2020 by uktog

[BBMacLaird]

24 minutes ago, uktog said:

The wording on the website could be interpreted that you would keep your free nights so I am surprised at the answer you got.

 

It depends on the date of the voyage she is cancelling. It obviously cannot be within the range of voyages that were part of the global suspension, prior to June 12, 2020, since she has yet to pay Final Payment. Those cancelled voyages have the ability to reapply the free earned nights to another voyage.

If it is a voyage up through September 2020 I know the Final Payment is being extended on a case-by-case basis. If beyond September, she/her agent could certainly request a Final Payment extension. No guarantee but I know we'd rather keep an active booking, and a loyal cruiser happy, than not.

If it is a voyage after September, and she is still wanting to cancel, but she is currently beyond the 1-year deadline of having earned the free nights, then, no, the free nights do not transfer. Here is from the T&Cs for Loyalty Benefits: 

 

Certain changes to the complimentary nights cruise booking, including but not limited to double name changes, change of ship or sail date, cancellation/rebook, may result in the loss of the complimentary cruise night credits during the following periods:

	ONE YEAR REDEMPTION PERIOD	AFTER ONE YEAR REDEMPTION PERIOD
Before final payment is due	Changes permitted	Lose complimentary nights
After final payment is due	Lose complimentary nights	Lose complimentary nights

 

 

 

[nordski]

1 hour ago, uktog said:

The wording on the website could be interpreted that you would keep your free nights so I am surprised at the answer you got.

 

We expect to lose our free nights because we will be unable to make a booking commitment before they expire.  For us, we have tried to use them several times and they have never been worth anything, they have always led to the cruise costing more if we use the nights than if we did not.  Anyway, in the current scheme of things and what others are losing, we just see it as a fundamental flaw of the scheme in the past followed by a punch from this virus now.  We will just count our blessings if and when we can cruise again.

 

As Norski rightly highlights, our free bus passes and reduced entry to museums etc on holidays is the counter benefit of our age.   Thanks for keeping me on focus on that one.

Thanks for this comment. I was aware that you had found no real benefit in the free nights and that served to temper our excitement.

 

Furthermore, for us in the grand scheme the benefit is of less importance now than even 4 months ago, but I realize others are in a very different situation.

 

It’s interesting to me how a formerly rather neutral term, “discrimination”, has acquired a very pejorative connotation. 
 

Edited April 27, 2020 by nordski

[uktog]

4 minutes ago, nordski said:

 

 

It’s interesting to me how a formerly rather neutral term, “discrimination”, has acquired a very pejorative connotation. 
 

Worse still, the use of the word vulnerable when someone is 70 years and 1 day!!!

[BBMacLaird]

3 hours ago, midwestchick said:

Because of their new guidelines I will lose my free days which I think is really unfair.  

 

Hi midwestchick...check back tomorrow, there is news that you should like!

[midwestchick]

3 hours ago, BBMacLaird said:

Hi midwest,

It does seem you're in a bit of a pickle 😞

Which voyage are you booked on; for which your final payment is coming due. Maybe I can look into your dilemma.

I am in a pickle, Bonnie and would appreciate some help.  I’ve tried explaining as has my travel agent to no avail. 

The sailing is a Baltic cruise on the Quest departing Stockholm on August 6.  Final payment is due on May 14, 2020.

As I’ve explained the FCC will be useless under the current restrictions.  I’m not the person canceling...Azamara is and it’s unfair to tie up my money if I’m not going to be able to cruise.  I had the same “chronic” condition in November when we sailed and I had  no problems.  I am less of a risk now than I was when we sailed our Dalmation Coast cruises. 
Nancy

[TravelOrDie]

1 hour ago, nordski said:

It’s interesting to me how a formerly rather neutral term, “discrimination”, has acquired a very pejorative connotation. 
 

Interesting indeed.  Perhaps we are being overly charitable to the cruise lines by calling it age discrimination. I would be perfectly comfortable with alternatives such as age prejudice or age intolerance or even something more descriptive and less pejorative such as favouritism towards those under 70 years of age.

 

In any event, I'm sure these lively discussions on this thread will soon end once Azamara, Celebrity and Royal Caribbean realize that seniors with financial resources are abandoning their Azamara, Celebrity and Royal Caribbean cruises and moving on.  Like it or not, wealth is influential.

[marinaro44]

27 minutes ago, BBMacLaird said:

 

Hi midwestchick...check back tomorrow, there is news that you should like!

I hope so.  Just canceled an August cruise booked with ten free nights.  If I lose those ten--on top of losing my platinum advantage in the new upgrade scheme--I'm completely gone.  How a company treats loyal patrons during a pandemic is a measure of its integrity.

 

I suppose the good news is there was no penalty incurred when cancelling our two August cruises, with full deposits refunded (in 30 days, my TA says).

[midwestchick]

31 minutes ago, travelordie said:

Interesting indeed.  Perhaps we are being overly charitable to the cruise lines by calling it age discrimination. I would be perfectly comfortable with alternatives such as age prejudice or age intolerance or even something more descriptive and less pejorative such as favouritism towards those under 70 years of age.

 

In any event, I'm sure these lively discussions on this thread will soon end once Azamara, Celebrity and Royal Caribbean realize that seniors with financial resources are abandoning their Azamara, Celebrity and Royal Caribbean cruises and moving on.  Like it or not, wealth is influential.

Amen. We may very well be moving on as well.  

[nordski]

3 hours ago, uktog said:

Worse still, the use of the word vulnerable when someone is 70 years and 1 day!!!

 

 

Perhaps it was Bloodaxe on this forum who commented that a future concern may well be travel insurance rates, usually determined by the seemingly arbitrary age cohorts that you mention. Medjet Assist already has a fairly punitive rate change as one turns 75. I am actually more concerned about that, as I expect most cruise lines will eventually follow the lead of CLIA on age-related rules.
 

But it’s not just seniors who are exposed to potentially negative terms. In terms of covid, an epidemiologist here referred to children as “germ bombs”. Descriptive, and maybe it will prove to be somewhat accurate, but it does make one look at grandchildren rather differently. 😄

 

[midwestchick]

4 hours ago, nordski said:

 

 

Perhaps it was Bloodaxe on this forum who commented that a future concern may well be travel insurance rates, usually determined by the seemingly arbitrary age cohorts that you mention. Medjet Assist already has a fairly punitive rate change as one turns 75. I am actually more concerned about that, as I expect most cruise lines will eventually follow the lead of CLIA on age-related rules.
 

But it’s not just seniors who are exposed to potentially negative terms. In terms of covid, an epidemiologist here referred to children as “germ bombs”. Descriptive, and maybe it will prove to be somewhat accurate, but it does make one look at grandchildren rather differently. 😄

 

Insurance rates have always been based on age.  Nothing new there.  I use Allianz.  I had to cancel a cruise last year for a covered reason and it worked great.  

[uktog]

Vulnerable is the term used by our government to describe anyone over 70 just now.  But it’s also used for anyone of any age pre Covid times to describe people with complex physical and mental conditions.  Anyway during lock-in I’m extremely vulnerable to injury lifting the glass recycling box to the end of the drive and repetitive strain injury from moving jigsaw pieces in and out the puzzle 😂
 

There are always arbitrary cut offs on things - shore excursions had them, so many things on land have them.  For example some of our joint credit card linked benefits stop this year with one cardholder reaching 70.  They are based on actuarial risk and yep, sometimes you get caught. My issue wasn’t that we were potentially caught, it was that the letter produced to allow DH to sail later this year was worded such that no UK general practitioner would sign it. 

[Baynanno1]

2 hours ago, uktog said:

  Anyway during lock-in I’m extremely vulnerable to injury lifting the glass recycling box to the end of the drive and repetitive strain injury from moving jigsaw pieces in and out the puzzle 😂
 

 

Aren't we all 😂 although our recycling bin is on wheels.

Stay well!

[free from work]

12 hours ago, nordski said:

 

 

 

But it’s not just seniors who are exposed to potentially negative terms. In terms of covid, an epidemiologist here referred to children as “germ bombs”. Descriptive, and maybe it will prove to be somewhat accurate, but it does make one look at grandchildren rather differently. 😄

 

At the moment I would love to give my own little "germ bombs" a massive hug. 

[uktog]

18 hours ago, BBMacLaird said:

 

It depends on the date of the voyage she is cancelling. It obviously cannot be within the range of voyages that were part of the global suspension, prior to June 12, 2020, since she has yet to pay Final Payment. Those cancelled voyages have the ability to reapply the free earned nights to another voyage.

If it is a voyage up through September 2020 I know the Final Payment is being extended on a case-by-case basis. If beyond September, she/her agent could certainly request a Final Payment extension. No guarantee but I know we'd rather keep an active booking, and a loyal cruiser happy, than not.

If it is a voyage after September, and she is still wanting to cancel, but she is currently beyond the 1-year deadline of having earned the free nights, then, no, the free nights do not transfer. Here is from the T&Cs for Loyalty Benefits: 

 

Certain changes to the complimentary nights cruise booking, including but not limited to double name changes, change of ship or sail date, cancellation/rebook, may result in the loss of the complimentary cruise night credits during the following periods:

	ONE YEAR REDEMPTION PERIOD	AFTER ONE YEAR REDEMPTION PERIOD
Before final payment is due	Changes permitted	Lose complimentary nights
After final payment is due	Lose complimentary nights	Lose complimentary nights

 

 

 

This is the information on the website I was referring to:

 

• What will happen to canceled or suspended bookings that had Azamara Circle Complimentary nights applied?
  • If you redeemed your complimentary nights on an affected voyage, you will not lose your complimentary nights. On the contrary, we will move them back to your member profile, and extend the expiration of your complimentary nights for use on a future Azamara voyage that departs on or before December 31, 2021.
  • If your voyage wasn’t affected by the current situation, but you have active complimentary nights expiring on or before October 31, 2020, we will be extending the expiration date of those complimentary nights to be redeemed on a voyage on or before December 31, 2021.

[nordski]

1 hour ago, free from work said:

At the moment I would love to give my own little "germ bombs" a massive hug. 

You aren’t the only one!

 

I hope sooner rather than later.

Germany and Denmark are initiating some school openings. That policy should inform the next steps.

 

[midwestchick]

On 4/27/2020 at 3:02 PM, BBMacLaird said:

 

Hi midwestchick...check back tomorrow, there is news that you should like!

No news?  I didn’t see anything Bonnie.

[Grandma Cruising]

2 hours ago, midwestchick said:

No news?  I didn’t see anything Bonnie.

Bonnie May have meant what was in the Azamara email yesterday about Loyalty Benefit Protection

VIEW IN BROWSER   FIND A JOURNEY   |   TRAVEL ADVISORY   |      As we take a break from exploring the world, we are working on ensuring the safety and peace of mind of our Azamara family. We’re happy to share our latest initiatives, including updating our cancellation policy and Azamara Circle℠ benefits protection, as well as implementing new health protocols. Our goal is to go above and beyond as we keep our guests top of mind during this time. As a valued Azamara Circle℠ member, you are an important part of our family, and family means everything to us. We truly can’t wait to welcome you back to your home away from home on a safe and memorable adventure of discovery. FOR MORE INFORMATION OR TO MAKE A RESERVATION OR CONTACT YOUR TRAVEL ADVISOR Explore Further℠

Edited April 29, 2020 by Host Grandma Cruising

[uktog]

I do not see any change in requirements regarding the health form and the wording is still so broad we will not be able to get it signed, so our RCL cruising days look like they will be over for a long time if not for ever come August.   As our insurance company is happy we can travel based on their criteria we will look for other travel opportunities and cruiselines if possible.  Oh well, never had that down as a problem of “old age” so early in our retirement years but it’s happened. 

 

I did wonder how many guests in the promotion video (either speaking to camera or in the background) won’t be able to continue likewise. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by uktog

[excitedofharpenden]

1 hour ago, uktog said:

I do not see any change in requirements regarding the health form and the wording is still so broad we will not be able to get it signed, so our RCL cruising days look like they will be over for a long time if not for ever come August.   As our insurance company is happy we can travel based on their criteria we will look for other travel opportunities and cruiselines if possible.  Oh well, never had that down as a problem of “old age” so early in our retirement years but it’s happened. 

 

I did wonder how many guests in the promotion video (either speaking to camera or in the background) won’t be able to continue likewise. 

I knew all of them and there are three for sure. 

 

Phil