Zaandam and Rotterdam -- Moving Forward (April 3, 2020)

[POA1]

3 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

Passenger are leaving Fort Lauderdale on charter flights to Toronto, Atlanta, San Francisco, London, Paris and Frankfurt but from there Carnival is booking passengers on commercial flights to their final destination.

 

Thanks. I clearly failed to read all 21 of the pages when I was compiling them. 😵

[DaveSJ711]

9 minutes ago, POA1 said:

 

According to the plan, no one was leaving FLL on a commercial flight. I'm not sure what happens after that, but I'm sure that the Lawyers' Full Employment Act requires agreements like this everywhere. 😉

 

The lawyers for all sides did a great job putting this agreement together on short notice.

[Copper10-8]

The third charter flight, this time for the U.S. west coast as well as Aussie and Kiwis pax from  Zaandam and Rotterdam, Eastern Airlines EAL 267 Heavy, is airborne/climbing out and enroute San Fran

 

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/EAL267/history/20200403/1815Z/KFLL/KSFO

[cdwise]

12 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

The lawyers for all sides did a great job putting this agreement together on short notice.

Speaking as a retired lawyer a lot of that was already floating around from other agreements since this mess started.  This is why I said that that the terms and conditions for docking should have been agreed upon at least a week ago and probably as soon as the port shutdowns started. Anyone who didn't foresee that ships would be coming back to home ports with passengers on board was being very optimistic/unrealistic at best or callous at worst. Certainly the Grand Princess issue should have put them on notice. I suspect that a lot of the language came from that event. Though I do think the stay on board, assess health, put on low passenger density buses and straight to the airplanes done if Florida is better than the clear, wait in tents at a cargo terminal done in California.

 

The most important part is that once terms and conditions were set the cruise line stepped up and met them quickly and people will be in their own homes or whatever their locale requires soon. 

[Vict0riann]

Nothing on the noon (Toronto) news about the returning Canadians.  Perhaps this evening.  I know there are a few passengers who are returning to Vancouver Island.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Vict0riann

[BigJohnL]

1 hour ago, POA1 said:

Once cleared by CBP, individuals Fit for Travel will be assigned transportation to

their home via vehicles contracted by the Company. These passengers will collect their luggage in the terminal after disembarkation and proceed to the designated pickup area, maintaining appropriate social distancing.

 

Guests will be picked up and driven directly to their home destination. For Florida residents living north of Ocala, charter flights will be provided.

The above quote is from the Carnival plan for Florida residents.

 

Does this preclude the option of these passengers being picked up at the Terminal by family, who will drive them home?

 

I guess the authorities want to retain as much control as possible over the pax until they get home.

 

I'm guessing the "vehicles contracted by the Company" will be taxis/Ubers/Lyfts?

[Tampa Girl]

1 hour ago, POA1 said:

 

You had to go out a lot further than the default view. The Zaandam is scheduled for next Thursday, April 9th.

 

 

How did you go out that far?  I could only go as far as 4/8.  Does it still show the Rotterdam on the 6th at 2200?

[DaveSJ711]

31 minutes ago, cdwise said:

Speaking as a retired lawyer a lot of that was already floating around from other agreements since this mess started.  This is why I said that that the terms and conditions for docking should have been agreed upon at least a week ago and probably as soon as the port shutdowns started. Anyone who didn't foresee that ships would be coming back to home ports with passengers on board was being very optimistic/unrealistic at best or callous at worst. Certainly the Grand Princess issue should have put them on notice. I suspect that a lot of the language came from that event. Though I do think the stay on board, assess health, put on low passenger density buses and straight to the airplanes done if Florida is better than the clear, wait in tents at a cargo terminal done in California.

 

The most important part is that once terms and conditions were set the cruise line stepped up and met them quickly and people will be in their own homes or whatever their locale requires soon. 

 

I'm a lawyer, too.  I don't doubt that pieces of the final agreement were "floating around" from other documents.  Still, these pieces all had to be combined and harmonized with the new understandings in just a couple of days.  I give credit to counsel for pulling it all together while the world was looking over their shoulders.

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, POA1 said:

 

Thanks. I clearly failed to read all 21 of the pages when I was compiling them. 😵

 

It's a lot to read. Legalese always makes me glaze over, but I did try to read the plan for passengers.

 

Thanks for posting it.

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by 3rdGenCunarder

[POA1]

1 hour ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Passenger are leaving Fort Lauderdale on charter flights to Toronto, Atlanta, San Francisco, London, Paris and Frankfurt but from there Carnival is booking passengers on commercial flights to their final destination.  One CC member here posted that his brother is landing at Atlanta and then connecting on a commercial flight to Charlotte.  There are many with analogous flight arrangements.  They are supposed wear masks continuously until they arrive home and then quarantine at home for 14 days.  Hope they all do.

 

And on your long post re: the agreement, attached below is the complete agreement between CCL and Broward County with all the formats, signatures, etc. and easy to search.  Your post was the longest I have seen.  Best to download the PDF below and perhaps delete the copy paste.  My 2 cents.

Carnival-Complete-Agreement.pdf 977.52 kB · 2 downloads

 

You can only edit a post for 15 minutes. But thanks for the PDF. The Sun-Sentinel didn't have it in a downloadable format, so I did the best I could with what I had at hand.

 

No good deed goes unpunished.

[BigJohnL]

2 minutes ago, POA1 said:

No good deed goes unpunished.

I, for one, appreciate your cut and paste very much. Thank you.

[DFD1]

Thank you  blusea321 for posting it.

[cccole]

31 minutes ago, BigJohnL said:

The above quote is from the Carnival plan for Florida residents.

 

Does this preclude the option of these passengers being picked up at the Terminal by family, who will drive them home?

 

I guess the authorities want to retain as much control as possible over the pax until they get home.

 

I'm guessing the "vehicles contracted by the Company" will be taxis/Ubers/Lyfts?

BigJohnL, I was wondering the same thing.  Looking forward to someone in-the-know to respond.  Cherie

[POA1]

26 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

How did you go out that far?  I could only go as far as 4/8.  Does it still show the Rotterdam on the 6th at 2200?

 

In the little search box on the left, type the vessel name. There's a Filter drop down on the right that allows yo to set the time period for the query. You can go 7 days into the past or 7 into the future. You can also use the Query button to search the whole database, certain date ranges, and other fields.  I did a search for Rotterdam using ALL dates and it went back to 2011.  Here's the recent Rotterdam info.  The departure is scheduled for April 6, at 22:22. In my experience, 22:22 is used for unspecified PM and 11:11 is used for unspecified AM.  (We use the PEV vessel traffic board often to tell us whet just sailed by our windows.)

 

[Sharon in AZ]

16 minutes ago, POA1 said:

 

You can only edit a post for 15 minutes. But thanks for the PDF. The Sun-Sentinel didn't have it in a downloadable format, so I did the best I could with what I had at hand.

 

No good deed goes unpunished.

No, I appreciated your good deed POA.  Keep it up please.

[Tampa Girl]

7 minutes ago, POA1 said:

 

In the little search box on the left, type the vessel name. There's a Filter drop down on the right that allows yo to set the time period for the query. You can go 7 days into the past or 7 into the future. You can also use the Query button to search the whole database, certain date ranges, and other fields.  I did a search for Rotterdam using ALL dates and it went back to 2011.  Here's the recent Rotterdam info.  The departure is scheduled for April 6, at 22:22. In my experience, 22:22 is used for unspecified PM and 11:11 is used for unspecified AM.  (We use the PEV vessel traffic board often to tell us whet just sailed by our windows.)

 

 

Thank you, POA.

[BigJohnL]

I have another concern about the debarkation plan. Take the situation of 2 family members travelling together. One fails the Fit to Travel test, meaning he/she must stay on board until well. The other passes the test and is ok to debark. I certainly hope the powers-that-be won't force the well passenger to debark, leaving the loved one alone in an already-stressful situation. Someone please tell me they would never do this.

Edited April 3, 2020 by BigJohnL
Clarity

[bluesea321]

4 minutes ago, BigJohnL said:

I have another concern about the debarkation plan. Take the situation of 2 family members travelling together. One fails the Fit to Travel test, meaning he/she must stay on board until well. The other passes the test and is ok to debark. I certainly hope the powers-that-be won't force the well passenger to debark, leaving the loved one alone in an already-stressful situation. Someone please tell me they would never do this.

 

I don't know what they are doing with the HAL ships but they split couples in the Diamond Princess in the situation you described.  In fact there were couples where one stayed in Japan in a hospital while the other member flew to the US on a chartered flight.  I followed a split couple from CA and it was a really sad situation.  

 

[YXU AC*SE]

1 hour ago, Vict0riann said:

Nothing on the noon (Toronto) news about the returning Canadians.  Perhaps this evening.  I know there are a few passengers who are returning to Vancouver Island.

 

EAL212 ex FLL arrived YYZ 14h42.    Scott. 

[BigJohnL]

I also remember reading of situations like that in the Grand Princess. Although I think they were situations where one person was hospitalized. Still, not letting the other partner at least stay in the same city or area is cruel. I hope that is not repeated in the current situation.

 

Edit: forgot to quote bluesea321's post 2 above this.

Edited April 3, 2020 by BigJohnL
Clarity

[Vict0riann]

25 minutes ago, YXU AC*SE said:

 

EAL212 ex FLL arrived YYZ 14h42.    Scott. 

Do you know what is happening to them?  Are they going to be sequestered on a military base, as previous cruisers were?

[YXU AC*SE]

Sorry, NFI.    I expect they were screened upon arrival and managed per latest GoC requirements wrt Quarantine Act and mandatory self-isolation.  https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/news/2020/03/new-order-makes-self-isolation-mandatory-for-individuals-entering-canada.html   

 

The Government of Canada will use its authority under the Quarantine Act to ensure compliance with the order. Failure to comply with this Order is an offense under the Quarantine Act. Maximum penalties include a fine of up to $750,000 and/or imprisonment for six months. Further, a person who causes a risk of imminent death or serious bodily harm to another person while wilfully or recklessly contravening this Act or the regulations could be liable for a fine of up to $1,000,000 or to imprisonment of up to three years, or to both. Spot checks will be conducted by the Government of Canada to verify compliance.

 

Scott.  

[mevs904]

I agree with the emotional effect of separating family members and I also think  that it would not be responsible to separate a couple that had been living together for the past several days.  Chances are that the other family member might at the current time be asymptotic and would then manifest the virus in the next few days when they were out in the world.

[ONECRUISER]

39 minutes ago, BigJohnL said:

I also remember reading of situations like that in the Grand Princess. Although I think they were situations where one person was hospitalized. Still, not letting the other partner at least stay in the same city or area is cruel. I hope that is not repeated in the current situation.

 

Edit: forgot to quote bluesea321's post 2 above this.

Unfortunately separation will prob still continue traveling home without quarantined/Hospitalized Family. When currently babies being born with only Mom allowed in Hospital. Patients dying also without Family Members allowed there. My Uncle's in Hospital, Terminal Cancer, passed out 2 days ago at home. Taken to Hospital, no Family has seen him and his Daughter a Nurse in same Hospital is banned from site except her work hrs. 

[LHT28]

52 minutes ago, Vict0riann said:

Do you know what is happening to them?  Are they going to be sequestered on a military base, as previous cruisers were?

Hopefully they went straight home  & will stay there