Zaandam and Rotterdam -- Moving Forward (April 3, 2020)

[DFD1]

There is usually an exclusion clause in travel policies covering pandemics. I doubt there is any coverage of Covid19.

 

HAL's "cancel of any reason" policy may be an exception.

Edited April 5, 2020 by DFD1

[johnnyswitzerland]

USA Today: United charter flight will take Australian citizens from ill-fated MS Zaandam home Sunday

[3rdGenCunarder]

11 hours ago, LHT28 said:

I wonder how long  it is  if you are in isolation  that you can get the virus?

CDC tells people to self isolate for 14 days

I have read most people show signs  in 5 to10 days after contact with an affected person

 Those on the ship were isolated in their cabins on March 22 nd  .

You would think  if they were infected  that they would shown signs by yesterday

 

JMO

 

You're right, it doesn't take the full 14 days in every case. That's an outside number used to be certain. And March 22 is a long time ago as things go these days.

 

[cdwise]

18 hours ago, janert said:

cdwise--I am a retired flight attendant from a major US airline.  I have friends who are still flying.  It is very scary.  4 flight attendants have died that worked for the airline I am retired from.  6 or 7 ground personal have died also.   Many more are sick.  The airlines are  not proving much for protection.  Most just have agreed to let flight attendants and ground crews to wear masks and gloves in the last week.  They do not provide them.  So why would a crew want to take passengers who are just off a cruise ship with passengers who have died from Covid19?  Not me.  Australia or  Holland America needs to provide a charter.  Those crew members are aware of the type of passengers they are carrying and can make decision before flight.  So I am not sure you would be so willing to fly an airplane with passengers who they know have been exposed to Covid19.  Sounds nice to say yes to something you will never be in the position to have to decide.   I think that the question should never been posted.  No one knows what they will do in difficult situations until it actually happens. 

 

First place my comment was that yes,  I would fly on that same flight even as a passenger sitting near one of those evacuated and I'm a high risk individual. Not that anyone else has to do so. As has been clearly stated so many times you have to assume that anyone you meet may have been exposed to Covid-19. If you don't then you are simply being foolish. So either you continue to fly as flight crew or you don't. This flight doesn't present any more risk than any other flight currently in the air.

 

We got a phone call that my mother in law's assisted living complex has had a case of covid-19. They have allowed not a single visitor for the 2.5 weeks prior to their first case. Everyplace around here is shut down other than food, gas, repair facilities. Heck, her electric wheelchair developed a problem and we can't even get a repair done on it until after the shutdown. Extra precautions have taken place in all the assistive living and group homes including antiviral fogging in the corridors and even more stringent than normal cleaning routines. Yet, despite the shutdown and the fact that the workers all know they are interacting daily with a very vulnerable population it still managed to get in. 

 

Second, I truly believe that the cruise ship passengers are as safe, possibly safer than any other person flying right now. While we know that people on the ship did come down with the virus we also know that the people on this flight have been monitored for more than two weeks for any sign of infection.  We also know from published studies that  even if you get the virus depending on the severity you are not longer contagious after 5-12 days. 

Yes, there is some evidence of asymptomatic infection but that can be said of anyone not just cruise ship passengers. The very fact that they've been in cabin isolation for 14 plus days mitigates that risk in my view. I've seen other places where people are still flying to attend weddings, visit family and other "frivolous" reasons. I too have flight attend friends who are still flying. I also have friends who are paramedics, work in hospitals with far greater risk to their health on a daily basis much less during this pandemic.  How would we all be if they decided to stay home to avoid a much greater risk than a flight attendant has? 

Edited April 5, 2020 by cdwise
fixed typos

[DFD1]

Thank you, cdwise. Well said.

 

I see that United has put on a charter and will take the Aussies home today.

[cdwise]

Just now, DFD1 said:

Thank you, cdwise. Well said.

 

I see that United has put on a charter and will take the Aussies home today.

 

From the pictures I've seen of flights recently I'd have been surprised if there were very many other people on the scheduled flight anyway posted on twitter where there were as many as 8 rows between people. 

[bluesea321]

"The C.D.C. reverses course on how to get cruise ship passengers back home.  After weeks of allowing cruise ship passengers who were exposed to the coronavirus but had no symptoms to travel home on commercial flights with nothing more than a temperature check, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reversed course on Sunday.  Cruise companies will now have to charter flights to return passengers to their home cities, the agency said.  They may not use any public transportation or scheduled flights."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/world/coronavirus-live-news-updates.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-113cf855

Edited April 5, 2020 by bluesea321

[Tampa Girl]

15 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

"The C.D.C. reverses course on how to get cruise ship passengers back home.  After weeks of allowing cruise ship passengers who were exposed to the coronavirus but had no symptoms to travel home on commercial flights with nothing more than a temperature check, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reversed course on Sunday.  Cruise companies will now have to charter flights to return passengers to their home cities, the agency said.  They may not use any public transportation or scheduled flights."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/world/coronavirus-live-news-updates.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-113cf855

 

Are they trying to put the cruise lines out of business - or is this just a casual by-product of this new policy?

[bluesea321]

3 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

Are they trying to put the cruise lines out of business - or is this just a casual by-product of this new policy?

 

 I don't know the answers to your questions, the CDC is the only entity than can address them.  But here is another statement from them:

 

“In addition, our recommendations aim to keep people safe and healthy from the boat to their home for quarantine,” Kristen Nordlund, the spokeswoman, wrote in an email."

 

Just a guess perhaps, but seeing a Zaandam passenger arriving at the SFO airport with her mask off could have impacted this.

[cdwise]

Right so you have two passengers who live in small town Midwest so you are supposed to charter a plane for 2 people to say Salida Kansas, Port Aransas Texas or other such locations where there may or may not be an airport?

 

I still say that the cruise ship passengers are less likely to be positive than any random person who decides to fly under the current situation. Unless they have an "essential" need to travel such as a doctor going to provide treatment in a high incidence area they are more likely to be exposed because they don't care about risk/exposure.  You know like those spring break party folks. A chartered flight of UT students to Mexico had over 50 cases from one news report and not all of them who flew down on the charter came back on a charter either since UT was closed they flew back to their home towns.

Edited April 5, 2020 by cdwise

[1ANGELCAT]

53 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

 I don't know the answers to your questions, the CDC is the only entity than can address them.  But here is another statement from them:

 

“In addition, our recommendations aim to keep people safe and healthy from the boat to their home for quarantine,” Kristen Nordlund, the spokeswoman, wrote in an email."

 

Just a guess perhaps, but seeing a Zaandam passenger arriving at the SFO airport with her mask off could have impacted this.

Maybe the CDC rep FIRST needs to learn the difference between a BOAT and a SHIP before issuing recommendations.

[LHT28]

Might be cheaper for  the cruise line to rent a hotel   & quarantine  the pax until the 14 days are up  then they can fly on commercial flights

 pretty crazy to expect the lines to charter a plane for 2 people 

[cdwise]

3 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

Might be cheaper for  the cruise line to rent a hotel   & quarantine  the pax until the 14 days are up  then they can fly on commercial flights

 pretty crazy to expect the lines to charter a plane for 2 people 

 

I checked today and there were 27 flights from NYC to DEN. I know that I'd prefer to be on a flight with 130 cruise ship passengers than any of those flights.

[LHT28]

12 minutes ago, cdwise said:

 

I checked today and there were 27 flights from NYC to DEN. I know that I'd prefer to be on a flight with 130 cruise ship passengers than any of those flights.

I would rather  they stop  flying  period

In Canada  they want  you to stay home  & social distance if you must go out  but  they still allow people to fly cross Country  boggles the mind

[Tampa Girl]

1 hour ago, bluesea321 said:

 

 I don't know the answers to your questions, the CDC is the only entity than can address them.  But here is another statement from them:

 

“In addition, our recommendations aim to keep people safe and healthy from the boat to their home for quarantine,” Kristen Nordlund, the spokeswoman, wrote in an email."

 

Just a guess perhaps, but seeing a Zaandam passenger arriving at the SFO airport with her mask off could have impacted this.

 

Yes, I saw that. So the CDC is just looking out for the welfare of the passengers!  Touching.  Re the clueless passenger who pulled down her mask, I was thinking the same thing.  It might be a stretch to attribute that scene to the CDC, but that scene certainly did not help anything.   

[LHT28]

What about the guy at the bottom of the escalator  directing people  you would think he would have a mask on as well

[Essiesmom]

Since it was a charter of like passengers, do you believe each kept their masks on during the flight(s)?  Except fo eating/drinking... EM

[rafinmd]

32 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

Since it was a charter of like passengers, do you believe each kept their masks on during the flight(s)?  Except fo eating/drinking... EM

I would expect so for the sake of the cabin crew.  We are ALL asked to wear face covering when in public.  The purpose is to protect others, not the wearer.

 

Roy

Edited April 5, 2020 by rafinmd

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, 1ANGELCAT said:

Maybe the CDC rep FIRST needs to learn the difference between a BOAT and a SHIP before issuing recommendations.

 

I'd like to know the credentials of the person making another "Change of the Rules" during this crisis.  Consistency of what to expect produces confidence.  When the "Rules Change" during "the game",  this causes stress for all involved (as well as us onlookers) and makes me wonder:  "Who Is In Charge?"

[bluesea321]

1 hour ago, Essiesmom said:

Since it was a charter of like passengers, do you believe each kept their masks on during the flight(s)?  Except fo eating/drinking... EM

 

As part of the conditions to disembark from the ships each passenger was required to wear the mask at all times until arrival at their own homes and they were so instructed (eating and drinking excepted of course).  Some of the passengers may have been infected and those not infected surely would not want to be exposed to a careless companion.  And fwiw, all other passengers that were recorded on that video did wear their masks, at least while leaving the charter.  Good for them.

[BellKat]

On 4/4/2020 at 11:07 AM, 1ANGELCAT said:

My question is Seth Wayne the HAL Brand Ambassador , I believe was supposed to be on the charter flight from FLL to SFO. 
You would think before he continued to SEA  he would make sure all other passengers were taken care of , wouldn’t you ? 

Yes, he was. What do you think he was doing? Just sitting around doing nothing? Nope, he was working. He was working fielding phone calls while on Zaandam & Rotterdam. He was locked in his cabin just like everyone else but was working.  All he wanted to do was get home but because of the charter issue he didn’t get home until yesterday evening. It took him 3 charter flights to get home. I’m really not sure what you think just one person can do! This was an entire corporation all hands on deck situation. 

 

You would not believe the awful, horrible, despicable things people have said to him on Twitter, Facebook. It made me cry. He is such a great guy & didn’t deserve the vitriol that has been thrown at him - all by people who don’t cruise. Like everything that has happened in the cruise world was all his fault! Geez - the guy just started his job December 27 and was thrown into this situation right before his feet were even wet. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by BellKat

[aandjw]

Charter flight to Sydney now shows cancelled for tonight. Hopefully am error?

 

United 2839

UAL2839 / UA2839

 

CANCELLED

SFO SAN FRANCISCO, CA

SYD SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA

 

[charmed1959]

Even if those people have quarantined in their cabin for 14 days, if any of the people who made their food, plated their food, delivered their food, folded the extra sheets and towels, etc became infected from being around infected crew or picking up dishes or linens from infected cabins then everyone’s 14 days needs to start over.  
 

When the Hal ships docked there were 13 passengers on the well ship, the Rotterdam, that were sick.  Another 3 passengers from the Rotterdam were taken in ambulances to hospitals in Florida. Again, that’s the non-sick ship. Hal said 50 crew in addition to the one sent to the hospital are actively showing symptoms.  It did not say which ship they were on.  It’s not a stretch to assume all the people on those flights were exposed.  As for the lady without the mask, she looked winded, like she was having respiratory issues.  From that small snippet of film she looked like she could be infected.

 

Florida track cases pretty well.  In my small elderly county 12 of the first 26 cases were travelers from cruises.  I was thinking there could not possibly be cruisers still coming off of ships, but there are.  

[catl331]

3 hours ago, LHT28 said:

pretty crazy to expect the lines to charter a plane for 2 people

Not really. They can charter a small plane. Lots of bizjets and propjets in this country are available for hire.

Edited April 6, 2020 by catl331

[bluesea321]

11 minutes ago, aandjw said:

Charter flight to Sydney now shows cancelled for tonight. Hopefully am error?

United 2839

UAL2839 / UA2839

 

CANCELLED

SFO SAN FRANCISCO, CA

SYD SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA

 

That flight does show cancelled but how do you know that this was a charter for the HAL passengers?  I am not doubting you, I just was unable to confirm the charter.  Thanks.