Worried the solution might cause greater harm than the problem

[yankees111]

On 4/25/2020 at 9:53 AM, roger001 said:

I did see a news article today where Lysol is advising us to NOT inject their germ disinfecting solutions.  So, guess that option is off the NCL list of preventive measures.   

NCL was never going to inject Lysol into people!!!

[Corliss]

On 4/25/2020 at 4:46 AM, blcruising said:

People are now saying sunlight (UV) kills it, while Singapore is seeing an uptick in cases. 

 

The recent increase in Singapore is strictly related to migrant workers living in dormitories (up to 20 per room.)  Only 14 of the recent cases were Singaporians.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INeu716oaq8

 

[mugtech]

3 hours ago, Corliss said:

 

The recent increase in Singapore is strictly related to migrant workers living in dormitories (up to 20 per room.)  Only 14 of the recent cases were Singaporians.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INeu716oaq8

 

Too bad the migrant workers living in the dormatories never see the sun.  Are most of them miners?

[Corliss]

I'm assuming you haven't misunderstood Mr. Bryan and you realize he did not suggest if everyone just goes outside on a sunny day there will be no more coronavirus....:-)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INeu716oaq8

 

The information he presented at the Task Force press conference was very valuable and hopeful.  The media has been portraying the recent uptick in Singapore cases as an indication that mitigation was reduced too soon and that this is what can/will happen if everyone doesn't stay locked down.  As the actual information makes clear that is not the case.  I repeat only 14 Singaporeans were among the new cases.  As the video I linked also made clear there was no mitigation in those squalid dormitories. 

[PortFees45]

It was valuable and hopeful to suggest people inject disinfectants and get UV light "inside the body?" 

[Corliss]

22 minutes ago, PortFees45 said:

It was valuable and hopeful to suggest people inject disinfectants and get UV light "inside the body?" 

 

Yes, apparently.

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/26/pharmaceutical-firm-aytu-bioscience-testing-uv-lig/

[PortFees45]

4 minutes ago, Corliss said:

 

Yes, apparently.

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/26/pharmaceutical-firm-aytu-bioscience-testing-uv-lig/

Bless your heart. 

 

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/494744-poison-control-centers-report-increase-in-calls-pertaining-to-exposure-to

Edited April 27, 2020 by PortFees45

[vpearlkc]

57 minutes ago, Corliss said:

 

Yes, apparently.

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/26/pharmaceutical-firm-aytu-bioscience-testing-uv-lig/

Wow. Straight from the Moonie paper.

[yankees111]

2 hours ago, PortFees45 said:

It was valuable and hopeful to suggest people inject disinfectants and get UV light "inside the body?" 

Thinking outside the box is hardly a bad thing.  Until a vaccine is perfected all forms of therapy should be encouraged by all but only executed if agreed upon by the masses but only with scientific data of course. Leadership doing the best that they can at all levels. God bless the USA!

[mugtech]

1 hour ago, yankees111 said:

 Leadership doing the best that they can at all levels.

Sorry to hear that.

[don't-use-real-name]

To cruise in the future - you must have a license to cruise -

 

Qualification-Requirement is to cruise aboard a sterile ship with radiation UV bleaching pools -

only eat food that has been sufficiently washy washy spray misted.

Cabins will have a no touch feature of a Bidet no TP required -

No touch communications - Alexa and Siri will be your hosts.

If contamination is suspect you will be provided a space suit and quarantined to a life boat

until it is safe to return to your cabin.

 

After being certified to cruise in a sterile environment you must maintain space contact as

required from those who are yet to be cleansed/certified for cruise.

 

And this is Phase 1 - you don't want to read about the botched screwed up government plans for the next ! 

 

The FAUX government doctor will see you now !

[hamrag]

On 4/25/2020 at 12:46 PM, blcruising said:

.....So, they simply don't know. What we know is that the virus evidently thrives when large volumes of people get together in close quarters for long periods of time.

 

On 4/25/2020 at 1:08 PM, mjkacmom said:

We are at 52,000 after social distancing, with only a few states hit hard so far, it’s only April. This is just the beginning. At some point the majority of people will have been infected.

 

The quote (posted above yours) you responded to is factual....I have bolded the specific factual words, for your convenience!

 

That is the sole reason why cruising isn't gonna be happening anytime this calendar year....IMHO, YMMV!

 

Oh, and this is a worldwide virus, affecting not only the US of A. On our 46 cruises thus far, across 4 continents, the passenger profile has been International although probably as high as 75% North American on return cruises from/to USA ports. 😉

Edited April 27, 2020 by hamrag

[vpearlkc]

7 hours ago, yankees111 said:

Thinking outside the box is hardly a bad thing.  Until a vaccine is perfected all forms of therapy should be encouraged by all but only executed if agreed upon by the masses but only with scientific data of course. Leadership doing the best that they can at all levels. God bless the USA!

Our great leader wasn't thinking thinking outside the box. He was just being sarcastic. It's time we all kept up with the narrative.

[mugtech]

33 minutes ago, vpearlkc said:

Our great leader wasn't thinking thinking outside the box. He was just being sarcastic. It's time we all kept up with the narrative.

Same grasp of sarcasm as Sheldon Cooper circa 2008.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

The OP's original point has, unfortunately, gotten lost here.

 

It got bashed endlessly, but actually was a legitimate concern.

 

I'd like to believe the cruise lines would be entirely honorable and ethical in any shipwide disinfection or other cleaning process. That's what most of us would like to believe.

 

The cruise lines' hideous records of skirting/ducking environmental regulations suggests that such belief would be more of a hopeful guess.

[MagnoliaBlossom]

Regarding sanitation standards on cruise ships in American waters - it is regulated, inspected and tracked by the US Coast Guard. They inspect the ship each time it returns to port.


76 past cruises
Upcoming:
NCL Getaway 3/29/2020
NCL Breakaway 1/10/2021
CCL Dream 5/16/2021

[winterbliss]

I'm a retired nurse and I do believe it's possible that to some extent the solutions put in place can do greater harm. Yes, there has no doubt been a significant health crisis and many deaths across the globe and to lose a loved one for any reason is difficult to bear. But I am one who has great skepticism in many of the so called experts, both individuals and organizations who have been at the forefront of this pandemic (and politicians who portray that everything that is being done is for 'our' good health). We all need to ask questions and learn to become critical thinkers to the best of our ability. You're probably thinking I need to be on another completely different forum for alot of this......agreed.

 

The fact is (and one can easily research this) that germs and bacteria are not all bad and in order to build strong immune systems, we need certain microbial organisms. If we get used to a 'sterile' environment, for lack of a better word, our immune systems will ultimately be weakened. That isn't beneficial. Healthy people isolating in our homes for the past while......we have been living in a bubble. So CroozFanatic, I think your question is a very valid and important concern. And, obviously, any of us can choose not to go on a cruise if we don't like how cruise ships will have to operate in the future. I am more concerned for our health as a whole in so many aspects going forward. It is my hope that when cruising returns with what we can reasonably assume will be enhanced plus, plus, plus precautions...........that eventually things will return to common sense basic hygiene and regular handwashing with soap and water.....cover our mouths when we cough/sneeze, etc., etc. (yes, probably wishful thinking at this moment in time).

 

With wishes for continued enjoyable cruising to all who are looking forward to same.

[graphicguy]

On 4/25/2020 at 11:08 AM, numberguy said:

Actually, I read (via a youtube video) that Carnival Corporation will be asking everyone to wash their hands at sinks where the staff can see you before entering the buffet, and that buffet food will be served to you by staff.  I'm guessing, but pretty sure, that this will become the industry standard.

 

Perhaps they'll install sinks or require that passengers use the hand sanitizer before they're let into the dining rooms, too.

Sailed on their (relatively) new Vista.  They had some really nice, automatic washing stations at each buffet entrance.  No one policing them to make sure everyone used them, so I'm betting they'll be mandating that, now.

 

You just stick your hands in the washing station and they're bombarded with water and soap, then rinsed.  You don't even have to rub your hands together.  Pretty nifty.

 

I would imagine NCL will make it mandatory, also.

[Laszlo]

On 4/25/2020 at 8:44 PM, jlmd56 said:

If you don't feel safe, then don't travel. Our cruise in March was canceled and I can't wait until the July 24 replacement cruise.

I wouldn't count on that happening at all

[mking8288]

OK, I will yield & give the benefits of the doubt on whether a clinical trial to see if a specialized UV light application - results pending - can work or not ... like n.i. cyberknife procedures used in chemo, not a DIY attempt on a modified hi-output laser pointer. 

 

But, the other suggestion resulted in urgent warnings from the makers of Lysol and Clorox to not drink or inject their product, with much of the world into laughter, one news outlet called it a shameful moment.  Maybe, well intentional inside a briefing room to brainstorm but absolutely inappropriate as a high profile public briefing seen live on world stage.  Consequently, numerous Poison Control Centers fielding calls about how & what to do ...  

 

Instead of just being sarcastic, how about demonstrating empathy - that's what we do in the profession; and, "do no harm".   Before the end of this April, US will exceed 1 million infections with the official death toll not far from the optimistic 60,000 in the US (by August.) 

 

Perhaps, we are prepared to give up our most vulnerable, the older & special population and those at high-risk (anyone without immunity) ...  What about the essential & frontline workers in all these, including the healthcare personnel - why should they risk their own lives for the rest of "us"   The fix and solution for having enough PPE hasn't been addressed yet but funny & sad that we quickly found hundreds of refrigerator trailers around the country, and more are available as our meat plants have less need for them.  The choices are in our hands, and, out of our hands.  Indeed. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by mking8288

[Vyhanek]

Worrying about the concoctions is literally the last thing I worry about.

 

I like the spray washy washy.   Worrying about what it's made of is nearly the last thing anyone worry about.   

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

4 hours ago, MagnoliaBlossom said:

Regarding sanitation standards on cruise ships in American waters - it is regulated, inspected and tracked by the US Coast Guard. They inspect the ship each time it returns to port.


76 past cruises
Upcoming:
NCL Getaway 3/29/2020
NCL Breakaway 1/10/2021
CCL Dream 5/16/2021

A fine system so long as the cruise line isn't involved in a deception conspiracy.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/cruise-line-ordered-pay-40-million-illegal-dumping-oil-contaminated-waste-and-falsifying
 

In fairness to the cruise industry, I've never thought during any of our 10 cruises that we'd been served tainted food nor exposed to chemical hazards onboard (they were always scrupulous about warning in advance when window washers would be working & balcony doors had to be closed.)
 

Nevertheless, the industry's track record on environmental regulation is atrocious. Would I trust a cash-starving corporation to keep passengers' long-term health as its top concern when ordering a new generation of anti-COVID decontamination supplies for application between cruises?  That's a question each cruiser would answer  for themselves ... probably wouldn't be a game-changer for me, but the OP surely raised a legitimate question. It's unfortunate that so few people offered constructive responses.

[Newleno]

17 hours ago, PortFees45 said:

It was valuable and hopeful to suggest people inject disinfectants and get UV light "inside the body?" 

This stuff changes every day, so now the government  sais that disinfectants and sunlight is bad?, this does not make sense to me, just like when i said it does not makes sense not to wear gloves and masks when going out, I will still uses wipes, gloves, shield for face and disinfectant surfaces, wash clothes.  I really dont care that the experts are against it.  I will also sit outside when sunny, we all need vitamin D, this is just crazy now to suggest you dont need light.  Light and disinfectants are bad - crazy talk

[luv2kroooz]

5 hours ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

I'd like to believe the cruise lines would be entirely honorable and ethical in any shipwide disinfection or other cleaning process. That's what most of us would like to believe.

But even if they do everything they say....sanitize, sanitize, sanitize...until the moment some nasty passenger comes along and sneezes into their hand and then presses an elevator button, touches a door handle, touches a menu, etc. You can mitigate spread by sanitizing, but you can't eliminate it. It's why I said a few threads ago, until there is a vaccine, you'll have to accept some level of risk if you decide to cruise.  Temperature checks don't work, health questions don't work, having masks doesn't work in prevention. Mitigation ..yes.  Risk reduction...yes. Public perception....yes.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

9 minutes ago, blcruising said:

But even if they do everything they say....sanitize, sanitize, sanitize...until the moment some nasty passenger comes along and sneezes into their hand and then presses an elevator button, touches a door handle, touches a menu, etc. You can mitigate spread by sanitizing, but you can't eliminate it. It's why I said a few threads ago, until there is a vaccine, you'll have to accept some level of risk if you decide to cruise.  Temperature checks don't work, health questions don't work, having masks doesn't work in prevention. Mitigation ..yes.  Risk reduction...yes. Public perception....yes.

Agreed. 

To me, though, the OP's point spoke to secondary risks potentially created by sanitizing procedures. In the end, I don't think I'd avoid cruising for because of that risk ... but I wouldn't put it beyond the cruise lines (or a particularly unscrupulous manager) to apply some hazardous chemical as a shortcut in a ship decontamination procedure.