Will There Be Any Cruising At All In 2020?

[Newleno]

10 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

we got a late start, didnt take it serious enough in the beginning. 

Yes  Dr Fauci  and others made mistakes but they all were working very hard and still are.  They are still figuring it out,  Yes I agree seems odd that many in NYC and others were saying go out, have a great time, nothing to worry about.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Newleno

[seaman11]

1 minute ago, Newleno said:

Yes  Dr Fauci  and others made mistakes but they all were working very hard and still are.  They are still figuring it out,  Yes I agree seems odd that many in NYC were saying go out, have a great time, nothing to worry about.

in jan ,this could have been bottled up. only a few cases in the us, quarantine any americans coming in from the countries effected. but instead they dismissed it ,and it cost lives and money. 

[Wizpharm2]

12 minutes ago, david_sobe said:

The United States has 4% of the world population yet we have 26% of all Covid-19 deaths.  We are doing something wrong.

Reporting real numbers...do you really believe China’s data?

[npcl]

6 minutes ago, Wizpharm2 said:

Reporting real numbers...do you really believe China’s data?

For that do you believe the data coming out of any of the 3rd world, relatively poor countries.  Largely due to their limited ability to actually capture the data. (limited medical, limited testing, poor public health infrastructure, etc)

[OceanBlueWaters]

18 minutes ago, david_sobe said:

The United States has 4% of the world population yet we have 26% of all Covid-19 deaths.  We are doing something wrong.

Not gonna fact check your numbers, but maybe the US is being honest with their numbers, unlike other countries...

JMO

[mking8288]

LOL, I don't trust our own country's numbers either, not for a moment. (That's good old US of A) 

 

Show me the way.  Let's account for all the suspected/possible at-home deaths, nursing & group home deaths (most of them, never tested for Covid-19 = neither confirm nor deny) or those that passed in group/veteran homes & in hospice.  How about those incarcerated behind bars - reports of outbreaks are beginning to populate ... 

 

"We" are play our number games as well, no different than pointing fingers against others - it is old fashion accounting tricks and basic Statistics 101.  

 

The body counts outside in those parked refrigerated trailers tell its own story ... I drove past our local Level 1 Trauma Center/ED @ Hospital #32 on Main Street earlier, sitting pretty - just 3 tall trailers today.  

Edited April 30, 2020 by mking8288

[Wizpharm2]

I agree that all countries numbers are circumspect... include US.

Many who die out side of hospital or who were not tested, may not be counted.

But since states/hospitals receive additional federal dollars for each case, every death is being coded as COVID-19.  And reimbursement is especially high if the patient was vented.

[OceanBlueWaters]

3 minutes ago, mking8288 said:

LOL, I don't trust our own country's numbers either, not for a moment. (That's good old US of A) 

 

Show me the way.  Let's account for all the suspected/possible at-home deaths, nursing & group home deaths (most of them, never tested for Covid-19 = neither confirm nor deny) or those that passed in group/veteran homes & in hospice.  How about those incarcerated behind bars - reports of outbreaks are beginning to populate ... 

 

"We" are play our numbers - it is old fashion accounting tricks and basic Statistics 101.

OMG!  You read my mind!  I was just trying to make sense of it and somehow justify numbers.  We will never know the true numbers which is so very sad.

So agree with you..

 

[OceanBlueWaters]

Also, hideous Funerals Homes in NJ/NY who were/are stacking bodies in UHaul trucks which alerted police from citizens due to drippings/smell.

So very sad...

 

[david_sobe]

1 hour ago, Wizpharm2 said:

Reporting real numbers...do you really believe China’s data?

Of course not.  Cut China from the equation and the USA has still a disproportionate amount of deaths.

Its ok to admit the facts.  It seems so many want to live in denial

[david_sobe]

1 hour ago, Newleno said:

I concur globalism has benefits but also negative characteristics, the same goes for human rights, although I believe human rights are important, some do not.  In addition once again I would not take any numbers given at this point of time as fact, it is just raw data that needs to be analyzed and vetted.

Never said any of that. Not sure what you want to portray.  Just reporting the facts and it seems they are inconvenient facts that many don't want to fit in their spin or political narrative.

[Wizpharm2]

40 minutes ago, david_sobe said:

Of course not.  Cut China from the equation and the USA has still a disproportionate amount of deaths.

Its ok to admit the facts.  It seems so many want to live in denial

Not if you look at deaths per million of population.

US is at 192/1,000,000 while UK is 394, Italy at 463 and Spain is at 525.

[seaman11]

20 minutes ago, Wizpharm2 said:

Not if you look at deaths per million of population.

US is at 192/1,000,000 while UK is 394, Italy at 463 and Spain is at 525.

nevermind read it wrong 

Edited May 1, 2020 by seaman11

[hamrag]

12 hours ago, seaman11 said:

i agree, it should happen this summer in a few ports , barring any covid setbacks. 

 

I respectfully disagree, Uncle Albert! 😏 

 

[hamrag]

11 hours ago, OceanBlueWaters said:

Not gonna fact check your numbers, but maybe the US is being honest with their numbers, unlike other countries...

JMO

 Or....they aren't, and other countries are! 😉

Edited May 1, 2020 by hamrag

[Newleno]

10 hours ago, Wizpharm2 said:

Not if you look at deaths per million of population.

US is at 192/1,000,000 while UK is 394, Italy at 463 and Spain is at 525.

i dont know if your numbers are an accurate statistical description but if they are, well "Just reporting the facts and it seems they are inconvenient facts that many don't want to fit in their spin or political narrative"

[Trimone]

Nothing is going to happen until spring/summer 2021 

 

Been saying that since March 1st.

[onetimearoundtheworld]

The only really interesting number which is not influenced by how you count is the excess mortality. And from the numbers I saw is that it differs a lot from region to region so the quality of the medical system and accessibility for everyone might be an important factor. 

[vpearlkc]

I was thinking the odds of our going on our April 2021 cruise on the Breakaway were about 5%. We have decided now that there is no chance. Even if the cruise goes on as scheduled we will not be on it. Too much can happen between final payment and cruise. If we ever cruise again it will be last minute with payment made a week or two before cruising.

 

 

[Wizpharm2]

5 hours ago, onetimearoundtheworld said:

The only really interesting number which is not influenced by how you count is the excess mortality. And from the numbers I saw is that it differs a lot from region to region so the quality of the medical system and accessibility for everyone might be an important factor. 

Although I agree that excess mortality will be interesting to study, it will only provide part of the story and as current mortality is being influenced by a reduction in trauma related deaths (folks not engaged in high risk activities right now) and deaths associated with people not seeking treatment for a preventable death event (heart attacks, etc) due to fear of contracting COVID-19 during an interaction with medical staff/facility.

[AdoraBelle]

The same people who say "China numbers are fake" are usually the same people who, a few months ago, were yelling about how draconian China's lockdown measures were. (Which they were, which is how they were able to contain the spread better. One upside of an authoritarian government, I guess, versus whatever have in the US now. Demented oligarchy?)

 

China also has a much lower body mass index on average than the US, and we know that's a major contributor to poor outcomes. 

[kwokpot]

19 hours ago, Wizpharm2 said:

I agree that all countries numbers are circumspect... include US.

Many who die out side of hospital or who were not tested, may not be counted.

But since states/hospitals receive additional federal dollars for each case, every death is being coded as COVID-19.  And reimbursement is especially high if the patient was vented.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

Edited May 1, 2020 by kwokpot

[latserrof]

19 hours ago, Dlarruso said:

The way the Cruise industry handled this on the front end leads me to believe that they will open the very second that ports are open and there are no government restrictions on them sailing.  I don't believe the industry cares about any other metrics related to COVID-19. 

I don't necessarily disagree. But I do wonder whether even the cruise industry itself really believes that more hand sanitizers will  prevent another Diamond, Ruby, Coral, Zaandam, etc. , or is the industry just bluffing to keep hope alive and the cash-flow positive? I know the industry can't survive long without sailing, but are they really ready to face the risk of another debacle? 

 

I can't see cruising coming back anytime soon, if ever. There are just too many obstacles. It's easy to say that the cruise lines just have to do x, or y or  z. But can they do all that,  at the same time, while still dealing with the current fallout?

The Herald says Carnival alone, (the line, not the corporation) is currently sending nine of its ships to Europe, Asia, Africa and Latin America to take home some 10,000 crew members. A big cruise line supplier here in Los Angeles has begun selling off all its foodstuffs to the public. We ourselves are currently working on trying to get refunds from Princess, Cunard, Norwegian and HAL, and those dealings, along with cruisers accounts on these boards, make it seem like cruise line offices are in chaos.

 

Of course it's not up to the cruise line to determine when cruising can resume. First is the question  "what will the virus will do?" And then "what will governments do?"

 

There's a lot of pieces to the puzzle, and they will all have to be in place before cruising starts again, and even if that happens, will they work?

 

[Wizpharm2]

28 minutes ago, kwokpot said:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

Thanks for sharing...

[kwokpot]

1 minute ago, Wizpharm2 said:

Thanks for sharing...

The analysis done in those reports show that the deaths attributed to Covid19 are not wrongly associated and those deaths would have occurred anyway. It shows if anything Covid19 deaths are being underreported, not over reported. I wish these kinds of analysis were being more widely reported. It gives some context to the daily # of deaths.