Italy Closed to Tourism for the rest of 2020?

[Host Jazzbeau]

I hear ya, but DW has a rich network of friends in our area and won't leave.

[Host Bonjour]

10 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Accordingly, I once calculated that we are "up" over $100,000 which represents the money we havesaved by NOT buying trip insurance.  We do purchase an annual Travel Medical policy that is relatively inexpensive but gives us up to $250,000 of medical coverage that is good for all the trips we take over an entire year.  We have chosen to "self insure" both cancellation and interruption (this means we do not buy that kind of insurance) although we do take advantage of the credit card cancellation/interruption benefits offered as part of the higher end Chase credit cards.

 

Well....you kind of bought trip insurance. It's kind of like buying a printer at a computer store (not using any names) and declining the offer of a three year warranty for $29 dollars or whatever. It's a money-maker, people forget they have it or the printer never breaks, either way, the company keeps all the money. If the customer should ever make a claim....it's probably GOOD LUCK getting paid for the broken printer. I never buy the warranty. I do what you do. But it's easy to see how or why others don't. 

 

So there's the GeoBlue, the Chase, you've hooked up components to create your insurance but it IS travel insurance. Just not the printer policy no one needs. You got exactly what you needed, which is always the winning move, true to the Hank brand. 😉 

And thank goodness! You got your DW comfortably/safely out of Vietnam without complications. It is NOT great to be overseas and not feeling well or in pain. 

 

Chase Sapphire and other high end credit travel cards can be well worth the annual fees for travelers like Hank or Jazz or anyone spending a nice amount of time/money on travel (and other things) for the cancellation coverage and other benefits available.

A lot of folks balk at a $400 (give or take) fee but earning miles, entrance to some airport lounges, and other fun things, these insurance coverages could be among the best values on offer. Card issuers might do better business if they tallied up a theoretical value of the potential benefits but they can't; if enough people could view it that way, they'd sign up in a minute. It's good stuff in there, unless you don't expect to use most of it. I think The Points Guy does a comparison of cards that breaks down the membership fees of these cards vs value of perks to help people determine whether or not it pays to get the card so if you're not sure of how to break it down, (cost/benefit analysis for anyone keeping score out there...) he does it for you. Or else...I say hit up Hank, he worked in insurance. 🤣

 

Insurance gets ridiculously complicated. Shopping for it maybe feels like having a tooth pulled; you have to pay money for the "what if" scenarios no one wants to have happen and so is everyone feeling easy when shopping for it? Maybe not. I use to toss those thick benefits enrollment packages under my bed because I didn't want to read ALL THE PAGES of blah blah blah and then flip back and forth...ugh. What if I pick the wrong one????? 

 

You guys have to come hang out in the next Q & A; last one was busy–I think the next one will be a barn-raiser. Given what's happened and how things are evolving (??) we may all be having to bring wads of cash with us, and masks, if we want to go anywhere, for awhile in the future. Which means I'll be sitting here typing quite awhile as I wait for my local beach sticker.... 

 

Insurance gives me the heebie-jeebies. (Pardon the tech-speak)

 

 

[steamboats]

Seems like this thread turns into an insurance thread 😉 - German insurance is totally different. I can insure a single trip (which is pretty expensive as it depends on the amount you pay for the trip). Or I can have a yearly insurance. That option is way cheaper. I do need health insurance for traveling. Mean thing currently... as long as there is a travel warning health insurance won´t step in... although the travel warning is because of Covid-19 the insurance won´t cover any costs when I break my leg in Italy (or the US). So as long as this warning is up I actually can´t even travel within Europe... The other part is trip cancellation - same options, single or yearly. My insurance company does even cover a pandemic (most don´t). But here in Germany the reasons for cancellation are pretty limited - basically an illness, death of a traveler or close family member, pregnancy, job loss... We do not know a cancellation for any reason.

 

Back to the topic... Italy is chiming in in opening up the inner European borders. They first start to open up certain provinces for travel (those which weren´t affected that much). Germany is starting to open up the borders today. EU plans to open up the inner borders June 15th... So we might have some traveling soon and maybe I can at least visit my family in South Tyrol (they had only 1 case in their valley).

 

steamboats

[steamboats]

So Italy announced to open up the borders on June 3rd. Tonight Germany opened the borders to Austria and Switzerland.

 

As for Italy on Monday the first measures are starting... bars, restaurants are allowed to open up (with distance) same for shops, hair dressers, beauty salons.... South Tyrol started already this Monday.

 

So Italy is slowly opeing up...

 

steamboats

[Host Jazzbeau]

The articles I have found about Italy's reopening say 'without restriction' and 'no quarantine.'  This is a much wider re-opening than I had been expecting this early.  Let's hope it works without triggering a new wave of infections.

[Hlitner]

We did spend some time reading the PM's statement (from Saturday) about reopening Italy.  The reality is that in a matter of a few short weeks he has gone from one extreme to the other.  The reality for Italy (and eventually most of the world will understand the wisdom) is that shutting down entire countries because of a virus that might kill 1% of its victims ) is a very heavy price.  While it sounds good to say that every life matters, there are many lives that depend on the economy.  Tourism represents about 13% of Italy's entire GDP and shutting that off for the rest of the year is not to be politically expedient.  So now, we are likely to see many countries going from one extreme to the other as they rush to reopen their economies (while they still have an economy) and find a way to resurrect their tourism business while also minimizing the virus risk.  It is a tough task.  

 

My own hunch is that the damage is done and the summer tourist season will be a disaster.   Most tours have already cancelled, airlines are curtailed schedules, cruises have been cancelled, and many folks are too terrified to even consider international travel.  I join with others is praying that the re openings go well and does not cause a surge in new COVID-19 cases.

 

Hank

[steamboats]

10 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

The articles I have found about Italy's reopening say 'without restriction' and 'no quarantine.' 

 

So far the outer EU borders are closed for non EU travelers til June 15th. So starting June 3rd there won´t be much traveling at all. News are changing so fast but I don´t think I can travel from Germany to Italy on June 3rd. We still have a travel warning til June 15th so my health insurance won´t cover me when I travel...

 

steamboats

[VMax1700]

8 hours ago, Hlitner said:

The reality for Italy (and eventually most of the world will understand the wisdom) is that shutting down entire countries because of a virus that might kill 1% of its victims ) is a very heavy price

 

It seems the shut downs was not to save the possible victims, but to save the hospitals/health service from going into meltdown.  At least that is the situation in Ireland.  It was always to ease the strain on hospitals.

[CruiserBruce]

Just now, VMax1700 said:

 

It seems the shut downs was not to save the possible victims, but to save the hospitals/health service from going into meltdown.  At least that is the situation in Ireland.  It was always to ease the strain on hospitals.

The hospital situation was a key point, but not the only point.

[ela05]

On 5/16/2020 at 10:55 AM, steamboats said:

So Italy announced to open up the borders on June 3rd.

 

 

 

 

Hi everybody, this is not true: on June 3rd Italy will open "borders" between regions (I mean people from Milan may go to Naples or people from Rome may go to Sicily), while borders with other EU contries stay closed until June 15th, but the final decision depends on the number of new cases in these last days...we'll get to know something more this week end.

And yes, VMAX1700 you're right, ICU in hospital were full, some patients were transferred from northern Italy to south because most hospitals had no places for people in very serious conditions...so the lock down helped to overcome the critical moment and to prevent new cases...now we all (well, almost all) go out wearing masks, you can't go in shops or indoor public places without it, school are still closed, and will only reopen on september, many people are back to work, but we're not out of it, not yet...

Edited May 28, 2020 by ela05

[steamboats]

@ela05 here in Germany it was said that the borders are open by June 3rd. The EU borders stay closed til June 15th. We recently opened our borders to Austria, Switzerland and France. Others stay closed. And our general travel warning will be lifted on June 15th for 31 countries (EU and Schengen).

 

So although the borders might be open within the next few days we won´t be able to travel because of the travel warning.

 

steamboats

[ela05]

Ok the latest update is that Italy is opening her borders to Schengen countries, unfortunately, although Italy is currently at the thirty-eighth place in the world list of covid19 infections, many European countries have no intention of opening their borders to Italian tourists ... not a big problem for us, since here we have enough beauties to do not regret any holiday abroad, but it sounds a bit discriminatory ... some countries, for example the Netherlands, continue to paint us like slackers waiting only for subsidies from the EU ...we have been in severe lockdown for two months, we use masks, social distancing and make every effort  to contain the virus, more than other  countries and for a longer period but prejudice is hard to defeat...

[Host Bonjour]

It's quite a patchwork of openings, and it sounds like it will be a know-before-you-go for EU/non-EU continent residents, maybe harkening back to times when there were borders or other eras when moving around was different for the time being. The New York Times article summarizes which countries are open to which and when, what if any quarantine periods there are, and the few countries that are open to international (US) travelers (not many without a 14 day self quarantine period). 

 

Europe's Patchwork Reopening The New York Times

 

I won't link to the article about Venice; locals chatted about an eagerness to reclaim it for themselves, and artists, students, and entrepreneurs. There's acknowledgment in the piece about the improbability (or challenge) of that happening 😉 

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, Host Bonjour said:

It's quite a patchwork of openings, and it sounds like it will be a know-before-you-go for EU/non-EU continent residents, maybe harkening back to times when there were borders or other eras when moving around was different for the time being. The New York Times article summarizes which countries are open to which and when, what if any quarantine periods there are, and the few countries that are open to international (US) travelers (not many without a 14 day self quarantine period). 

 

Europe's Patchwork Reopening The New York Times

 

I won't link to the article about Venice; locals chatted about an eagerness to reclaim it for themselves, and artists, students, and entrepreneurs. There's acknowledgment in the piece about the improbability (or challenge) of that happening 😉 

LOL re Venice.  We love Venice and have spent more then our share of time in that city (on cruises and our own independent land trips).  To say that some Venetians bite the hands that feed would be an understatement.  I don't think there are many other cities in the world that are so dependent on tourism.  Most Venetians are well aware of this and support tourism.  But there are always a few (and they are the ones who seem to be the most vocal) that would keep out the tourists and destroy their economy (and certainly blame others for the dilemma).  

 

In the interest of full disclosure, I personally am opposed to allowing large cruise ships (lets say over 100,000 tons) from docking in Venice.  I share the concerns of many that the so-called "over pressure" from large ships coming down the Giuducca Canal are contributing to the decay/destruction of many building foundations along that large canal.    On the other hand, I strongly recommend that everyone get to Venice ASAP and arriving by cruise ship (of any size) is among the greatest experiences in all of cruising.

 

Hank

[Host Jazzbeau]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

LOL re Venice.  We love Venice and have spent more then our share of time in that city (on cruises and our own independent land trips).  To say that some Venetians bite the hands that feed would be an understatement.  I don't think there are many other cities in the world that are so dependent on tourism.  Most Venetians are well aware of this and support tourism.  But there are always a few (and they are the ones who seem to be the most vocal) that would keep out the tourists and destroy their economy (and certainly blame others for the dilemma). 

 

A tangential example of this was a tour guide we had in Venice who went on a rant about Donna Leon's mystery novels set in Venice because they emphasize the seamy side of Venetian politics and crime.  Hello??? – that's what mystery novels do!!!  But they also drum up interest in tourists [specifically me, who had naively asked about these books because they made me want to see the non-touristy places her tour was hyped to see] who give her business!  She didn't get a tip from us – so, if you plan to bite the hand that feeds you, you should wait until after dinner...

[onyx007]

On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2020 at 3:48 AM, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

A tangential example of this was a tour guide we had in Venice who went on a rant about Donna Leon's mystery novels set in Venice because they emphasize the seamy side of Venetian politics and crime.  Hello??? – that's what mystery novels do!!!  But they also drum up interest in tourists [specifically me, who had naively asked about these books because they made me want to see the non-touristy places her tour was hyped to see] who give her business!  She didn't get a tip from us – so, if you plan to bite the hand that feeds you, you should wait until after dinner...

 

That's the reason the books are not published in Italian but only in english and german (and maybe nowadays some other languages). As I understood Donna Leon want's to keep a low profile and not be recognised by her neighbors and probably because some Venicians might not appriciate their description (she probably also takes real life experience and maybe some characters might be recognised)

[marazul]

According to her bio on the book covers,  Donna Leon now lives in Switzerland. 

[Host Jazzbeau]

5 hours ago, marazul said:

According to her bio on the book covers,  Donna Leon now lives in Switzerland. 

 

When Venice sinks into the sea, Switzerland will become oceanfront property!  😉

[Host Bonjour]

On 6/5/2020 at 6:59 PM, Hlitner said:

I share the concerns of many that the so-called "over pressure" from large ships coming down the Giuducca Canal are contributing to the decay/destruction of many building foundations along that large canal.    On the other hand, I strongly recommend that everyone get to Venice ASAP and arriving by cruise ship (of any size) is among the greatest experiences in all of cruising.

 

 

I'm with you there, Hank, knowing full well where I'm typing right now. I don't know how much most ships and boats weigh (or most modes of transit aside from cars because it's typically printed on the registration, otherwise.....) but I'm not against boats or smaller ships and seeing Venice from the sea. The canal should be UNESCO'd too, if possible (by extension to Venice) in order to preserve it. Seriously: since the city is more or less "paved" with canals, not streets, and the water flows in/out daily from the sea, makes sense that preservation of the terrain is directly connected to what's around it.

 

Plenty of ways to see Venice from the water and keep the sea water and canals safe and clean, or other ways to arrive into Venice. The arrival by train is quite iconic too, it's shown in many films and television shows and quite something to seem to be traveling for quite awhile with water all around. You KNOW where you're going to be very soon and it's a unique place in the world.

 

As to the seemy, novelistic vision...this happens with every place. Almost every place in the world has an "icky" spot (cities, can't count remaining natural, unspoiled places) and one can LOVE love love where they come from (I do) and know it has icky spots (I could never deny it anyway) or truths. Perhaps the guide was only worried that other traveler's ideas of dreamy Venice would be spoiled if people were to realize that yes, even Venice had a dark corner, even if it were only uno, due....some tourists (tourists, not travelers) only want the fairytale, not reality. Disney Venice, not actual Venice, which is wonderful, but like many places, complex. The Bridge of Sighs history is rather dark! 

 

On my way to the Blue Mountains in Sydney I asked a local about a book I'd read (popular at the time) written by a woman who'd said she'd spent a long time with aborigines, it was fascinating. Some Aussies weren't so sure about its veracity because, and it's true, aborigines do not typically bring outsiders into their company. Can't recall the circumstances of how she said she got with them, and it was incredibly descriptive, detailed. Who knows. It wasn't written as fiction so hopefully the aboriginal details were authentic and none of that was being discounted, and I wasn't about to challenge as a visitor! I'd already been told I couldn't immigrate when I said how much I loved Australia, which was absolutely true, but I hadn't meant it as a declaration of intent to relocate. So I caught on about when to stay quiet about thoughts and feelings.... 😉 

 

Maybe I'll look for those Donna Leon books. She'd have a tough time finding seedy places in Switzerland 🤣 (Well, it is there, less seedy in the traditional sense, more of a hidden underbelly, looks a lot prettier 😱 ) 

[bennybear]

With the prices in Switzerland  maybe they   attract a higher class of criminals.   😂😂 I say this very tongue in cheek.   I have Swiss heritage and I was dumbfounded by the prices.   

[Hlitner]

24 minutes ago, bennybear said:

With the prices in Switzerland  maybe they   attract a higher class of criminals.   😂😂 I say this very tongue in cheek.   I have Swiss heritage and I was dumbfounded by the prices.   

I used to think Switzerland was expensive until I visited Norway!  Argh!

 

Hank

[bennybear]

So true,   A few years ago in Norway I saw the exact north face jacket I had paid 200$ for the equivalent of $1000!     

[Host Jazzbeau]

3 hours ago, Host Bonjour said:

 

I'd already been told I couldn't immigrate when I said how much I loved Australia, which was absolutely true, but I hadn't meant it as a declaration of intent to relocate...

 

Someone, in a probably apopcryphal but 'too good to fact-check' story, on arriving in Australia was asked by the border control agent if she had ever committed a felony.  She replied, "I didn't know it was still mandatory!"  

[Host Bonjour]

On 6/18/2020 at 1:03 AM, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

Someone, in a probably apopcryphal but 'too good to fact-check' story, on arriving in Australia was asked by the border control agent if she had ever committed a felony.  She replied, "I didn't know it was still mandatory!"  

 

Good times. 😉  

 

I do recommend the Quarantine Station (aka Q Station) as an itinerary stop for those with pre/post cruise or land-only visits. Fascinating historical details, not to mention some wonderful vistas. These places always did seem to be not too far from the sea, though one definitely was not getting a room with a view. 

[Host Bonjour]

On 6/17/2020 at 10:06 PM, Hlitner said:

I used to think Switzerland was expensive until I visited Norway!  Argh!

 

That's what a family member reported; her first-ever European trip and she was there on a per-diem that was based on the government rate because she worked for a contractor. And she's super frugal, so....a particular challenge! She did buy one of those....what do you call the furry hats with the flaps, I know there's a name for it. Came in handy for another work trip to Moscow, the money went farther there! 

 

It wasn't too difficult to find somewhat affordable things in Switzerland, but I was ready for it to be a bit more expensive than the other countries I was visiting on my first-ever European trip. Don't know if I was ready for what the shopping looked like because it made Paris and NYC look...well....nice effort.

 

I don't know, if there aren't diamonds everywhere I look, and watches with difficult to pronounce names, and lots of chocolate, I don't know how keen I am on over-paying for coffee and tea. And yet, only last weekend I spent some time in the Bronx talking with someone who could NOT stop telling me how much she and her ex loved visiting Norway. There may be no escaping it.... 😉