ABC Four Corners Monday Night 8:30pm

[MicCanberra]

9 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

Saw the 4 corners report, it was not that sensationalised, there was two people with strong opinions but over all it just presented the timeline of events as they happened. Good for getting the overall picture of the case.

Agreed, yes there were some other aspects I wish they had gone into further but as there are current investigations and commissions going on, perhaps they couldn't air these at this stage.

[christodan]

54 minutes ago, mobiandy said:

There is a silver lining to every dark cloud. Ms Temple said she won't be cruising again.

Lol ! These kinds of people make me embarrassed when I say I like cruising.

[Pushka]

56 minutes ago, mobiandy said:

There is a silver lining to every dark cloud. Ms Temple said she won't be cruising again.

Tough crowd here.
 

But I agree when she said she wouldn't go to the Doctors when she was ill did not bode well for her credibility. 
 

it did raise more questions as to who said what to whom and we were left wondering what the 'legal' timeline was for notifying the ports authority as to the number of illnesses onboard. The late night telephone calls would be interesting. Clearly some misaligned facts as well. 

[Aus Traveller]

In the 4 Corners programme, I noticed the negative factors were emphasised whereas others weren't mentioned. The only mention that passengers with flu-like symptoms were quarantined in their cabins was by the Princess spokesman. The commentator on the show did not say a word about it.

 

Previously I have read that NSW Health required that the ship provide an assessment of the health of people on board first thing on the day prior to arriving. It was supplied at 9.30 am. That was the one shown last night where the doctor on board filled in the required information - X people ill, X with temperature etc. NSW Health made their assessment of low risk on that form. Apparently on board, there were announcements asking people to go to the Medical Centre if they were ill. Many more people went, so the statistics changed. It seems that the ship didn't provide changed data to NSW Health, and the department didn't ask for the latest figures late on the 18th March.

 

The ship asked for ambulances to take two patients to hospital. One had heart problems and the other had fairly serious back issues. Both were also ill with flu-like symptoms that later tested positive for COVID. The ship asked that the paramedics wear full PPE as a precaution. There has been no mention that this middle-of-the-night request was passed on by the ambulance authorities to NSW Health, alerting them to a potential problem. Maybe they couldn't pass it on if all the NSW Health staff were at home asleep.😁

[mobiandy]

By far the most informative piece, regardless of any media reporting, is the transcript of evidence from the ship's doctor at the inquiry. It is about 100 pages long but worth the read. No hype or sensational opinions. What does stand out is that if the authorities can't organize a decent video or audio hook up what hope do we have!

https://www.rubyprincessinquiry.nsw.gov.au//assets/scirp/transcripts/Transcript-RUBY-PRINCESS-INQUIRY-20200422.pdf

[mobiandy]

35 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Tough crowd here.
 

But I agree when she said she wouldn't go to the Doctors when she was ill did not bode well for her credibility. 
 

it did raise more questions as to who said what to whom and we were left wondering what the 'legal' timeline was for notifying the ports authority as to the number of illnesses onboard. The late night telephone calls would be interesting. Clearly some misaligned facts as well. 

If it ever came to a compensation case for Ms Temple the defence barristers would have an absolute field day by her own admissions on the 4 Corners report. I wonder if, on reflection the producers may have thought it better to leave out her contributions in the pursuit of balanced reporting. As I posted earlier to read the inquiry report and remember that the statements there were given under oath.

[Pushka]

25 minutes ago, mobiandy said:

If it ever came to a compensation case for Ms Temple the defence barristers would have an absolute field day by her own admissions on the 4 Corners report. I wonder if, on reflection the producers may have thought it better to leave out her contributions in the pursuit of balanced reporting. As I posted earlier to read the inquiry report and remember that the statements there were given under oath.

Her refusal to visit the doctor and her not isolating when unwell actually makes her somewhat culpable in spreading the illness as I believe she said she continued on as usual? I didn't warm to her at all. The lady who lost her husband - clearly she isn't well herself, and is just a very sad story.  
 

Of course people go on cruises and may expect to become unwell. But to compare that with what happened here is like apples and oranges. 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Pushka

[OzKiwiJJ]

11 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I don't think I have ever had a safety briefing, unless you consider a muster drill a safety briefing?

Yes, safety briefing is the new term for a muster drill on Princess. More appropriate too as it now covers more than just how to put on a life jacket and jump overboard.

[Aus Traveller]

Using the link provided above, I read the transcript from the Commission of Inquiry. There is a lot of interesting information. I felt the doctor was at a disadvantage because she was being interview in a location where the IT people on the ship could facilitate the video link, but the medical records they kept asking her about were only accessible on the computers in the Medical Centre. Maybe she should have anticipated these questions and taken hard copies of these records with her when she went to do the interview. The poor quality of the video link made it difficult for everyone involved.

 

One point regarding the Police Commissioner's 'sneezing waiter' theory, the doctor referred to two crew members who had a high temperature at the end of the cruise. One was from Italy and one was from Thailand, both countries that could be a source of COVID. However, they had both been on the ship for months. They could not have been the original source of the infection.

[Cruisegroover]

Unfortunately a lot of people get suckered into appearing on news stories at the worst times of their lives something which I don't understand but each person is different I suppose.

 

People then loss credibility IMO when the make statements like this "As far as I'm concerned they put the mighty dollar first and they never put our safety first." which maybe true but to turn around and say "I wouldn't go to the doctor because they charge like a wounded bull"  again while this is true it's a bit hypocritical given she put her monetary bottom line first and continued her cruise and by her own admission possibly contributed to the spread of the virus. Again unfortunately if more people had gone to the medical centre the numbers prior to the NSW Health requirement of the log being submitted 24 hours prior to arrival would have been greater and thus triggering the raising of the risk level.

 

Decisions made by a wide range of people on and off the ship contributed to catastrophic chain of events leading loss of life and changed lives forever.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and certainly in the beginning of March we didn't know much about the virus as we do now. And we had our PM saying on 11 March  - 

Well, it’s very simple. You follow the health advice. I’m going to footy this weekend.

I’m looking forward to it. And I’m sure many Australians would, and I encourage you unless you’re ill, and unless there’s a reason – if you’re in self-isolation for medical reasons or you’re actually ill – that I wouldn’t suggest you go.

But the health advice is not for that to happen at this point.

 

I know they charge like wounded bulls in the medical centre as I broke my ankle on a cruise in Alaska and was treated onboard instead of onshore and it certainly cost an absolute bomb. I figured I got out of it lightly, I hate to think what the charge would have been if I was treated onshore. I had complimentary credit card insurance and all monies were refunded without question.

 

And gee I wish some of these reporters point out it is normal returning to Sydney on a closed loop voyage for passport checks not to be undertaken.  This fact was certainly covered by the special inquiry so its just lazy misreporting implying something sinister on this day.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Cruisegroover
Extra para

[OzKiwiJJ]

3 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

I have quoted only one of your posts, but you make good points in other posts as well. 🙂

 

Thank you.

 

3 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

The transplant-patient passenger who was interviewed on 4 Corners last night, kept complaining that "they" didn't tell the passengers that there was illness on board, but she didn't report her illness to the medical centre, even though passengers were asked on several occasions to go to Medical if they had various symptoms. Although she didn't know it, she did have the virus and probably infected other people.

 

I've only ever been on one cruise, the first we ever did, where illness onboard was mentioned. In that case it was norovirus.

 

However I have been on many cruises where there have been respiratory illnesses going around. It's pretty obvious.  

 

It's a sad situation but there are a few too many people in this world who blindly go through life expecting others to take responsibility for their life instead of taking responsibility themselves. Unfortunately this way of life is fostered by the "sue, sue, sue" mentality which seems to have crept into Australia from the US over the last few decades.

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by OzKiwiJJ

[OzKiwiJJ]

2 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

In the 4 Corners programme, I noticed the negative factors were emphasised whereas others weren't mentioned. 

 

 

This is the way the media operates these days - doom, gloom, sob stories and sensationalism. It's very sad to see the ABC heading along those lines too. 

 

True balanced reporting would have included someone who had positive things to say about the cruise (perhaps a seasoned cruiser), who had noticed people coughing and sneezing in public areas, who themselves had avoided getting sick because they had taken notice of the instructions in the safety briefing, washed their hands properly, and used the sanitizers, and who had noticed the announcements about reporting certain symptoms to the medical centre. 

[Aus Traveller]

3 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

This is the way the media operates these days - doom, gloom, sob stories and sensationalism. It's very sad to see the ABC heading along those lines too. 

 

True balanced reporting would have included someone who had positive things to say about the cruise (perhaps a seasoned cruiser), who had noticed people coughing and sneezing in public areas, who themselves had avoided getting sick because they had taken notice of the instructions in the safety briefing, washed their hands properly, and used the sanitizers, and who had noticed the announcements about reporting certain symptoms to the medical centre. 

Agreed. I seem to recall that Brandee who was on that cruise, reported that they received six separate written health advisories. We were on the Sea Princess from 23rd Feb to 8th March and we received several notices. We were warned to expect delays in disembarkation because the ship expected health checks by government officials: there were none.

[BRANDEE]

Breaking News on "7 News Cairns"  in QLD,  has reported of a women who was a passenger on the Ruby is a new covid case and she is being closely monitored.  Don't even know what to say about this that can be printed...

[Aus Traveller]

4 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

Breaking News on "7 News Cairns"  in QLD,  has reported of a women who was a passenger on the Ruby is a new covid case and she is being closely monitored.  Don't even know what to say about this that can be printed...

This is the news report:

QUEENSLAND Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk has revealed there has been one new case of coronavirus recorded in QLD overnight. The case is confirmed as a Cairns woman who was a passenger of the Ruby Princess and is being “monitoring closely”.

Ms Palaszczuk said authorities were still trying to work out whether her case stemmed from the cruise ship or whether she contracted it in Cairns. “At the moment we are thinking it was from the Ruby Princess,” the Premier said. The state’s total is at 1057, with 12 active cases.

 

It is truly scarey if someone could be incubating COVID for more than 9 weeks before they became ill. This would be ground-breaking information for medical researchers to understand the disease.

 

Of course, the fact that she was a passenger on the Ruby might have nothing to do with her infection.

[OzKiwiJJ]

7 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

Breaking News on "7 News Cairns"  in QLD,  has reported of a women who was a passenger on the Ruby is a new covid case and she is being closely monitored.  Don't even know what to say about this that can be printed...

Five weeks after leaving the ship? That's very strange. I guess it could be possible that she picked up the virus on the ship and it remained dormant in her for several weeks until some change in her system triggered it to replicate. Another possibilty is that somehow the virus was on something she brought home from the cruise and only just unpacked or touched, and somehow the virus remained viable all that time. Both theories are scary!

 

Of course she could have contracted the virus recently in Cairns.  

[BRANDEE]

33 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Thank you.

 

 

I've only ever been on one cruise, the first we ever did, where illness onboard was mentioned. In that case it was norovirus.

 

However I have been on many cruises where there have been respiratory illnesses going around. It's pretty obvious.  

 

It's a sad situation but there are a few too many people in this world who blindly go through life expecting others to take responsibility for their life instead of taking responsibility themselves. Unfortunately this way of life is fostered by the "sue, sue, sue" mentality which seems to have crept into Australia from the US over the last few decades.

 

 

 

I don't recall seeing one adult being dragged up the gangplank on Mar 8th.  In fact everyone was impatient to board after the delay.  So tired of people who refuse to accept the consequences of their decisions.  To say that Princess should have told them there was a chance of getting sick on the cruise ship..I would like to ask..What the hell were you doing the month before the cruise..living in a cave?   Diamond Princess was head story for weeks in February.  Let's not even mention the money being thrown to passengers the days/day of the cruise.

 

And Ms. Temple moaning that Princess should have told her there were sick people on the ship..really..let's quarantine the whole ship on day 5 because someone got the flu..Maybe I should "sue" her for getting my husband seriously sick with covid because she did not report to the doctor.

 

If covid passengers were allowed to board the ship with the knowledge of princess and/or NSW health..then we all can sue.  Otherwise , so far, according to the commissioners inquiry testimony..there was miscommunication and poor procedure regarding the handling of disembarkation regulations. And if you read the testimony of Ms. Ressler regarding the handling of the disembarkation on Mar 8th with NSW health..the outcome would have been the same.

[BRANDEE]

14 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Five weeks after leaving the ship? That's very strange. I guess it could be possible that she picked up the virus on the ship and it remained dormant in her for several weeks until some change in her system triggered it to replicate. Another possibilty is that somehow the virus was on something she brought home from the cruise and only just unpacked or touched, and somehow the virus remained viable all that time. Both theories are scary!

 

Of course she could have contracted the virus recently in Cairns.  

Nine weeks after leaving the ship..A little far fetched..

 

There are passengers from the Mar 8th cruise who live in Australia and can not get their jobs back because of paranoid people..this will definitely hurt them.

Edited May 26, 2020 by BRANDEE

[OzKiwiJJ]

41 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

Nine weeks after leaving the ship..A little far fetched..

 

 

Whoops, I left out a whole month.🤣

 

Of course nothing much changes when you're staying home as much as possible to stay safe. The days and weeks just blur into each other.

 

BTW how are you folk getting on these days? 

 

I agree that it is far fetched to link that case to the ship but there is still a lot we don't know about this virus. I'm certainly no virus expert but I have read about viruses that have lain dormant for long periods on time in laboratories and which have still been viable. Maybe this nasty virus has figured out how to do that in the human body ... and that is a seriously scary thought. Now I need to go wash my brain!!!

[Aus Traveller]

1 hour ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Five weeks after leaving the ship? That's very strange. I guess it could be possible that she picked up the virus on the ship and it remained dormant in her for several weeks until some change in her system triggered it to replicate. Another possibilty is that somehow the virus was on something she brought home from the cruise and only just unpacked or touched, and somehow the virus remained viable all that time. Both theories are scary!

 

Of course she could have contracted the virus recently in Cairns.  

The woman with COVID got off the Ruby Princess nearly 10 weeks ago. Very strange.

[BRANDEE]

3 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Whoops, I left out a whole month.🤣

 

Of course nothing much changes when you're staying home as much as possible to stay safe. The days and weeks just blur into each other.

 

BTW how are you folk getting on these days? 

 

I agree that it is far fetched to link that case to the ship but there is still a lot we don't know about this virus. I'm certainly no virus expert but I have read about viruses that have lain dormant for long periods on time in laboratories and which have still been viable. Maybe this nasty virus has figured out how to do that in the human body ... and that is a seriously scary thought. Now I need to go wash my brain!!!

 

Thank you for asking..We both tested negative two weeks ago and both have anti bodies.  Husband still has a cough, some days worse than others.  Lungs checked twice and no more signs of pneumonia, but doctors said cough could last for ???  They do not know.  I am doing okay, but stamina not the same.  Both have appointment for plasma donation.  I saw my grandkids for the first time yesterday since we left for Australia in late February.  So mentally feeling great..but still no hugs or kisses..did get to pet the granddogs and grandcat..lol    Planing our next year's vacation..hoping it is a go...three week road trip thru mid west states.  Last year we did a three week road trip around California 2500miles and survived..

 

Hoping this Ruby case is false..9 weeks is just a little too much..If true, than there is no stopping it anywhere.  Stay safe and healthy!

[MicCanberra]

I really do hope it was not incubating for 10 weeks, that would be very scary.

[Aus ATC]

I watched the 4 corners show.  I came away thinking that good "investigative journalism" could have reported a lot more about the timeline of events as has been revealed in the commission of inquiry - in particular the delayed update of the case numbers on board (ultimately after disembarkation), the failure to execute priority testing of the swabs taken off the ship, and also some questioning of the key protagonists about why the focus seemed to be on "no evidence of COVID-19" rather than "we can't rule it out therefore let's be cautions".

 

[ilikeanswers]

2 hours ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

True balanced reporting would have included someone who had positive things to say about the cruise (perhaps a seasoned cruiser), who had noticed people coughing and sneezing in public areas, who themselves had avoided getting sick because they had taken notice of the instructions in the safety briefing, washed their hands properly, and used the sanitizers, and who had noticed the announcements about reporting certain symptoms to the medical centre. 

 

They did have one positive an American travel agent. She said she would absolutely cruise again and didn't think Ruby had done anything wrong. The lady who lost her husband said the cruise was amazing however if she had any negative feelings to Princess after her husband's death they did not air it. The report really concentrated on the timeline of events rather than who was responsible maybe because investigations are still on going. Perhaps when they conclude they will do a new report detailing responsibility. 

[Sailaway John]

I saw the Four Corners show on the Ruby Princess and Diamond Princess last night, Monday 25th May. All I can say that it was one sided with all the  main storey about a woman who firstly  developed flu-like systems, refused yo go to the doctors because she said "they charge like wounded bulls" and then went on to say everything else about her cruise was bad. I could think really that that woman because she did not go to the doctors on the ship and was later found to have the virus but eventually got over it, could have caused the other people on the ship to be infected. She even hoped that they would take the Ruby Princess out into the ocean and sink it. I would really like to know how many cruises she has taken to be an expert on these matters. She said she would never cruise again . . . good riddance, we do not want her in our cruising family.