ABC Four Corners Monday Night 8:30pm

[christodan]

It is true though, and the onboard doctor freely admitted she forgot. I would have thought she would be a bit more cagey of she was trying to hide something?

Edited May 24, 2020 by christodan

[Cruisegroover]

12 minutes ago, possum52 said:

Yes you are correct. Watching ABC News this morning, they spoke to the reporter who does the story on Four Corners this evening and she stated they dug into Princess and in turn Carnival. 

 

Leigh

Yes I saw that report I also heard one of the hosts saying port authorities are not taking anymore bookings for cruise ships at the moment. Seasoned cruisers know port bookings are made years in advance and bookings for 2021 etc have already been made.  And we know NSW Ports Authority have removed the Sydney cruise schedule from their website. Just misreporting. 

[Pushka]

11 minutes ago, christodan said:

It is true though, and the onboard doctor freely admitted she forgot. I would have thought she would be a bit more cagey of she was trying to hide something?

Possibly but some things can’t be hidden without making it worse. And that forgetful moment probably changed how this thing unraveled. 
 

But - I just can’t see how that fact could have been forgotten in the midst of that context. 

[mr walker]

1 hour ago, Pushka said:

There is also the telephone conversation where the Princess official said the ambulances were not required for suspect  Covid patients yet those two patients were two of the very few who had been tested for it. And one sadly later died. Many discrepancies in the stories here. 

 

At that point the ship had no means to test for Covid19. The Carnival 'Port Manager' admitted in the enquiry that the only reason he had told port authorities there was no Covid onboard was that he knew that they had no way to test for it. One of the first matters upon arrival was to collect the swabs the ship had taken to be tested onshore.

 

The ambulances were arranged for other health matters, but the Carnival Port Agent did warn the Ambulance of respiratory concerns with the two patients &, as I understand it, the paramedics were using PPE.

 

And yes, one of the 2 patients did subsequently pass.

 

[By The Bay]

Prior to the 4 Corners programme tonight is Australian Story. Their story tonight is of the Dustyesky male choir and promises a good laugh, going by the news article and promo on ABC this morning.

[mr walker]

1 hour ago, Pushka said:

If that media report of  that evidence is true that she simply forgot to update the numbers of people with a respiratory illness at a time when a pandemic had been declared for a respiratory illness and Australia was closing its ports and Princess had shut down operations? A couple of red flags?  

 

1 hour ago, christodan said:

It is true though, and the onboard doctor freely admitted she forgot. I would have thought she would be a bit more cagey of she was trying to hide something?

Following along from home, it looks a little more complicated than that, although there was testimony that she did forget to update, where in her email update with Health she said that things have been hectic (or similar word).

The ship was required to provide NSW Health a listing of presentations for respiratory symptoms to the medical centre during the voyage on the 18th, broken up into various categories like acute & mild, with or without fever etc. This was the basis of Health's classification of risk and subsequent actions, based not on Covid19 of course, but on other viruses. 

The figure supplied for the category the assessment was based on was recorded as 36. If this had been 38 it would have exceeded the low risk category criteria, and would have changed Health's actions as per their protocol. Of course by the time the ship berthed, there were many more than 36, but the decision had been made & so low risk it was.

I will leave it to the Commission to determine the findings, but there are no winners.

 

I won't be watching 4 corners. The sooner the ABC becomes user-pays the better. Those who want to watch can pay, those that don't won't. We all pay now, well at least those that work & pay taxes 🙂 I am old enough to remember (as a child) when you had to buy a TV license to watch TV, apparently to fund the ABC, so it would be like back to the future.

[Pushka]

2 hours ago, mr walker said:

 

At that point the ship had no means to test for Covid19. The Carnival 'Port Manager' admitted in the enquiry that the only reason he had told port authorities there was no Covid onboard was that he knew that they had no way to test for it. One of the first matters upon arrival was to collect the swabs the ship had taken to be tested onshore.

 

The ambulances were arranged for other health matters, but the Carnival Port Agent did warn the Ambulance of respiratory concerns with the two patients &, as I understand it, the paramedics were using PPE.

 

And yes, one of the 2 patients did subsequently pass.

 

 No they didn’t have the facilities to test. That wasn’t their job. They were meant to report respiratory illness onboard. And forgot to update with correct numbers and which would have raised the flag with NSW Health

 

I note it was commented that it was chaotic. Why? What had happened to make it so? and what was different on that cruise to every other cruise Princess has completed?
 

I understand that the reason for the ambulance call out was for respiratory issues as the crew were warned both had been tested for Covid. So why test them if not for respiratory issues? Then someone from Princess later said that wasn’t the case. 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Pushka

[MicCanberra]

1 hour ago, mr walker said:

I won't be watching 4 corners. The sooner the ABC becomes user-pays the better. Those who want to watch can pay, those that don't won't. We all pay now, well at least those that work & pay taxes 🙂 I am old enough to remember (as a child) when you had to buy a TV license to watch TV, apparently to fund the ABC, so it would be like back to the future.

It is user pays, I use it and I pay.

[Docker123]

I am mighty thankful we have a national broadcaster.

 

i have lived in rural and remote areas where it provides a news life line.

 

More simply, I remember a few short months ago when the country was on fire. The ABC because of its reach, multiple platforms, and no commercial imperative, provided ongoing coverage, information, explanation.

 

That is why WE pay for it.

[ilikeanswers]

I think it is important to have a broadcaster not beholdened to commercial interests otherwise you would not get programs like Revelation or the sadly cancelled The Checkout. There are programs or stories that commercial channels would never touch, so how else could we get them told? Sometimes they do things we wish they did not do but no industry will ever get everything right🤗. 

[mr walker]

1 hour ago, Pushka said:

I note it was commented that it was chaotic. Why? What had happened to make it so? and what was different on that cruise to every other cruise Princess has completed?

 

I understand that the reason for the ambulance call out was for respiratory issues as the crew were warned both had been tested for Covid. So why test them if not for respiratory issues? Then someone from Princess later said that wasn’t the case. 

 

Yes, you are correct, the word the doctor used was chaotic - thanks for clarifying that. I think from the hearings it had become 'chaotic' based on the surge in respiratory illness presentations 'after' the report was supplied to NSW Health. 36 had somehow become something like 170 & the NSW Health lady said that the restaurant where the boarding party were to check those that had come forward was crowded with people.

The evidence given by the ship doctor & the Carnival port agent was that the ambulance transfer was arranged for non-Covid related issues, from memory a heart condition and a leg injury, but they were suffering from respiratory conditions also. 

[The_Big_M]

Good reasons to have government owned media, for the good of the people.

 

Relying on solely commercial media means that they only do something if there's a commercial benefit. Lots of reasons that's not good for the public.

 

 

[MicCanberra]

I thought that they had come in to port earlier due to the heart condition patient.

[mr walker]

1 hour ago, MicCanberra said:

It is user pays, I use it and I pay.

Yes, it works for you then mate.

 

I actually cannot recall the last time I watched ABC-TV. Maybe an Australian story episode that caught my attention.

 

 

[Pushka]

4 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

I thought that they had come in to port earlier due to the heart condition patient.

 

The issue is that this infection does create issues with heart as the lungs try to increase oxygen. 

[mr walker]

6 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

I thought that they had come in to port earlier due to the heart condition patient.

That was what was stated - 1 with heart complaint & 1 with damaged femoral artery??

Seems that the respiratory aspect came later.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by mr walker

[MicCanberra]

3 minutes ago, mr walker said:

Yes, it works for you then mate.

I actually cannot recall the last time I watched ABC-TV. Maybe an Australian story episode that caught my attention.

I am in the group that believes our taxes should go towards many public services,utilities (like gas, water, power and phone), public transport, a bank, schools, superannuation fund, and yes this includes a TV station that should be impartial (not getting into whether it is or not).

Unfortunately governments of both sides have progressively sold off many of these services. My view was that while some of these things were in operation it kept the competition regulated and that meant they couldn't raise prices too much or they wouldn't get any customers.

[christodan]

2 hours ago, Pushka said:

I understand that the reason for the ambulance call out was for respiratory issues as the crew were warned both had been tested for Covid. So why test them if not for respiratory issues?

No Dr Chant at a press conference said the ambulances were called for other health issues.

[Pushka]

8 minutes ago, christodan said:

No Dr Chant at a press conference said the ambulances were called for other health issues.

 

Seems like that is a point of difference:

 

• At 7pm, a Carnival Australia port agent, Dobrila Tokovic, called NSW Ambulance to book ambulance transfers for two sick passengers to take them to the Royal Prince Alfred hospital at 3am the next morning.

• The ambulance operator was told that both passengers had “febrile acute respiratory disease, they had both tested negative to flu, they had been swabbed for Covid-19” and that protective equipment should be worn by paramedics.

[christodan]

From the article again:

"On the way back, the ship's senior physician, Dr Ilse Von Watzdorf, wrote in an email to NSW Health: "It seems we are in the early stages of an influenza A outbreak."

But the message being delivered to concerned passengers was very different.

"They just kept reassuring you all the time, 'this ship is virus-free'." Ms Temple said."

 

This Ms Temple comes across as your typical ACA participant: uniformed, clueless and misunderstands everything.  Those statements do not contradict each other." 

 

 

I'd like to hear Brandee's opinion.

[christodan]

1 minute ago, Pushka said:

The ambulance operator was told that both passengers had “febrile acute respiratory disease, they had both tested negative to flu, they had been swabbed for Covid-19” and that protective equipment should be worn by paramedics.

Yes but I remember Dr Chant saying that - maybe to calm everyone down? Going into damage control?

[mr walker]

47 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

I am in the group that believes our taxes should go towards many public services,utilities (like gas, water, power and phone), public transport, a bank, schools, superannuation fund, and yes this includes a TV station that should be impartial (not getting into whether it is or not).

Unfortunately governments of both sides have progressively sold off many of these services. My view was that while some of these things were in operation it kept the competition regulated and that meant they couldn't raise prices too much or they wouldn't get any customers.

 

At various times over the years I have been involved in discussions about what services are best provided by the government & what are best provided by others. Mostly there is a degree of disagreement.

 

 

[Vader1111]

15 hours ago, pully8 said:

We like the ABC but not all the shows. Sometimes with Q and A and 4 corners there is an agenda pushed in the background, however sometimes the investigative/expose stuff is good.

Particularly around the state of the aged care industry. 

Will watch but if it gets tiresome will go to something else.

Think they might be critical about the way the state authorities handled it and the communication from the cruise line, but time will tell.

Sadly it was not the only cruise ship with infections and deaths but it is getting a lot of media attention. Huge costs in lives and money to resolve.

 

It wasn't the only one, but it did have (2-3x) more infections and deaths than all of the others combined.  Compared to the Ruby Princess, the other infected ships are complete non-stories.

[ilikeanswers]

2 hours ago, mr walker said:

That was what was stated - 1 with heart complaint & 1 with damaged femoral artery??

Seems that the respiratory aspect came later.

 

I saw the interview with the man taken by ambulance and he said he started of complaining of flu like symptoms but nearing Sydney he felt so ill he was incapacitated and that was why they got him an ambulance. He didn't mention complaining of any heart issues unless the doctor thought some of his symptoms sound heart related. Though now that it is looking like COVID19 is more vascular than respiratory perhaps it did do a number on his heart. 

[OzKiwiJJ]

1 hour ago, christodan said:

From the article again:

"On the way back, the ship's senior physician, Dr Ilse Von Watzdorf, wrote in an email to NSW Health: "It seems we are in the early stages of an influenza A outbreak."

But the message being delivered to concerned passengers was very different.

"They just kept reassuring you all the time, 'this ship is virus-free'." Ms Temple said."

 

This Ms Temple comes across as your typical ACA participant: uniformed, clueless and misunderstands everything.  Those statements do not contradict each other." 

 

 

 

Then there was her statement "As far as I'm concerned they put the mighty dollar first and they never put our safety first."

 

I wonder what Ms Temple's reaction would have been in Princess had announced that there was a suspicion, just a suspicion, that there was Covid-19 on the ship and that everyone should stay in their cabins? Methinks she would be screaming about her holiday being ruined because the cruise line wouldn't let her have any fun. 🙄 Or would she have been screaming that she wanted off the ship NOW (even if it was in the middle of the Tasman). 🙄

 

Then Ms Temple and her mother fell ill. Nothing serious, they thought, just a dry cough and upset stomach. "I wouldn't go to the doctor because they charge like a wounded bull". Hello! You have serious health issues and you don't get checked out by a doctor when you feel ill? She could claim it on her travel insurance or did she cruise without travel insurance? Why weren't these questions asked and addressed in the interview.

 

So did Ms Temple and her mother stay in their cabin once they started to feel ill? I suspect they didn't, and if they didn't they contributed to the spread of the virus on the ship. Again, why wasn't this discussed in the interview?

 

I've very disappointed by the apparent bias of the ABC on this issue, they appear to be following in the footsteps of all the other sensationalist media hacks. I won't be watching the programme because I'll probably get too angry and besides MasterChef is still on then and that's much more fun to watch.