Protocols for Opening Up Cruising - Physicians' Perspective

[harkinmr]

Really interesting Miami Herald article with physician recommendations on what protocols need to be in place in order for cruise ships to SAFELY sail.  

There's also an interesting quote from a CDC spokesperson below.  Sounds to me like cruising is a long-ways off.   The article is an educational one and provides a realistic picture as to where we are as of today.

 

A spokesperson for the CDC said the agency has not consulted with any cruise lines yet about resuming operations.

“We don’t have enough information at this time to say when it will be safe for passenger travel to resume,” said spokesperson Scott Pauley in an email Wednesday. “Our current focus is helping crew members safely return home to their families and ensuring cruise lines are providing a safe environment for crew members to work and to disembark. We will continue to evaluate and update our recommendations as the situation evolves.”

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article242945396.html#storylink=cpy

[mnocket]

10 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Sounds to me like cruising is a long-ways off.   
Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article242945396.html#storylink=cpy

 

It may be.  Government regulators don't move quickly.  Boeing's 737-Max re-certification is in it's 2nd year and still not cleared to fly.  It's not unthinkable that risk-adverse CDC regulators could keep cruise ships "grounded" far longer than many anticipate.  No way of knowing at this point.

[pms4104]

Sorry ... can't get past paywall

[Coral]

Financial goals for medical staff? I guess I have never heard of this. How tacky.

 

No more financial goals for medical staff: A cruise ship doctor who spoke with the Herald on the condition of anonymity for fear of retaliation said his company has financial goals for medical staff during each cruise. If the staff meets the goal for several weeks, they get a bonus. He calls the reward system “unethical.’’

------------------------------

 

Considering several Carnival Corp brands have furloughed employees through November, I see the earliest ships will return (in quantity) is December.

[USCcruisecrazy]

On May 19, USA Today published a very nice article on what it would take to get ships sailing again.  From the sounds of the Norwegian leadership, it may be sooner than many think.  They plan 5 ships coming on board (no pun intended) at a time as a trial basis.  It should be an interesting story to follow.  Especially since Carnival said on 4 May they will have ships sailing 1 Aug, a week after the no-sail ban is lifted.

[voljeep]

33 minutes ago, Coral said:

Considering several Carnival Corp brands have furloughed employees through November,

musta missed that … is that in stone ?  … is Princess one of those brands ?   any link appreciated ...

[Coral]

10 minutes ago, voljeep said:

musta missed that … is that in stone ?  … is Princess one of those brands ?   any link appreciated ...

I should have said "some employees". Source - friends and friends of friends. Part of the large layoffs and furloughs mentioned recently. 

Edited June 1, 2020 by Coral

[WNcruiser]

I have had high hopes for our October Caribbean cruise until reading this 🙁. They make it seem so far away from starting again and making the new atmosphere on board not anything desirable. Wearing masks, being no more than 1 day from a port, no more multiple sea days, closing pools. 
 

Let’s hope it’s really not that bad...I really want to get back on a ship! 

[npcl]

1 hour ago, pms4104 said:

Sorry ... can't get past paywall

Try opening with an incognito window.  Works for me most of the time.

[Pierlesscruisers]

1 hour ago, voljeep said:

musta missed that … is that in stone ?  … is Princess one of those brands ?   any link appreciated ...

 

I have known a young lady for almost 25 years now who was the daughter of a neighbor of ours know a lady who does work for for Princess and has been working for them for a number of years now both on ships and on land and, yes, she was furloughed within the past 3+/- weeks until right around the end of the calendar year. I don't know how many have been furloughed or when they are all due to return or any specifics only that she has been.

 

Tom

 

[npcl]

2 hours ago, Coral said:

Financial goals for medical staff? I guess I have never heard of this. How tacky.

 

No more financial goals for medical staff: A cruise ship doctor who spoke with the Herald on the condition of anonymity for fear of retaliation said his company has financial goals for medical staff during each cruise. If the staff meets the goal for several weeks, they get a bonus. He calls the reward system “unethical.’’

------------------------------

 

Considering several Carnival Corp brands have furloughed employees through November, I see the earliest ships will return (in quantity) is December.

Unfortunately the article does not mention which company (s) has that practice. i have used medical on both Princess and HAL.  Found the costs to be similar with urgent care facilities in the US.  Have not encountered any signs of either company trying to load on services.

[npcl]

1 hour ago, WNcruiser said:

I have had high hopes for our October Caribbean cruise until reading this 🙁. They make it seem so far away from starting again and making the new atmosphere on board not anything desirable. Wearing masks, being no more than 1 day from a port, no more multiple sea days, closing pools. 
 

Let’s hope it’s really not that bad...I really want to get back on a ship! 

OF course the article is about what Doctors think the cruise lines should do, not what the cruise lines will do.

[dog]

Sounds like a blast!

 

i won’t be using my FCC after all if cruising turns into this 

[Coral]

3 minutes ago, npcl said:

Unfortunately the article does not mention which company (s) has that practice. i have used medical on both Princess and HAL.  Found the costs to be similar with urgent care facilities in the US.  Have not encountered any signs of either company trying to load on services.

I only have one cruise where 2 of us went to the medical center. I thought the guy saved us money (and was caring and concerned) as one of us had bronchitis and he asked us to come back to the medical center daily to listen to lungs with out charging us. The initial charges were reasonable.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Coral

[MISTER 67]

One doctor and a nurse is joke for the huge ships. Think of a small town with a  population of 6,000, who thinks that a town that size would only have 1 doctor. 

Sebring Florida where we live has 10,000 inhabitants and we have more than our share of doctors and nurses plus 2 medium size hospitals. 

 

[Coral]

12 minutes ago, MISTER 67 said:

One doctor and a nurse is joke for the huge ships. Think of a small town with a  population of 6,000, who thinks that a town that size would only have 1 doctor. 

Sebring Florida where we live has 10,000 inhabitants and we have more than our share of doctors and nurses plus 2 medium size hospitals. 

 

There were 2 doctors and not sure how many nurses (more than 1, saw 2) on the Sapphire Princess. One doctor may have been for crew.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Coral

[pms4104]

4 hours ago, npcl said:

Try opening with an incognito window.  Works for me most of the time.

Thanx so much!   it worker!

[CruzRamirez]

Some questions  this news article raises for me:

 

COVID 19 RT-PCR and antibody tests have been developed by different companies. Right now in general, the diagnostic accuracy of some  are not good. The poor ones should be weeded out. The better assays giving the least false-negative results  need to be identified and scaled up for use. Can they be sufficiently be scaled up to be distributed for ships’ use, in time for resuming cruising  once other aspects of ensuring safe-cruising like evacuation agreements w/ports are put into place?

 

Hypothetically, let’s say a passenger (or crew member) develops symptoms during the cruise. Let’s say a rapid COVID 19 PCR test can be administered onboard right away. It comes back negative. Does the captain and medical staff believe the result and let the individual stay on the ship? How about if they test again and a 3rd time  and still negative? What if the individual does not want to stay in the ship’s medical infirmary, stating that she/he tested negative?

 

Along the lines of medical evacuation agreements, I think cruise lines will need COVID-specific dis-embarkation agreements with ports of call. How and when to test  for the people to be allowed off the ship  to enjoy the ports of call.  If twenty passengers test positive for COVID 19 via rapid-test  on the day the ship reaches a port of call before the final dis-embarkation port: Do those 20 people leave the ship at that port of call, to be driven home? Will they do contact tracing on those people before they leave the ship? In what time frame  is the captain’s obligation to notify the other passengers of the details of the situation? And how detailed?  Do the twenty stay on the ship in some locked-down fashion, until the ship reaches final? How would you feel about that as a noninfected passenger on the ship?

 

What if a port reneges on a previously-made agreement to be able to dis-embark 1) COVID-19 negative-tested passengers (for shore activities etc) and/or  2) COVID-19 positive-testing passengers? Should backup plans be put in place to anticipate such a possibility? How does a cruise line respond to that then  and in the future?

[caribill]

11 hours ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

 Especially since Carnival said on 4 May they will have ships sailing 1 Aug, a week after the no-sail ban is lifted.

 

Carnival has indicated that the 4 May announcement was basically an announcement of what cruises were being cancelled.

 

The ones listed for the week of 1 Aug was not an indication they would really sail as planned, just that they had not been cancelled yet. So they may go or they may not go. Too soon to know.

[harkinmr]

14 hours ago, npcl said:

OF course the article is about what Doctors think the cruise lines should do, not what the cruise lines will do.

Doctors will be very involved in the plans that are put in place, both those that work for the CDC and those that are being consulted by the cruise lines as part of their plan preparation.  Line CEOs (like Arnold Donald) have said that they are using "experts" in the health field as part of their working groups on plans.  It only makes sense.

[Potstech]

15 hours ago, MISTER 67 said:

One doctor and a nurse is joke for the huge ships. Think of a small town with a  population of 6,000, who thinks that a town that size would only have 1 doctor. 

Sebring Florida where we live has 10,000 inhabitants and we have more than our share of doctors and nurses plus 2 medium size hospitals. 

 

There are areas in this country that do not have any doctors or nurses for way more than 6000 residents. 

[HappyInVan]

21 hours ago, harkinmr said:

Really interesting Miami Herald article with physician recommendations on what protocols need to be in place in order for cruise ships to SAFELY sail.  

 

Thanks. Good read.

 

Miami Herald has done good research here...

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241914096.html

 

A quarter of the global cruise fleet had infected persons on board. The worst of the big three was RCCL with 44% of their fleet. Carnival and RCCL send their ships out again after infected were detected. The MSC Bellissima had three sailings with infected aboard. Sad?

 

There's something wrong here.

 

https://www.americanseafoods.com/covid-19

 

The company American Seafoods found that one of its work ships (American Dynasty) had 86 infected aboard. Even after …

 

“According to Durham, 100% of crew members were screened and tested for COVID-19 antibodies and viral infection before they boarded the vessel. Pre-season tests were conducted through the University of Washington. Only those who tested negative for the virus were cleared to board the vessel...”

 

https://www.americanseafoods.com/media/1688/release-5312020-american-seafoods-reports-additional-positive-covid-19-tests-from-crew-members-on-the-american-dynasty.pdf

 

 

 

[npcl]

6 hours ago, harkinmr said:

Doctors will be very involved in the plans that are put in place, both those that work for the CDC and those that are being consulted by the cruise lines as part of their plan preparation.  Line CEOs (like Arnold Donald) have said that they are using "experts" in the health field as part of their working groups on plans.  It only makes sense.

However the cruise lines will take a line somewhere between what the doctors recommend and what they actually want to do.  The line being what regulators force them to do.

[harkinmr]

36 minutes ago, npcl said:

However the cruise lines will take a line somewhere between what the doctors recommend and what they actually want to do.  The line being what regulators force them to do.

How do you know what they will or will not want to implement or that they will definitively take a "middle" line?  That's just your supposition.  If the CDC is calling the shots on reopening, as they are, they will call the shots on what needs to be done to actually open.  Cruise lines will need to go along to get out to sea. Seems pretty simple to me.

Edited June 2, 2020 by harkinmr

[npcl]

3 hours ago, harkinmr said:

How do you know what they will or will not want to implement or that they will definitively take a "middle" line?  That's just your supposition.  If the CDC is calling the shots on reopening, as they are, they will call the shots on what needs to be done to actually open.  Cruise lines will need to go along to get out to sea. Seems pretty simple to me.

as I said

 

The line being what regulators force them to do.

 

CDC is a regulatory authority, but not the only one.