First Signs of fleet disposal?

[D C]

3 hours ago, dabear said:

 

The first ship listed for sale appears to be the Connie, which  is m class, has the same dimensions, gross weight and was built in 2002. 

Sure looks like it.  Mix of photos from before and after the solsticization, with and without the Deck 11 AQ rooms.  

Any way to tell when it was listed for sale?   

 

EDIT: Back out to the cruise ship listings and it shows up as listed 14 days ago. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by D C

[jelayne]

3 hours ago, beaveh said:

We can always club together and get our own celebrity ship

Only 300 million

https://commercial.apolloduck.com/boat/commercial-vessels-cruise-ship/563969

That listing or a almost identical one has been reported on CC a couple of times in the past few years, so I don’t read anything into this other than there is and has been a MClass ship available for purchase for quite awhile.

[D C]

The Infinity is also listed: https://commercial.apolloduck.com/boat/commercial-vessels-cruise-ship/563989

Also listed 14 days ago.

 

The Millenium is a bargain at only $280 million

https://commercial.apolloduck.com/boat/commercial-vessels-cruise-ship/564010

 

Majesty of the Seas is also on the list as of 18 days ago:

https://commercial.apolloduck.com/boat/commercial-vessels-cruise-ship/563925

 

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by D C

[wwcruisers]

Just a note on the not-so-immediate future of the M-Class ships. We were just notified by our music charter company that our Smooth Jazz Cruise, booked for Jan '21 (on Infinity), has just been moved back a year -- along with other charters, by the same company. The only caveat is that we might have a different M-Class ship, for those cruises. So, it appears that the Millie Class is safe, for another couple of years, at least.

[beaveh]

I think I first saw them for sale last year.

What happens if someone buys one of them? Is the boat still chartered to X for the upcoming cruises or will every one book on a cruise  get a refund / alternative cruise? asking for a friend.

Edited June 13, 2020 by beaveh

[TeeRick]

7 hours ago, wwcruisers said:

Just a note on the not-so-immediate future of the M-Class ships. We were just notified by our music charter company that our Smooth Jazz Cruise, booked for Jan '21 (on Infinity), has just been moved back a year -- along with other charters, by the same company. The only caveat is that we might have a different M-Class ship, for those cruises. So, it appears that the Millie Class is safe, for another couple of years, at least.

Unless somebody buys one of them "for a song".😃

[Charles4515]

That listing or a almost identical one has been reported on CC a couple of times in the past few years, so I don’t read anything into this other than there is and has been a MClass ship available for purchase for quite awhile.

Those listings are speculative by the “broker”. Not listed by the cruise line. Take them with a large grain of salt.


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[CarolRoy]

17 hours ago, dabear said:

 

The first ship listed for sale appears to be the Connie, which  is m class, has the same dimensions, gross weight and was built in 2002. 

We were scheduled to be on the Connie 10/12/20 but lifted & switched the cruise to 10/4/21 (same cruise itinerary Greece).   So if they sell Connie, what will they possibly do with our 10/4/21 cruise?

[D C]

3 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

Those listings are speculative by the “broker”. Not listed by the cruise line. Take them with a large grain of salt.


 

 

Curious to know more about this process and who the brokers are

[phoenix_dream]

44 minutes ago, CarolRoy said:

We were scheduled to be on the Connie 10/12/20 but lifted & switched the cruise to 10/4/21 (same cruise itinerary Greece).   So if they sell Connie, what will they possibly do with our 10/4/21 cruise?

Unfortunately there is no one on these boards who can give you a definitive answer on this.  At best any guess would be very speculative.  We had a wonderful B2B Sky Suite on Connie in January, for a great price as we usually can't afford the suite life.  Was worried about whether it would sail due to Covid-19.   Now I guess I can also worry that it will be sold before I can sail it .

[Charles4515]

Curious to know more about this process and who the brokers are

 

I think anyone could make an offer on any ship in the fleet at any time. They don’t need to be listed anywhere. I doubt that the process is that multi million dollar ships are listed for sale online. The brokers are bogus. They have been listing ships for years. Ships that are still in the original fleets. If past history is an indication RCCL if Constellation leaves the fleet she will move to another affiliated brand.

 

If course there is the possibility that the RCCL will go bankrupt......

 

 

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[hcat]

1 hour ago, phoenix_dream said:

Unfortunately there is no one on these boards who can give you a definitive answer on this.  At best any guess would be very speculative.  We had a wonderful B2B Sky Suite on Connie in January, for a great price as we usually can't afford the suite life.  Was worried about whether it would sail due to Covid-19.   Now I guess I can also worry that it will be sold before I can sail it .

Yup.. that's us too, plus need tp use up our fcc!

Going to browse for a back up plan

[Cruising89143]

3 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

I think anyone could make an offer on any ship in the fleet at any time. They don’t need to be listed anywhere. I doubt that the process is that multi million dollar ships are listed for sale online. The brokers are bogus. They have been listing ships for years. Ships that are still in the original fleets. If past history is an indication RCCL if Constellation leaves the fleet she will move to another affiliated brand.

 

If course there is the possibility that the RCCL will go bankrupt......

 

 

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This. On point......

[FlorenceItaly]

19 hours ago, wwcruisers said:

Just a note on the not-so-immediate future of the M-Class ships. We were just notified by our music charter company that our Smooth Jazz Cruise, booked for Jan '21 (on Infinity), has just been moved back a year -- along with other charters, by the same company. The only caveat is that we might have a different M-Class ship, for those cruises. So, it appears that the Millie Class is safe, for another couple of years, at least.

They will be using the Summit for the Jazz Cruises.

[Redtravel]

Been on several ships that Celebrity sold.  Horizon, Zenith, Galaxy, Meridian,and Mercury.  All were good. Gone, but not forgotten. They are still sailing under a different line. Celebrity has introduced newer ships that replaced them.  Times change and so do how we sail. For now, not sailing. When times are safe again, there will be cruise ships sailing. Demand will dictate how many ships survive the pandemic cruising hiatus. 

[Charles4515]

Been on several ships that Celebrity sold.  Horizon, Zenith, Galaxy, Meridian,and Mercury.  All were good. Gone, but not forgotten. They are still sailing under a different line. Celebrity has introduced newer ships that replaced them.  Times change and so do how we sail. For now, not sailing. When times are safe again, there will be cruise ships sailing. Demand will dictate how many ships survive the pandemic cruising hiatus. 

 

Horizon, Zenith, Galaxy and Mercury were transferred from Celebrity to Royal Caribbean subsidies. Transferring their oldest ships to subsidies/ joint ventures is what they have been doing when they remove ships out of the Celebrity fleet.

 

I was booked on Zenith when it was transferred to Pullmantur. My booking was transferred to a completely different ship that was transferred from Pullmantur to Celebrity.

 

 

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[Redtravel]

Cruise lines biggest assets are the ships.  The debt on them is enormous.  When times are bad, like now during the pandemic, staying afloat can be an overwhelming problem.  Up until recently,  newer ships replaced older ones without too much fuss.  Move them to other RCL properties or sell them kept the needed funding going for the new ships being built. There was a steady stream of incoming funds being paid for by people buying more cruises.  It seemed like it would never stop.  For many years,  RCL etc. was making money at very fast pace. Times were good....and we sailed. Baby boomers had reached retirement and cruised.  They never anticipated that a pandemic would freeze cruising.  After that dreadful March 13th, everything changed.  Sailing stopped and it’s a guess when or even if ships will sail again.  Many people are getting refunds and not booking. Some take fcc.  The previous steady flow of increasing funds has stopped. Instead, cruise lines are busy trying to book travel and meet their increasing debts. Their anticipated bookings are down. What to do? Sell!   Sell off ships will happen. Is there a buyer?  If not,  we may watch the cruise industry dwindle. As Dr. Fauci said the virus will dictate the timetable. Wait and see.  I certainly hope that as states reopen, people remain safe.  When all is well, cruising may surge again. 

[LXA350]

It wil take time for demand to recover and since both RCL and X have ships on order that they can maximum delay but not cancel, the easiest will be on the short run to get rid of older ships that are also more expensive to operate and by getting deliveries of the new ships over the next years they will automatically add capacity as demand  will come back. Once their situation will improve they will rather invest by ordering even more ships with the hope by the time they will arrive in let's say 8-10 years from now we will not endup in something simmilar as now.

[Redtravel]

Until a vaccine is widely available,  I wonder if it would be wise to contract for new ships.  Given previous disasters and recessions, demand for luxury goods has declined.  Several cruise lines have gone bankrupt. RCL Azamara’s ships were built by Renaissance Cruises. They went out of business and their ships were sold off. It will happen again. I have sailed on cruise lines that folded...Home Lines, Majesty Cruises.  Their ships were sold off.  Trying to predict the future of cruising is tough. We have never experienced a global pandemic that closed down cruising for an extended time.  When this pandemic is over, it may take a long time to convince people to fly and cruise.  It will never be the same as it was before March.  
 

[BigAl94]

Viewing this list http://www.cybercruises.com/orderbook.htm in the mouth of probably the worst recession ever, the bulk of these ships will surely not be built in the next 2/3 years even if it means cruise lines filing for bankruptcy to avoid contract commitments?

[C-Dragons]

40 minutes ago, BigAl94 said:

Viewing this list http://www.cybercruises.com/orderbook.htm in the mouth of probably the worst recession ever, the bulk of these ships will surely not be built in the next 2/3 years even if it means cruise lines filing for bankruptcy to avoid contract commitments?

X has already secured financing for Beyond. The shipyard in St. Nazareth is set to open again in the next few weeks. Beyond's delivery will be delayed but she will be built.

[wwcruisers]

14 hours ago, FlorenceItaly said:

They will be using the Summit for the Jazz Cruises.

 

Hi Florence -- that's definitely what it says on the Smooth Jazz Cruise website. But, the person at the cruise charter company who helped us with our Jan '22 booking said that the exact ship has not been determined yet. Their company's agreement with X specifies an M-Class ship that has been 'revolutionized' (or whatever X is calling the fleet-wide retrofit). To the best of my knowledge, the only two M-Class ships that have completed that process, so far, are Summit and Millie.

 

Doesn't really matter to me, though, I love all of the M-Class ships (have sailed all of them, except for Connie). Their design is simply ideal for a jazz charter -- a true range of small and large music venues -- all with great acoustics! 😎

[FlorenceItaly]

32 minutes ago, wwcruisers said:

 

Hi Florence -- that's definitely what it says on the Smooth Jazz Cruise website. But, the person at the cruise charter company who helped us with our Jan '22 booking said that the exact ship has not been determined yet. Their company's agreement with X specifies an M-Class ship that has been 'revolutionized' (or whatever X is calling the fleet-wide retrofit). To the best of my knowledge, the only two M-Class ships that have completed that process, so far, are Summit and Millie.

 

Doesn't really matter to me, though, I love all of the M-Class ships (have sailed all of them, except for Connie). Their design is simply ideal for a jazz charter -- a true range of small and large music venues -- all with great acoustics! 😎

Thank you for this additional information.  I was convinced they were moving the Summit but, I will have to take a look at the Millie and re-evaluate.  I am glad the Charter Co. was smart enough to build the revolutionized ship into the contract.  You all pay premium prices and imo the last time I was on the Infinity the stateroom soft goods and furnishings were shabby.

[K12Guy]

On 6/12/2020 at 12:32 PM, hcat said:

Celebrity will keep its plans secret for as long as it can with little or no regard for cruisers who need to make plans!

 

Honestly, from an executive management perspective, I don't see it as keeping anything secret, as such. Please keep in mind that cruise lines are controlled by their boards and those boards only act according to what is happening politically and financially around the world.

 

Especially today, with the uncertainty of pretty much everything, it's best NOT to share 'plans' that can change in a New York minute. That would REALLY piss off the potential passengers and cause an upheaval with regard to cancellations, etc.

 

Once significant information is released by CDC and CLIA then cruise lines can make and release plans. In the mean time they can only operate on "what if" and try to forecast the future.

[Quo Vadis?]

4 hours ago, Redtravel said:

Several cruise lines have gone bankrupt. RCL Azamara’s ships were built by Renaissance Cruises. They went out of business and their ships were sold off. It will happen again. I have sailed on cruise lines that folded...Home Lines, Majesty Cruises.  Their ships were sold off.  Trying to predict the future of cruising is tough. We have never experienced a global pandemic that closed down cruising for an extended time.  When this pandemic is over, it may take a long time to convince people to fly and cruise.  It will never be the same as it was before March.  
 

Here is one on the market:

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23088-rcgs-resolute-expedition-cruise-ship-to-be-sold-at-auction.html