Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[K.T.B.]

This Sunday night on MSNBC, there's a show that might interest people.  It's called On Assignment with Richard Engel.  It's titled "The Race for the Vaccine".  It starts at 10:00 PM EST/9:00 PM CST.

[TeeRick]

19 hours ago, hcat said:

Reading a bit more about side effects...if they are unpleasant, will folks go back for Part 2..and if they don't,  will they be partially safe?

 

Had a terrible reaction 1 yr to the flu shot but have done okay all other yrs..Hope side effects won't be too severe

hcat,

Most if not all vaccines have some side effects.  Many are around the injection site.  I recently had Shingrix and my arm was sore for three days.  Same for my influenza vaccine this year.    Not a show stopper for most people. But for some - yes.  There have been reports from subjects in some of the COVID vaccine clinical studies that they experienced side effects that could be described as more systemic (low grade fever? body aches, tiredness, etc.).   They could be for the most part tolerated and disappear in a day or two.  Small price to pay for an effective COVID vaccine- but not for everybody.  Some would describe these temporary side effects as severe to them personally.  Others would not.  But if side effects are truly severe in a medical sense the vaccine might not be approved unless the benefits significantly outweigh the risks.  

[cruise kitty]

Hi all,  had my second Pfizer shot (or saltwater, who knows)  definite soreness and achey on shoulder & neck & back on side shot was received....& that's it so far.  Slight headache, but for myself, a full day in a mask does that to me.  

 

Interestingly, a large group was starting their J&J trial at the same time.   There was lots of "what trial are you in" in the waiting room, & oh , you lucky so & so's when someone would say Pfizer ;)

 

Once in what I would call the "lecture hall"  where you wait for your covid swab, shot, observation time, & are given education & instructions, we're separated with J&J on one side, Pfizer on the other....J&J has more strident reporting protocol,  they not only do daily temp checks, they also do daily oxygen pulse monitoring, & their reporting App is different than ours... I think the official name for the J&J study is "Ensemble" as that is what is printed on their bags, which, btw, are mush nicer than the ones we received,  (sort of canvas/burlap look, while ours were just black plastic :)  Our "swag" bags as it were, contain a thermometer, copy of our agreement, a card that we're supposed to carry around at all times, giving our study number code, & personal patient code as well as a 24 hour hotline in case we needed emergency medical care.

 

that's about it so far...  we go back on the 15th of December for antibodies test.

 

 

 

[TeeRick]

14 minutes ago, cruise kitty said:

Hi all,  had my second Pfizer shot (or saltwater, who knows)  definite soreness and achey on shoulder & neck & back on side shot was received....& that's it so far.  Slight headache, but for myself, a full day in a mask does that to me.  

 

Interestingly, a large group was starting their J&J trial at the same time.   There was lots of "what trial are you in" in the waiting room, & oh , you lucky so & so's when someone would say Pfizer 😉

 

Once in what I would call the "lecture hall"  where you wait for your covid swab, shot, observation time, & are given education & instructions, we're separated with J&J on one side, Pfizer on the other....J&J has more strident reporting protocol,  they not only do daily temp checks, they also do daily oxygen pulse monitoring, & their reporting App is different than ours... I think the official name for the J&J study is "Ensemble" as that is what is printed on their bags, which, btw, are mush nicer than the ones we received,  (sort of canvas/burlap look, while ours were just black plastic 🙂  Our "swag" bags as it were, contain a thermometer, copy of our agreement, a card that we're supposed to carry around at all times, giving our study number code, & personal patient code as well as a 24 hour hotline in case we needed emergency medical care.

 

that's about it so far...  we go back on the 15th of December for antibodies test.

 

 

 

cruise kitty thanks for the update!  Maybe you actually got the vaccine and not placebo saline since you had some soreness.

 

Yes the Janssen/J&J vaccine study is called ENSEMBLE and will enroll 60,000 worldwide.  I checked it out here in the Philadelphia area where they are recruiting at Temple University Hospital.  Looking for 1400 subjects over 18 here if anybody is interested.  It is a human adenovector vaccine not an mRNA vaccine like Pfizer's.

https://www.ensemblestudy.com//?utm_source=IQVIAmedia&utm_medium=google&utm_campaign=108823400618&utm_content=459121008412&utm_term=ensemble clinical trial&atid=JANUSENMS0000897&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-rj9BRCAARIsANB_4ADTzWvdSynzujhjW2xZcbCe7gEmpt07nuKuMB8OUBQlHq4O40uwCWIaAj7OEALw_wcB#!/

[LGW59]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

cruise kitty thanks for the update!  Maybe you actually got the vaccine and not placebo saline since you had some soreness.

 

Yes the Janssen/J&J vaccine study is called ENSEMBLE and will enroll 60,000 worldwide.  I checked it out here in the Philadelphia area where they are recruiting at Temple University Hospital.  Looking for 1400 subjects over 18 here if anybody is interested.  It is a human adenovector vaccine not an mRNA vaccine like Pfizer's.

https://www.ensemblestudy.com//?utm_source=IQVIAmedia&utm_medium=google&utm_campaign=108823400618&utm_content=459121008412&utm_term=ensemble clinical trial&atid=JANUSENMS0000897&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-rj9BRCAARIsANB_4ADTzWvdSynzujhjW2xZcbCe7gEmpt07nuKuMB8OUBQlHq4O40uwCWIaAj7OEALw_wcB#!/

I can see the light of a clear blue morning, I can see the light of a brand new day, oh and everything's gonna be alright...

[TeeRick]

Here is an update yesterday from Moncef Slaoui head of Operation Warp Speed in the US.  I think he is counting on approvals for both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in the next few weeks in estimating these numbers.

 

"We plan to have enough vaccine doses available for use in the U.S. population to immunize about 20 million individuals in the month of December and another 25 [million] to 30 million per month on an ongoing basis," Dr. Moncef Slaoui, scientific head of Operation Warp Speed, told reporters during a briefing at the White House on Friday.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/20-million-covid-19-vaccines-could-distributed-us-next-month-1547389

[cruise kitty]

22 hours ago, TeeRick said:

cruise kitty thanks for the update!  Maybe you actually got the vaccine and not placebo saline since you had some soreness.

 

Yes the Janssen/J&J vaccine study is called ENSEMBLE and will enroll 60,000 worldwide.  I checked it out here in the Philadelphia area where they are recruiting at Temple University Hospital.  Looking for 1400 subjects over 18 here if anybody is interested.  It is a human adenovector vaccine not an mRNA vaccine like Pfizer's.

https://www.ensemblestudy.com//?utm_source=IQVIAmedia&utm_medium=google&utm_campaign=108823400618&utm_content=459121008412&utm_term=ensemble clinical trial&atid=JANUSENMS0000897&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-rj9BRCAARIsANB_4ADTzWvdSynzujhjW2xZcbCe7gEmpt07nuKuMB8OUBQlHq4O40uwCWIaAj7OEALw_wcB#!/

 

Hi Rick, I spoke a little too soon yesterday, within an hour of posting I ended up with chills, low grade fever, body aches, very slight sore throat,  & a headache to end all headaches, this morning, I feel perfectly fine... lots of Advil did help though.

[TeeRick]

40 minutes ago, cruise kitty said:

 

Hi Rick, I spoke a little too soon yesterday, within an hour of posting I ended up with chills, low grade fever, body aches, very slight sore throat,  & a headache to end all headaches, this morning, I feel perfectly fine... lots of Advil did help though.

Similar to what others are reporting.  Great news that you now feel better! The good news is that you were probably in the vaccine group unless you got a reaction from the saline placebo. Possible I guess.  But I would guess that if it was placebo it would be more injection site soreness and not the more systemic reaction that you experienced.  It is interesting to know what might cause these symptoms.  Just a general heightened immune response and reaction to the antigen (SPIKE protein) being produced in your cells?  Or is the SPIKE protein itself a bit bioactive?  All fascinating.  Welcome to the very forefront of Science!

Edited November 14, 2020 by TeeRick

[nocl]

6 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Similar to what others are reporting.  Great news that you now feel better! The good news is that you were probably in the vaccine group unless you got a reaction from the saline placebo. Possible I guess.  But I would guess that if it was placebo it would be more injection site soreness and not the more systemic reaction that you experienced.  It is interesting to know what might cause these symptoms.  Just a general heightened immune response and reaction to the antigen (SPIKE protein) being produced in your cells?  Or is the SPIKE protein itself a bit bioactive?  All fascinating.  Welcome to the very forefront of Science!

since the second injection reaction was more severe than the first unlikely it is placebo.

 

Even so best practices for avoiding infection should be continued.

Edited November 15, 2020 by nocl

[cruise kitty]

2 hours ago, nocl said:

since the second injection reaction was more severe than the first unlikely it is placebo.

 

Even so best practices for avoiding infection should be continued.

 

I'm hopeful, but that's it :)  I did this because I'm not a healthcare worker, or a scientist, & it's the only way I'm able to contribute other than following best practices.

I'll still be wearing my mask when I'm around anyone other than DH & practicing social distancing.  As far as I'm concerned, I'll continue wearing a mask & social distancing as much as possible until Fauci says it's safe to do otherwise.  

 

That's one thing I hope people realize, we're going to need to continue wearing masks for probably the next year at the very least. 

[zanderblue]

Similar to @cruise kitty I attended my 2nd appointment for the Novovax study last week. Vital signs were monitored followed by a short exam by doctor which focused on my neck and throat (lymph glands???) and then listening to my lungs.

Then the injection; bit of a reaction to it in the form of intense burning sensation during and immediately afterwards. Settled down after 20 minutes or so. 

Back in a coupe of weeks for further checks and to provide blood sample for antibody testing.

For what it’s worth, I got chatting to the research nurse during my observation period about the Pfizer vaccine and she said that their study announcement was hugely encouraging.

[mimbecky]

11 hours ago, TeeRick said:

I think he is counting on approvals for both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in the next few weeks in estimating these numbers.

 

"We plan to have enough vaccine doses available for use in the U.S. population to immunize about 20 million individuals in the month of December and another 25 [million] to 30 million per month on an ongoing basis," Dr. Moncef Slaoui, scientific head of Operation Warp Speed, told reporters during a briefing at the White House on Friday.

 

300 million people....10 months>>>???  Ugggg.

[nocl]

8 hours ago, cruise kitty said:

 

I'm hopeful, but that's it 🙂  I did this because I'm not a healthcare worker, or a scientist, & it's the only way I'm able to contribute other than following best practices.

I'll still be wearing my mask when I'm around anyone other than DH & practicing social distancing.  As far as I'm concerned, I'll continue wearing a mask & social distancing as much as possible until Fauci says it's safe to do otherwise.  

 

That's one thing I hope people realize, we're going to need to continue wearing masks for probably the next year at the very least. 

if only everyone had the same view as you.

[norn iron]

7 hours ago, mimbecky said:

300 million people....10 months>>>???  Ugggg.

It is a challenge, and then escalate that out worldwide!!

 

I spoke over this weekend with two GP's about the roll out in the UK, and they are preparing for early December, however one did say "its a logistical nightmare'

The lowest temperature available for delivery in the UK is -12, and as the temperature of the vaccine rises from -75 doctors will have around 3 days to use their supply.

Shipments will be in approximately 970 doses per delivery.

Once the vaccine has been given to the patient they will have to be observed for 15 minutes for immediate  reactions, this has to be carried out whilst maintaining social distancing.

 

Both doctors were accepting the challenge however they know it won't be without its problems. 

[terrydtx]

31 minutes ago, norn iron said:

Once the vaccine has been given to the patient they will have to be observed for 15 minutes for immediate  reactions, this has to be carried out whilst maintaining social distancing.

This is not outside of normal. I got my seasonal flu shot last month and I had to wait 15 minutes before I could leave the doctors office. I was able to maintain social distancing as well.  

Edited November 15, 2020 by terrydtx

[terrydtx]

Even after being vaccinated, I will still practice social distancing and will wear a mask when social distancing is not possible. I get a flu shot every year but still try to stay away from flu hot spots just in case my flu shot doesn't protect me.

 

Some here had said earlier they want Dr. Fauci to say it is safe before they will cruise or go out in public.. I want a majority of doctors and scientists to say it is safe, Fauci has flip flopped so many times during this pandemic, I can no longer trust his advice.

[norn iron]

9 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

This is not outside of normal. I got my seasonal flu shot last month and I had to wait 15 minutes before I could leave the doctors office. I was able to maintain social distancing as well.  

I'm not disputing that. 

Close to where I live there are a large number of small rural GP practices with very small premises and low staffing numbers. 

The GP's who I was talking to have reasonably large premises and staffing numbers and it was they who highlighted the issue.

All the countries affected by Covid are going to have their own individual challenges. What works in the USA or UK may be a bigger challenge in third world nations.

[TeeRick]

9 hours ago, zanderblue said:

Similar to @cruise kitty I attended my 2nd appointment for the Novovax study last week. Vital signs were monitored followed by a short exam by doctor which focused on my neck and throat (lymph glands???) and then listening to my lungs.

Then the injection; bit of a reaction to it in the form of intense burning sensation during and immediately afterwards. Settled down after 20 minutes or so. 

Back in a coupe of weeks for further checks and to provide blood sample for antibody testing.

For what it’s worth, I got chatting to the research nurse during my observation period about the Pfizer vaccine and she said that their study announcement was hugely encouraging.

I am hopeful that the Novavax vaccine will be successful.  It is a more traditional protein subunit vaccine (recombinant SPIKE) in their adjuvant formulation.  A tried and true approach for many licensed vaccines.  GSK is using the same approach.

[TeeRick]

9 hours ago, mimbecky said:

300 million people....10 months>>>???  Ugggg.

Unfortunately in the US we will only approach a fraction of that 300 million number that will actually step forward to be vaccinated in 2021. And hopefully there will be multiple vaccines approved too.  

[K.T.B.]

10 hours ago, mimbecky said:

300 million people....10 months>>>???  Ugggg.

 

300 million won't get the shot.  If we're lucky, 60% will.  Plus I doubt many people under the age of 19 will get vaccinated immediately.  I'm still hopeful that my wife and I can get vaccinated before July, however, mainly for very selfish reasons.  We have a cruise booked for Oct. 2021 and final payment is due on July 29th.  Granted, the cruise could be cancelled by Celebrity, BUT if we're vaccinated before that payment is due, I'll pay it.  If not, then I'll assess things then.  If no vaccine, then we won't cruise.  I know a vaccine is not a "silver bullet", but being vaccinated will ease my fears in travelling, even if others are not vaccinated.

[VitaminSea53]

I wonder if Celebrity can or will REQUIRE all passengers to be vaccinated for COVID 19? (Just like some countries require certain vaccinations before entry).  .....Or prove that you have a positive antibody test . I would rather that then have to maintain masks and social distancing on board. After all, a cruise is a vacation to escape the ‘every day’. 

[d9704011]

3 minutes ago, VitaminSea53 said:

I wonder if Celebrity can or will REQUIRE all passengers to be vaccinated for COVID 19? (Just like some countries require certain vaccinations before entry).  .....Or prove that you have a positive antibody test . I would rather that then have to maintain masks and social distancing on board. After all, a cruise is a vacation to escape the ‘every day’. 

I don’t know whether a cruise line can/will require proof of vaccination or antibodies or whatever but if they think that’s going to be necessary to begin cruising again they may be waiting a long time before their customers will be able to comply, even if they’re willing.

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, VitaminSea53 said:

I wonder if Celebrity can or will REQUIRE all passengers to be vaccinated for COVID 19? (Just like some countries require certain vaccinations before entry).  .....Or prove that you have a positive antibody test . I would rather that then have to maintain masks and social distancing on board. After all, a cruise is a vacation to escape the ‘every day’. 

They can require passengers to be vaccinated, but even if they do so once the vaccine is made available in sufficient quantities, there's no guarantee that vaccination will be the sole safety measure against COVID-19 in the short term. 

[Arizona Wildcat]

18 hours ago, mimbecky said:

300 million people....10 months>>>???  Ugggg.

Pfizer is not part of Warp Speed.  Pfizer and its partners - at least 3 from UK, India and China - are talking about a billion doses.

[Arizona Wildcat]

5 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Even if all vaccinated, COVID could appear on board as not 100%effective.  Masks likely to be required for quite a while even with a good vaccination rate

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Arizona Wildcat