Additional Cancellations in October?

[Cruiseboy06]

10 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

Where did Carnival announce they will have an announcement on the 24th? I must have missed that. July 24 is 100 days from the April 15 extension —  is it a bad thing if the no sail order gets extended?

 

The answer to your question is simple: there is not enough information available to come to a conclusion. You should continue to check Carnival.com for any updated travel advisories. As Carnival is an industry leader that excels with transparency and alleviating any concerns, you can find the answer to any of your questions on their website.

Peasy Easy answer: on the 24th The CDC'S No Sail order expires, but most likely they will extend it!!   When they announce the go ahead or extension of no sail order Carnival will make announcement of their fleet and future cruising plans!   That''s why they are sending Fantasy to Turkey........................ 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Cruiseboy06

[xDisconnections]

2 minutes ago, Cruiseboy06 said:

Peasy Easy answer: on the 24th The CDC'S No Sail order expires, but most likely they will extend it!!   When they announce the go ahead or extension of no sail order Carnival will make announcement of their fleet and future cruising plans!   That''s why they are sending Fantasy to Turkey........................ 

Is a CDC No Sail Order even necessary if the cruise lines can prove they are acting responsibly? They seem to all be following recommendations from CLIA, of which Duffy used to be the President, and have extended their own voluntary suspension of operations prior to any No Sail Order reaching such time periods.

 

The possible No Sail Order extension has no correlation to when Carnival will announce the future plans of their vessels. The timeframe of this announcement has nothing to do as to the reason they are sending the Fantasy to Turkey.

[Cruiseboy06]

7 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

Is a CDC No Sail Order even necessary if the cruise lines can prove they are acting responsibly? They seem to all be following recommendations from CLIA, of which Duffy used to be the President, and have extended their own voluntary suspension of operations prior to any No Sail Order reaching such time periods.

 

The possible No Sail Order extension has no correlation to when Carnival will announce the future plans of their vessels. The timeframe of this announcement has nothing to do as to the reason they are sending the Fantasy to Turkey.

The CDC has final say too rather or not if the cruiselines can resume cruising after the 24th of July.....   So are you saying if they extend the no sail order for next 90 days  and Carnival decides to resume to cruise on Oct 1st so can they ignore the CDC?

Edited July 15, 2020 by Cruiseboy06

[boatseller]

14 hours ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

I am not disagreeing with the US crap job. 50 state governors throwing darts at a dart board strapped to the back of their head. LOL.

But other countries are also having their problems. 

• Spain places 160,000 under lockdown
• EU drops Serbia, Montenegro from safe travel list
• India places Bangalore back on lockdown
• Hong Kong imposes new restrictions
• France makes mask wearing mandatory in public
• Australia cases top 10k.
• Iran closes mosques, schools
• WHO warns: "there will be no return to normal"

Yep, all these other countries who are supposedly doing such a great job have absolutely nothing under control, not even close.  New Zealand/Taiwan etc. are 1 infected tourist away from another unsustainable lockdown.  They can't keep their borders closed forever.

 

Hong Kong shutting down again over just 52 cases?  Ridiculous.  They're setting themselves up for years of failure.

 

Florida, Japan, the Netherlands and others are taking the only practical approach.  Protect the vulnerable and ride it out.  So, yeah, Florida is doing a fantastic job of managing this and we'll be over it before the MTA's next bankruptcy.

 

Florida is ready for cruising to start right after the NSO expires.  I'm booked in October and will probably book another for November.

[Eli_6]

Ugh. I have final payment due in a few days for a late October cruise in a Havana on the Panorama.  I really don't want to pay the $2900 I owe on the cruise if it is just going to be cancelled two days later and then have to deal with the whole refund process.  I wish they would just go ahead and cancel the cruise if they knew they were going to cancel them!  

[xDisconnections]

1 minute ago, Eli_6 said:

Ugh. I have final payment due in a few days for a late October cruise in a Havana on the Panorama.  I really don't want to pay the $2900 I owe on the cruise if it is just going to be cancelled two days later and then have to deal with the whole refund process.  I wish they would just go ahead and cancel the cruise if they knew they were going to cancel them!  

That’s the whole point of keeping the cruise going as planned with them canceling it later lol

Edited July 15, 2020 by xDisconnections

[Eli_6]

3 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

That’s the whole point of keeping the cruise going as planned with them canceling it later lol

Maybe if I took a FCC for the 3k, but not if I want a refund. Then that just makes extra work for them.  I guess they are counting on enough people taking the FCC.  

 

My deposit was only $99 and I am not tying

 up $3k for 90 days and I don't see them sailing at this point so I will probably just lose the $99 deposit or try to call to get a payment extension.  

 

 

[xDisconnections]

6 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

Maybe if I took a FCC for the 3k, but not if I want a refund. Then that just makes extra work for them.  I guess they are counting on enough people taking the FCC.  

 

My deposit was only $99 and I am not tying

 up $3k for 90 days and I don't see them sailing at this point so I will probably just lose the $99 deposit or try to call to get a payment extension.  

 

 

It’ll take 90 days for a refund lol

[tonit964]

10 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

It’ll take 90 days for a refund lol

At least.

[BlerkOne]

47 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Yep, all these other countries who are supposedly doing such a great job have absolutely nothing under control, not even close.  New Zealand/Taiwan etc. are 1 infected tourist away from another unsustainable lockdown.  They can't keep their borders closed forever.

 

Only 195 countries in the world.

 

47 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Hong Kong shutting down again over just 52 cases?  Ridiculous.  They're setting themselves up for years of failure.

 

China is calling the shots.

 

47 minutes ago, boatseller said:

 

Florida, Japan, the Netherlands and others are taking the only practical approach.  Protect the vulnerable and ride it out.  So, yeah, Florida is doing a fantastic job of managing this and we'll be over it before the MTA's next bankruptcy.

 

Laughable. The only non-scientific and deadly approach.

 

47 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Florida is ready for cruising to start right after the NSO expires.  I'm booked in October and will probably book another for November.

 

If Florida starting cruising again without the virus under control nationwide, Carnival is guaranteed to go bankrupt.

 

[boatseller]

4 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Only 195 countries in the world.

China is calling the shots.

Laughable. The only non-scientific and deadly approach.

If Florida starting cruising again without the virus under control nationwide, Carnival is guaranteed to go bankrupt.

Yeah, 195 countries are kidding them selves.  Nothing they're doing will have any long term benefit.

Of course, I just didn't want to go there.

Check your facts.  Florida's loss rate is the median.  Laugh all you want, you'll still be laughing while we're cruising.  That's science.

The virus will never be under control, just like influenza.  Sorry, it's pretty much the same thing now.  But please, live in your fantasy world, I guess not Fantasyland though, while we're cruising.

[TexasBrit]

33 minutes ago, boatseller said:

That's science.

The virus will never be under control, just like influenza.  Sorry, it's pretty much the same thing now.  But please, live in your fantasy world, I guess not Fantasyland though, while we're cruising.

Seems like you are already in the fantasy world.

Totally out of step with any scientific reality, sadly.

You are probably right that the COVID-19 is not going to disappear, but it can be brought under control with

a systematic and enforced approach which is what is happening in many places, but not in the US right now.

Enjoy your fantasy cruise, it will be the only one you'll be on for a while.

[boatseller]

11 minutes ago, TexasBrit said:

Seems like you are already in the fantasy world.

Totally out of step with any scientific reality, sadly.

You are probably right that the COVID-19 is not going to disappear, but it can be brought under control with

a systematic and enforced approach which is what is happening in many places, but not in the US right now.

Enjoy your fantasy cruise, it will be the only one you'll be on for a while.

Except I literally can go to Fantasyland tomorrow, or Hogsmeade or Sesame Street.  So yeah, Floridians and our guests are enjoying life right now.  And these same people are ready to set sail.

 

So much for 'science'.  I understand how frustrated you feel when people make decisions you don't agree with.

 

"a systematic and enforced approach" Really?  How's that working out with the Flu?  Do tell, exactly (be precise) what science suggest we can better control the ccv vs influenza?  A link to a cited peer reviewed study will do.  Like I said, New Zealand is 1 tourist away from losing control, again...and again...and again...and again..and it will never end.  How is that sustainable?  I'd love to know, with science.

 

You know, in every one of these fun debates, I ask for the 'science' that's so oft referenced and...it never manifests.  Funny how that works.  But please, your chance to be the first.

[xDisconnections]

12 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Except I literally can go to Fantasyland tomorrow, or Hogsmeade or Sesame Street.  So yeah, Floridians and our guests are enjoying life right now.  And these same people are ready to set sail.

Floridian here. I’m not ready to sail again yet.

[TexasBrit]

26 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Except I literally can go to Fantasyland tomorrow, or Hogsmeade or Sesame Street.  So yeah, Floridians and our guests are enjoying life right now.  And these same people are ready to set sail.

 

So much for 'science'.  I understand how frustrated you feel when people make decisions you don't agree with.

 

"a systematic and enforced approach" Really?  How's that working out with the Flu?  Do tell, exactly (be precise) what science suggest we can better control the ccv vs influenza?  A link to a cited peer reviewed study will do.  Like I said, New Zealand is 1 tourist away from losing control, again...and again...and again...and again..and it will never end.  How is that sustainable?  I'd love to know, with science.

 

You know, in every one of these fun debates, I ask for the 'science' that's so oft referenced and...it never manifests.  Funny how that works.  But please, your chance to be the first.

You want science?  Check here:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Look at all the data from each country including the graphs and charts.

You can also look up many other scientific studies. I am not doing your literature search for you.

 

The point is to keep the new cases (and deaths) going down, not up.

Once that is accomplished, a vaccine, together with effective treatments will be needed to keep the

cases down.
Flu virus is very different, in its transmissibility and the symptoms for most people are nowhere near as severe with the numbers in ICUs, so its not the same burden on the health care systems. And there is a reasonably effective flu vaccine available every year.

But please go ahead with your lovely dreams.

Go and enjoy all the fun in bars in Florida. I hear it is great!

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, boatseller said:

Yeah, 195 countries are kidding them selves.  Nothing they're doing will have any long term benefit.

Of course, I just didn't want to go there.

Check your facts.  Florida's loss rate is the median.  Laugh all you want, you'll still be laughing while we're cruising.  That's science.

The virus will never be under control, just like influenza.  Sorry, it's pretty much the same thing now.  But please, live in your fantasy world, I guess not Fantasyland though, while we're cruising.

 

Cruising has already begun in other parts of the world. And more coming online before a cruise ship is allowed to tie up in Florida. Check those facts.

 

And Coid-19 is much more deadly than the flu with long term impacts that may well last a (shortened) lifetime. There are treatments for flu. No, the two are nothing close to the same. But you are welcomed to your alt-reality.

 

The rest of the world doesn't care what FL loss rate is - they care about the infection rate which is out of control. The the US can't get control of the virus, no cruising for you.

[BlerkOne]

45 minutes ago, boatseller said:

"a systematic and enforced approach" Really?  How's that working out with the Flu?  Do tell, exactly (be precise) what science suggest we can better control the ccv vs influenza?  A link to a cited peer reviewed study will do.  Like I said, New Zealand is 1 tourist away from losing control, again...and again...and again...and again..and it will never end.  How is that sustainable?  I'd love to know, with science.

 

 

 

A side effect of getting Covid-19 under control will likely result in a reduction in flu cases, and for that matter noro cases. How? Masks, social distancing, and maybe people will start washing hands regularly without having to be told.

 

I don't know why you keep mentioning New Zealand. They have it under control, and a grand total of 22 deaths. TWENTY TWO.

 

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-current-situation/covid-19-current-cases

 

 

[boatseller]

14 minutes ago, TexasBrit said:

You want science?  Check here:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Look at all the data from each country including the graphs and charts.

You can also look up many other scientific studies. I am not doing your literature search for you.

 

The point is to keep the new cases (and deaths) going down, not up.

Once that is accomplished, a vaccine, together with effective treatments will be needed to keep the

cases down.
Flu virus is very different, in its transmissibility and the symptoms for most people are nowhere near as severe with the numbers in ICUs, so its not the same burden on the health care systems. And there is a reasonably effective flu vaccine available every year.

But please go ahead with your lovely dreams.

Go and enjoy all the fun in bars in Florida. I hear it is great!

Yes, I know the site well, which is why I say Florida is doing very well compared to Europe and half the States.  

 

No, the point is to minimize loss, that's it.  The higher the recoveries the better.  20/30/40 somethings with a cold is not a crisis.  Flatten the Curve, not Prevent all Infections.  We may be approaching ideal utilization in Florida so, yeah, we're good.

 

No, influenza and C19 present very similarly (I can't believe I have to point that out).  Severity of Influenza is actually worse for younger people.

 

No, the effectiveness of the flu vaccine wildly over estimated.  Maybe 30% combining coverage and effectiveness.

 

Looks like I need to do the research for you.

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Yes, I know the site well, which is why I say Florida is doing very well compared to Europe and half the States.  

 

Yes, Europe is doing better. That is why they resumed cruising.

 

4 minutes ago, boatseller said:

 

No, the point is to minimize loss, that's it.  The higher the recoveries the better.  20/30/40 somethings with a cold is not a crisis.  Flatten the Curve, not Prevent all Infections.  We may be approaching ideal utilization in Florida so, yeah, we're good.

 

The higher to positivity tests, the worse off you are, and Florida is in the toilet.

 

4 minutes ago, boatseller said:

 

No, influenza and C19 present very similarly (I can't believe I have to point that out).  Severity of Influenza is actually worse for younger people.

 

What flu causes blot clots in organs or long term heart and lung damage? Young people may seem to recover faster, but are also likely to keep getting the virus as immunity will be nil.

 

 

4 minutes ago, boatseller said:

No, the effectiveness of the flu vaccine wildly over estimated.  Maybe 30% combining coverage and effectiveness.

 

Looks like I need to do the research for you.

 

Maybe 50%. Maybe more. Even if it only prevents 30% of cases, and reduces severity in another 30%, that is a helluva lot better than anything available for c19.

[boatseller]

30 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Cruising has already begun in other parts of the world. And more coming online before a cruise ship is allowed to tie up in Florida. Check those facts.

 

And Coid-19 is much more deadly than the flu with long term impacts that may well last a (shortened) lifetime. There are treatments for flu. No, the two are nothing close to the same. But you are welcomed to your alt-reality.

 

The rest of the world doesn't care what FL loss rate is - they care about the infection rate which is out of control. The the US can't get control of the virus, no cruising for you.

I know, places where far more people have died.

 

No, it's not.  Check your facts.  With an IF of ~.15% and dropping, C19 is hardly 'much more deadly'.  The long term effects are merely observations of conditions in C19 patients that have been observed for years prior to C19.  There is yet no evidence they are C19 related.

 

The flu vaccine is maybe 30% effective combining coverage and effectiveness.

 

Then they're caring about the wrong thing...letting people die while staying fixated on people are aren't actually sick.  Terrible.  20/30/40 somethings with a cold, if they even know it, is not a crisis.  Thankfully, our leaders here actually care about people's lives.

 

Florida took steps early on to protect the vulnerable and it's working.  Cruising will probably do the same thing.  They won't outright prevent 80 year old grandma from cruising, but they'll do their best to convince her not to.

[BlerkOne]

Just now, boatseller said:

I know, places where far more people have died.

 

No, it's not.  Check your facts.  With an IF of ~.15% and dropping, C19 is hardly 'much more deadly'.  The long term effects are merely observations of conditions in C19 patients that have been observed for years prior to C19.  There is yet no evidence they are C19 related.

 

The flu vaccine is maybe 30% effective combining coverage and effectiveness.

 

Then they're caring about the wrong thing...letting people die while staying fixated on people are aren't actually sick.  Terrible.  20/30/40 somethings with a cold, if they even know it, is not a crisis.  Thankfully, our leaders here actually care about people's lives.

 

Florida took steps early on to protect the vulnerable and it's working.  Cruising will probably do the same thing.  They won't outright prevent 80 year old grandma from cruising, but they'll do their best to convince her not to.

 

You make assertions with nothing to back them up. Where did you get your medical degree?

 

The youth are increasingly finding themselves in the ICU, if not the morgue. Real leaders don't have gag hospitals from reporting the truth. Fake leaders are into information hiding.

 

Young people with no medical history in ICUs is alarming

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/07/13/890403682/miami-hospital-icu-doctor-new-influx-of-patients-is-younger-than-before

 

 

 

 

 

[boatseller]

8 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Yes, Europe is doing better. That is why they resumed cruising.

 

The higher to positivity tests, the worse off you are, and Florida is in the toilet.

 

What flu causes blot clots in organs or long term heart and lung damage? Young people may seem to recover faster, but are also likely to keep getting the virus as immunity will be nil.

 

Maybe 50%. Maybe more. Even if it only prevents 30% of cases, and reduces severity in another 30%, that is a helluva lot better than anything available for c19.

No, Europe is not doing better.  Check your own site.  Florida is way down on the list.

 

No, higher positive cases is irrelevant.  It is not an indicator of prevalence or outcome.  It's just a the number of positive test results.  Or loss rate is 12% of New York with 70% of their case total.  I'm good with that.

 

Again, that is based on a handful of observations in patients with C19.  And those conditions are not unique to C19 patients.

 

Ok, when a vaccine is available, if it ever is (different topic) people can take it.  But out history with coronaviruses suggest SC2 will naturally fade into the background, herd immunity.  That is one area where SC2 and influenza are very different.

 

And please, don't try anything with antibodies.  The science on that will take years to fully develop so the OMG!  Only 6 Months! doesn't mean anything right now.

 

There is no reason to postpone cruising any longer, especially from Florida where what matters most is under control.  And realistically, cruising with Floridians is even better since the higher immunity rate naturally slows the spread.  So stay away from those Kiwis.

[BlerkOne]

Just now, boatseller said:

 

No, higher positive cases is irrelevant.  It is not an indicator of prevalence or outcome.  It's just a the number of positive test results.  Or loss rate is 12% of New York with 70% of their case total.  I'm good with that.

 

How about something relevant - like only July cases? Florida gets a F--

 

Just now, boatseller said:

 

Ok, when a vaccine is available, if it ever is (different topic) people can take it.  But out history with coronaviruses suggest SC2 will naturally fade into the background, herd immunity.  That is one area where SC2 and influenza are very different.

 

Herd immunity is not possible with c19.

 

Just now, boatseller said:

 

There is no reason to postpone cruising any longer, especially from Florida where what matters most is under control.  And realistically, cruising with Floridians is even better since the higher immunity rate naturally slows the spread.  So stay away from those Kiwis.

 

No need. I stay away from Fool-Aid.

[boatseller]

23 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

You make assertions with nothing to back them up. Where did you get your medical degree?

 

The youth are increasingly finding themselves in the ICU, if not the morgue. Real leaders don't have gag hospitals from reporting the truth. Fake leaders are into information hiding.

 

Young people with no medical history in ICUs is alarming

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/07/13/890403682/miami-hospital-icu-doctor-new-influx-of-patients-is-younger-than-before

Pro tip: Read the article before posting it.  "Mortality has not been a major issue because they are younger patients."

 

Look, you can quit while I'm ahead.  It's called argumentum ad verecundiam and primarily used when the proponent lack a credible argument.  Medical degree?  Srsly?  You don't need a medical degree or any epidemiological training to understand this.  We're not folding protein chains here.

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, boatseller said:

Pro tip: Read the article before posting it.  "Mortality has not been a major issue because they are younger patients."

 

Look, you can quit while I'm ahead.  It's called argumentum ad verecundiam and primarily used when the proponent lack a credible argument.  Medical degree?  Srsly?  You don't need a medical degree or any epidemiological training to understand this.  We're not folding protein chains here.

 

Why quit? When you post at best, half truths?

 

And also they get sicker than the previous [wave]. Mortality has not been a major issue because they are younger patients. But I think as the days go on, we might also see a change in mortality.

 

Are you Anthony Sabatini in disguise?

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/07/15/anthony-sabatini-florida-is-doing-fine-keilar-sot-nr-vpx.cnn