CCL to remove two more ships from fleet beyond previous disclosure

[Btimmer]

On 8/28/2020 at 1:47 PM, ski ww said:

This is sure keeping the breakers yards busy. Wonder what it feels like to intentionally run a ship aground?

We were on the Volendam's Amazon cruise in December, 2019 when it went aground in the Amazon at 4am in the morning.  Personally, I felt nothing; but others did.  It took around 7 hours to get freed under our own power.

[HamOp]

9 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

The score card:

 

The ten confirmed as sold:

1. Carnival Fantasy - sold for scrap and being broken up at Aliaga, Turkey

2. Carnival Inspiration - sold for scrap and being broken up at Aliaga, Turkey 

3. Carnival Imagination - sold for scrap and arrived at Aliaga, Turkey on 14 Sep

 

Wonder how much a cruise ship is sold for $$ as scrap?

[AtlantaCruiser72]

14 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

The score card:

 

The ten confirmed as sold:

1. Carnival Fantasy - sold for scrap and being broken up at Aliaga, Turkey

2. Carnival Inspiration - sold for scrap and being broken up at Aliaga, Turkey 

3. Carnival Imagination - sold for scrap and arrived at Aliaga, Turkey on 14 Sep

4. Costa Victoria - sold to Genova Trasporti Marittimi for future scrapping
5. Costa neoRomantica - sold to Celestyal Cruises as Celestyal Experience
6. HAL Rotterdam sold to Fred Olsen as Borealis
7. HAL Amsterdam sold to Fred Olsen as Bolette
8. HAL Maasdam sold to Seajets as Aegean Myth
9. HAL Veendam sold to  Seajets as Aegean Majesty

10. P&O Oceana sold to Seajets as Queen of the Oceans

 

Long term layup/defacto decommissioned:

 

11. Carnival Fascination - moved to long term layup in Cadiz, Spain; no timeline for return to service

 

So, if you count Carnival Fascination, that leaves another seven unnamed ships to be disposed of to make eighteen - I'm not counting internal transfers within the Carnival Group, i.e. Golden Princess and Star Princess to P&O Australia  

 

 

Weren’t the P&O Australia Pacific Aria and Pacific Dawn previously announced as sold to CMV as part of the 13 vessels leaving the fleet, or were they part of a previous (pre COVID) announcement???  Not sure if you purposely left those out, or if it was an oversight. Obviously with the collapse of CMV the sale of those vessels is now in question. 

Edited September 16, 2020 by AtlantaCruiser72

[Copper10-8]

3 minutes ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

The P&O Australia Pacific Aria and Pacific Dawn were previously announced as sold to CMV as part of the 13 vessels leaving the fleet. Not sure if you purposely left those out, or if it was an oversight. Obviously with the collapse of CMV the sale of those vessels is now in question. 

 

Left out purposely! Pacific Area and Pacific Dawn were sold to CMV prior to fiscal 2020. There were actually two additional Carnival Group plc ships sold in that fiscal year which were Costa Atlantica and Costa Mediterranea who both went to Chinese interests

 

 

[AtlantaCruiser72]

2 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Left out purposely! Pacific Area and Pacific Dawn were sold to CMV prior to fiscal 2020. There were actually two additional Carnival Group plc ships sold in that fiscal year which were Costa Atlantica and Costa Mediterranea who both went to Chinese interests

 

 

Thanks for clarifying!  Since it’s all being done piecemeal, and without Carnival Corp identifying specific ships at the time of announcement, it’s getting VERY hard to figure out which ships are actually leaving the company. 

[voyageur9]

Assuming the last two smaller ships are also destined for the auction block or breakers' beach, then HAL will have abandoned the small(er) ships market. Wonder whether that also signals a significant shift in target demographic -- given that so many of HAL's most loyal clients were older and many preferred the now-gone smaller ships.

If the four Vistas are the smallest and the elegant explorer crowd must look elsewhere, then HAL seems like just another mid-market line aimed at a middle-aged market. Not too many children, not many onboard activities but nothing special about the itineraries and smaller ports no longer longer a lure. 

What's the brand identity?

 

[DaveOKC]

14 minutes ago, voyageur9 said:

Assuming the last two smaller ships are also destined for the auction block or breakers' beach, then HAL will have abandoned the small(er) ships market. Wonder whether that also signals a significant shift in target demographic -- given that so many of HAL's most loyal clients were older and many preferred the now-gone smaller ships.

If the four Vistas are the smallest and the elegant explorer crowd must look elsewhere, then HAL seems like just another mid-market line aimed at a middle-aged market. Not too many children, not many onboard activities but nothing special about the itineraries and smaller ports no longer longer a lure. 

What's the brand identity?

 

Princess!  I see HAL being merged into Princess, much like GM merged Olds, Pontiac and then Buick into one brand.  I would hate to see this, but I think it is likely to happen.  Good timing for it too - they can blame it on the Virus, much like everyone else seems to be doing for everything now-a-days.

 

[St Pete Cruiser]

1 hour ago, DaveOKC said:

Princess!  I see HAL being merged into Princess, much like GM merged Olds, Pontiac and then Buick into one brand.  I would hate to see this, but I think it is likely to happen.  Good timing for it too - they can blame it on the Virus, much like everyone else seems to be doing for everything now-a-days.

 

 I hope not, but it is possible. 

[TiogaCruiser]

2 hours ago, voyageur9 said:

Assuming the last two smaller ships are also destined for the auction block or breakers' beach, then HAL will have abandoned the small(er) ships market. Wonder whether that also signals a significant shift in target demographic -- given that so many of HAL's most loyal clients were older and many preferred the now-gone smaller ships.

If the four Vistas are the smallest and the elegant explorer crowd must look elsewhere, then HAL seems like just another mid-market line aimed at a middle-aged market. Not too many children, not many onboard activities but nothing special about the itineraries and smaller ports no longer longer a lure. 

What's the brand identity?

 

It seems to me a lot of this focus shift started a few years ago. HAL had pretty much abandoned the small and medium ship market. Covid is just driving in the nails quicker.

 

on Prinsendam’s last voyage much of the theme of many of the lectures came down to “you can’t offer 2 products”.

 

I personally think HAL fully committed to that thesis when they launched Massdam’s specialty program, then did little to support and advertise the difference.  Maasdam’s itineraries were mixed in with other ships (under “different dates available”) without really pointing out the special features (speakers, enrichment, zodiac tours in some locations) and lack of features (such as Club HAL). Not providing proper publicity could easily lead to confusion. 

Edited September 16, 2020 by TiogaCruiser

[Copper10-8]

58 minutes ago, St Pete Cruiser said:

 I hope not, but it is possible. 

 

Not going to happen, no worries 😉 

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Not going to happen, no worries 😉 

 

I hope you are correct.  But, how can you be so sure?

 

And, if such an amalgamation of brands should take place, why should the brand be Princess?  Holland America Line has the history.  

[FredT]

55 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I hope you are correct.  But, how can you be so sure?

 

And, if such an amalgamation of brands should take place, why should the brand be Princess?  Holland America Line has the history.  

Probably because HAL's "reputation" is that of a cruise line for us "older" folk, where Princess has a reputation as a solid mass market cruise line for families...   And us "older folk" are dying off quickly. 

[cbr663]

Looks like that number has climbed to 18 ships leaving:

 

"A total of 18 less efficient ships have left or are expected to leave the fleet, representing approximately 12 percent of pre-pause capacity and only three percent of operating income in 2019."

 

https://www.carnivalcorp.com/node/62011/html

[Copper10-8]

The score card updated:

 

The twelve confirmed as sold (one on long term charter):

1. Carnival Fantasy - sold for scrap and being broken up at Aliaga, Turkey

2. Carnival Inspiration - sold for scrap and being broken up at Aliaga, Turkey 

3. Carnival Imagination - sold for scrap and arrived at Aliaga, Turkey on 14 Sep

4. Carnival Fascination - sold (probably also for scrap - currently at Cadiz, Spain)

5. Costa Victoria - sold to Genova Trasporti Marittimi for future scrapping
6. Costa neoRomantica - sold to Celestyal Cruises as Celestyal Experience
7. HAL Rotterdam sold to Fred Olsen as Borealis
8. HAL Amsterdam sold to Fred Olsen as Bolette
9. HAL Maasdam sold to Seajets as Aegean Myth
10. HAL Veendam sold to  Seajets as Aegean Majesty

11. P&O Oceana sold to Seajets as Queen of the Oceans

12. Princess Cruises' Sun Princess on long term charter to Japan's Peaceboat organization

 

The four sold prior to fiscal 2020:

 

1. Pacific Area sold to CMV as Ida Pfeiffer (TransOcean) eff. May 2021 (CMV went bankrupt in July 2020)

2. Pacific Dawn sold to CMV as Amy Johnson eff. May 2021 (CMV went bankrupt in July 2020)

3. Costa Atlantica sold to CSSC (China) Shipping, a joint venture with Carnival Corp eff Jan 2020 

4. Costa Mediterranea sold to CSSC (China) Shipping, a joint venture with Carnival Corp eff 2021

 

 

 

 

 

[Aquahound]

6 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

6. Costa neoRomantica - sold to Celestyal Cruises as Celestyal Experience
 

 

That ship still strikes me as one of the ugliest cruise ships I've seen.  I remember pulling in to Catania and having my view ruined by that tub.  😁

 

[Copper10-8]

2 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

That ship still strikes me as one of the ugliest cruise ships I've seen.  I remember pulling in to Catania and having my view ruined by that tub.  😁

 

 

Gotta love those "bolt on" balconies just like some in Carnival's Fantasy class. Try the former Costa Allegra, originally built as the container ship Annie Johnson, for having fallen off the ugly wagon

 

[rkacruiser]

4 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

Gotta love those "bolt on" balconies just like some in Carnival's Fantasy class.

 

They certainly don't do anything positive for the appearance of the exterior of the ship, but selling such an "amenity" adds revenue.