Comment on Restarting Cruising

[Mary229]

5 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

Anyways, you can simply go to youtube and type NCL fight or carnival fight and you will see all kinds of outrageous guest behavior set off by the smallest thing. And security doesn't really do much. How are they going to enforce any distancing/mask regulations? What is the plan if a guest won't comply? There's only so much security force onboard a ship. Guests are the weakest part of the equation here, not the cruise lines. 

I will watch the videos later, just stopped by for a sec before work.  I can't disagree with you that people are usually the problem😉. It certainly is not the guide dogs😃.  I think the limiting of capacity will help.   I think as some in the travel industry have done lifetime bans are in order along with immediate expulsion.  I have seen people arrested on a cruise ship for disorderly behavior but that was a single individual.  I was on a HAL ship that had major issues.  Many of us recognized the issues and discussed them but we waited until our vacation was over until we embarked on the complaints to management.  Maybe it is a reflection of the older people on HAL or the type of people HAL caters to but no one saw any reason to ruin a vacation.

[LMaxwell]

On 9/22/2020 at 5:26 AM, Mary229 said:

Maybe it is a reflection of the older people on HAL or the type of people HAL caters to but no one saw any reason to ruin a vacation.

 

There is absolutely a difference in the demographics; HAL attracts more seasoned, more affluent cruisers who are likely to be a bit more logical and level headed about solving a problem.  Unfortunately, the lowlife behavior we have seen the last few years in how people interact with one another is becoming normalized and acceptable; and I have low confidence in any cruise line effectively being able to stop that. I wouldn't want to be in a contentious situation with someone who refuses to follow guidelines they had agreed to; we know that some amount will agree to anything just to get onboard and immediately ignore that and just do what they want. Anyone so discourteous to place others in that kind of situation should be banned...but it won't happen. Once the ships leave the port it will be a free for all and if YOU are following the guidelines and made uncomfortable, can not use ships services due to others not following guidelines, or are infected by others that's too bad in the cruise lines eyes. But don't expect any effective monitoring of the situation 

[iancal]

It really does not matter that the majority of cruisers on a ship are 'a bit more logical and level headed'.

 

It is always the minority, the few.  I have no doubt that there is a number of that ilk on any cruise, including the 'more seasoned, more affluent' cruisers on HAL.

 

The issue is, IMHO, as much an issue of 'entitlement' as it is 'lowlife behaviour'.  Usually a combination of both.

 

I agree. The real nub of the issue is that cruise lines well probably not be able, or not be willing, to effectively monitor adherence to the  covid safety guidelines.  That definitely includes HAL.   This is exactly why we cannot see boarding a cruise ship anytime in the future while these guidelines are in place....regardless of the logo on the funnel.

Edited October 3, 2020 by iancal

[kazu]

3 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 

There is absolutely a difference in the demographics; HAL attracts more seasoned, more affluent cruisers who are likely to be a bit more logical and level headed about solving a problem.  Unfortunately, the lowlife behavior we have seen the last few years in how people interact with one another is becoming normalized and acceptable; and I have low confidence in any cruise line effectively being able to stop that. 

 

47 minutes ago, iancal said:

I agree. The real nub of the issue is that cruise lines well probably not be able, or not be willing, to effectively monitor adherence to the  covid safety guidelines.  That definitely includes HAL.   This is exactly why we cannot see boarding a cruise ship anytime in the future while these guidelines are in place....regardless of the logo on the funnel.

 

Sorry, but I am going to disagree with you both.  I’ve seen the security people go into action on HAL.

 

That includes the guy on his Segway on the Westerdam (he was allowed to bring it onboard to use in ports and told not to use it on board - he didn’t follow the rules).  It was taken away from him.

It includes two couples who were put off in port for not following Noro rules and giving the crew a hard time on the Prinsendam.

 

It includes several people confined to their cabin on another cruise for being disruptive and subsequently disembarked at the first port.

 

And of course, we have the family on MSC that left the shore excursion against the rules recently and were put off the ship.

 

JMO - but I’ve seen them lay down the law and I think the risk is too high with Covid not to.  I suspect there will be very stern repercussions to those who choose not to follow the protocols.   

[iancal]

Cannot wait to hear how they manage social distancing with the reality of elevator usage.  Especially if one or more of the elevators are out of service.

[Lido - Lanai]

22 minutes ago, iancal said:

Cannot wait to hear how they manage social distancing with the reality of elevator usage.  Especially if one or more of the elevators are out of service.

There's always the stairways...... if one is not physically able to use the stairways then perhaps they shouldn't be cruising until the social distancing requirement is lifted.

[d9704011]

Uh oh!!

[lazey1]

13 minutes ago, Lido - Lanai said:

There's always the stairways...... if one is not physically able to use the stairways then perhaps they shouldn't be cruising until the social distancing requirement is lifted.

If the able bodied would use the stairs there would be no problem with those who are unable to use the stairs using an elevator. Being unable to use the stairs does not necessarily meant they can not walk. There are a lot of people that have hidden problems such as shortness of breath, severe back pain, severe knee pain, dizzines and so on. They are as entitled to cruising as anyone else.

[Lido - Lanai]

2 minutes ago, lazey1 said:

If the able bodied would use the stairs there would be no problem with those who are unable to use the stairs using an elevator. Being unable to use the stairs does not necessarily meant they can not walk. There are a lot of people that have hidden problems such as shortness of breath, severe back pain, severe knee pain, dizzines and so on. They are as entitled to cruising as anyone else.

My only point was until this virus is behind us, we all need to recognize our limitations before embarking on a journey that may have lots of unknowns.

[rkacruiser]

51 minutes ago, Lido - Lanai said:

we all need to recognize our limitations before embarking on a journey that may have lots of unknowns.

 

This is so true regardless of what the situation is with Covid-19!

[bennybear]

On 9/20/2020 at 6:23 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

 

The requirement of wearing a mask throughout a cruise will eliminate any possibility of me booking a cruise on any ship to anywhere.  

 

While I hope it won’t be necessary, there may be a silver lining.  Last fall I had an injury that necessitated me visiting the ship’s doctor. While there I saw at least half a dozen people coming to do nebulizer treatments for upper respiratory infections.  I also heard  people coughing severely in the theatre and the MDR, we even asked to be moved at one point.  

 

I would feel feel better if they were masked or better yet quarantined.  I once got a nasty flu on-board, stayed in my cabin even before the doctor quarantined me. My hope is that since common sense doesn’t seem too common,  masks may actually help along with hand sanitation for other situations along with isolation of those who are sick.  

 

Would be nice if the cruise crud became a thing of the past.  

Edited October 3, 2020 by bennybear

[rkacruiser]

1 minute ago, bennybear said:

My hope is that since common sense doesn’t seem too common,  masks may actually help along with hand sanitation for other situations along with isolation of those who are sick.  

 

Would be nice if the cruise crud became a thing of the past.  

 

Common sense is MIA for too many in recent years.  Masks help along with hand sanitation, etc. to help stop the spread of any diseases like Noro, Covid, whatever.  To be required to wear a mask when I am on "vacation" when I must do so when I am not?  That's "a bridge" that I hope I don't have to cross in order to decide whether to cruise again.  

 

On a brighter note--maybe--maybe this crisis will finally stop me seeing fellow "gentlemen" leaving the restroom, on a ship or wherever, without washing their hands.  

[Reagan0712]

2 hours ago, iancal said:

Cannot wait to hear how they manage social distancing with the reality of elevator usage.  Especially if one or more of the elevators are out of service.

Maybe they’ll have to revert to days of old and use crew members as elevator operators to monitor how many people may enter.

[iancal]

If social distancing is in force how many people do you think will be allowed in each elevator at any one time?  One?  Two?  Three?  More?   

 

How often will elevators be out of service for cleaning during the day or night?

Edited October 4, 2020 by iancal

[Himself]

Some of us need elevators.  I can walk down several flights of stars but going up that is a bit tough on the legs and the heart.

[Mary229]

Just now, Himself said:

Some of us need elevators.  I can walk down several flights of stars but going up that is a bit tough on the legs and the heart.

I think for 6 months or so cruising will be only for a select group of young, healthy individuals without special needs.  Perhaps that is bad news for HAL but that is a reality.   People should not be discouraged by this.  It is a rapidly evolving situation and by next year at this time we will have likely wiped it from our collective memory.

[Himself]

2 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I think for 6 months or so cruising will be only for a select group of young, healthy individuals without special needs.  Perhaps that is bad news for HAL but that is a reality.   People should not be discouraged by this.  It is a rapidly evolving situation and by next year at this time we will have likely wiped it from our collective memory.

I hope a year from now that this is just a distant memory.

[iancal]

Agree, but this is just one of the realities of social distancing on a cruise ship.  Will they do one way traffic only on the cabin floors?  On the stair wells.  All the while enforcing social distancing.  Will the casino and retail areas be reconfigured and/or will people stand outside until there is room for them to enter based on the social distancing regs?

 

  Many practical things that may be enforced on day 1.  What about by day 5, 6, etc?  

 

How did MSC handle this?

Edited October 4, 2020 by iancal

[Horizon chaser 1957]

23 hours ago, lazey1 said:

They are as entitled to cruising as anyone else.

If ANY of us were ‘entitled’ to cruising, a lot of us would be on a ship right now. 
As these past few days have demonstrated, the virus is completely unimpressed by anyone’s importance or perceived entitlements.
I understand that when cruising first resumes, it will still be a few steps away from allowing many of us, including me, to participate. When conditions improve to the point where I finally have the privilege to board a ship again, I will either comply with the necessary restrictions of the time, or stay ashore until those restrictions are lifted.

[GeorgesGal]

On 9/20/2020 at 7:26 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

So?  What is your recommendation for dining inside a restaurant?  With any degree of hopeful success of not contracting Covid-19 while I enjoy a bone-in Rib Eye Steak, medium rare, please.

My favorite restaurant for a properly cooked medium rare rib eye happens to be my kitchen for cooking it to my doneness, and sitting on my porch while dining!  Good company too.  Will start the process at seven tonight!

[iancal]

I would like to know how they plan to enforce their procedures on cruise line excursions.  Will 20 or 30 people on a cruise line sponsored shore trip be allowed off the bus or will it simply be a bus ride?

 

And if they are allowed off the bus, how on earth will the cruise line monitor them and ensure those keep safe procedures are followed by everyone during that  shore time???

 

A cruise line can hardly claim that they will observe the prescribed precautions without some explanation of how they will accomplish and monitor it.  For the safety and well being of their guests and their staff.  

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by iancal

[bennybear]

30 minutes ago, iancal said:

I would like to know how they plan to enforce their procedures on cruise line excursions.  Will 20 or 30 people on a cruise line sponsored shore trip be allowed off the bus or will it simply be a bus ride?

 

And if they are allowed off the bus, how on earth will the cruise line monitor them and ensure those keep safe procedures are followed by everyone during that  shore time???

 

A cruise line can hardly claim that they will observe the prescribed precautions without some explanation of how they will accomplish and monitor it.  For the safety and well being of their guests and their staff.  

 

 

 

 

Mein Schiff 6 a German cruise line has completed a cruise this week.   They did limit it to ship excursions and were very serious about people not wandering off.   I heard a few got sent home who wandered off.   

 

We have friends onboard who have had a lovely week and week and it is working.   I think it is posted on the Celebrity board  by Miaminice.  

 

It’s  worth a look to see how things actually work.  I for one wish I had better German, it has looked amazing.

[lazey1]

1 hour ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

If ANY of us were ‘entitled’ to cruising, a lot of us would be on a ship right now. 
As these past few days have demonstrated, the virus is completely unimpressed by anyone’s importance or perceived entitlements.
I understand that when cruising first resumes, it will still be a few steps away from allowing many of us, including me, to participate. When conditions improve to the point where I finally have the privilege to board a ship again, I will either comply with the necessary restrictions of the time, or stay ashore until those restrictions are lifted.

To clarify my comment. When cruising is resumed my ability to cruise should not be determined by whether or not I Need to use an elevator os opposed to I Want to use an elevator. 

I totally agree that the virus is completely unimpressed by anyone's importance, I do not believe that the use of an elevator is an entitlement.

And I certainly agree that when I have the privilege to board a ship again I will comply with all of the recessary restrictions and regulations.

 

[Mary229]

6 minutes ago, lazey1 said:

To clarify my comment. When cruising is resumed my ability to cruise should not be determined by whether or not I Need to use an elevator os opposed to I Want to use an elevator. 

I totally agree that the virus is completely unimpressed by anyone's importance, I do not believe that the use of an elevator is an entitlement.

And I certainly agree that when I have the privilege to board a ship again I will comply with all of the recessary restrictions and regulations.

 

To be clear if you are told there would be no elevator you would be ok with that?   I do think all of the US lines could be doing a better job of describing all new procedures.   Whether the elevators are available to none or some is an excellent question to pose to the lines.   

[lazey1]

6 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

To be clear if you are told there would be no elevator you would be ok with that?   I do think all of the US lines could be doing a better job of describing all new procedures.   Whether the elevators are available to none or some is an excellent question to pose to the lines.   

 

No, I could not cruise if elevators were not available to me. The answer is could not, believe me I wish that I could climb stairs and still breathe.