Success with refunds ( not vouchers) from airlines

[son3cruisers]

Looking for advice here.

Our March 2020 cruise was cancelled and we were  able to cancel our return flights .Unfortunately we only received travel credit that needed to used in one year.  I optimistically booked another cruise for March 2021 and used the credit we received right away to book a new flight in 2021. The flight is a one way flight, San Juan to Toronto. 

Fast forward to Aug. 
 The airline I booked with ( Airtransat- a Canadian airline) seemed to have just cancelled the flight altogether and sent new vouchers to me in email. No explanation. Just these vouchers, in US funds that arrived in email. These vouchers don’t expire. Weird. I log on to the website and notice that this airline is no longer serving flights from San Juan to Toronto. So, I call them . I want a refund. There is no other time or day as there is no flights offered to Toronto from San Juan. I actually don’t think this airline will survive this pandemic, they are in great financial trouble so I predict these vouchers are not going to be worth a thing when we are actually able to travel. They refused a refund.  I stated that because this flight departs a US city, my bill was in US funds so DOT rules apply, and I am entitled to receive a refund. ( someone on here posted that valuable info) They refuse again and said I booked in Canada so DOT does not apply ( I think this in incorrect) and “ It’s an act of a God and out of their control” . How can an act of God be 7 months away ? I wrote an email to their customer relations , so I have their refusal in writing and made a claim with CTA. 
Any advice? Anyone have any luck with this similar scenario? Am I stuck with these vouchers? 
Thanks in advance. 

[mchell810]

DOT rules DO apply for any flight that was scheduled to depart or land in the US; San Juan, PR is part of the US. However, you may have trouble because this newly cancelled flight was purchased with vouchers recieved for a flight you cancelled.  It seems to me that would be the basis for the airline to only issue a credit.  Considering that Air Canada has been refusing refunds (as reported on several boards) my guess is you would be hard pressed to get this smaller airline to give you a refund. You may want to try a charge-back with your credit card company.

 

Just and FYI: I was able to get full refunds from American Airlines when they cancelled my flights, it was no problem and they were very quick about it.  Of course, I waited for them to cancel otherwise I would have had to take the voucher.

[Texed]

We received a complete refund this morning from B.A.  It took about 6 weeks.  😊

[ABoatNerd]

Hi OP. I have posted on this board my fight with Air Canada for a refund.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/air-canada-racks-up-second-most-refund-complaints-in-the-us-in-may/ar-BB18jLpZ

 

First, Canadian airlines are the worst in the world for refunds. This is enabled by the toothless Canadian Transport Agency who allows the airlines to withhold refunds as implied in their March press release - however, they had to walk that back in June when they were severely questioned in a House of Commons session..

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/are-canadian-travellers-entitled-to-refunds-on-cancelled-flights-1.5000754

 

Second, DOT applies to your flight - despite Air Transat lying to you. AC cancelled (their weasel words were "could not operate as planned", yeah right) my flight from Ottawa to NYC. Any Canadian airline operating in or out of the USA is subject to USA law.

 

In fact, the DOT has processed my complaint about AC and DOT has sent their pro customer decision to AC and is allowing AC 60 days to respond to the DOT about why I am not entitled to a refund. I have a case # and excellent background information from the DOT (took them 32 days, pretty good considering the situation). Thanks DOT!

 

I also launched a credit card dispute with Master Card (Bank of Montreal), it took a while and my file was in the hands of a nasty and incompetent person. So I simply went up the despite food chain at the BMO which is clearly shown on the BMO site  - step 2 was to a SVP, and I provided all my paperwork from AC, the USA laws, the DOT submission and I immediately received my $ refund back to my card. The credit card dispute says AC has 60 days to respond.

 

So at this point, despicable AC, has 2 formal complaints against them from the USA government and a credit card company.

 

For flights out of the EU, my Air Transat Paris to Toronto flight was cancelled by Air Transat and I received a refund on my credit card fairly quickly with no effort on my part.

 

Therefore,  flights in the USA and EU are much more consumer friendly than the garbage operating method in Canada.

____________________

OP, because you cancelled, I am a bit concerned that you might not be successful.  Please get the customer cancellation policy with AT applicable at the time - this is very important.

 

And remember, Never Give Up and Never Give In!   I live my life this way.

 

Hope this is of assistance to you OP and others who are reading this.

 

 

[wrk2cruise]

I think you will still have an issue with the fact that a voucher is used.   Most refunds are made to the "initial form of payment" which in this case was a voucher.   Actually I'm surprised they issued a voucher without an expiry.

[diesel1973]

We were scheduled to go to eastern Europe in August via Lufthansa air. 3 days after cancelled scheduled flight we got 100% refund on our CC.

[gerelmx]

AA not giving cash back only credit with 1 year expiration from purchase date



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[npcl]

3 hours ago, gerelmx said:

AA not giving cash back only credit with 1 year expiration from purchase date



Sent from my iPhone using Forums

had no problem getting a cash refund from AA for a flight they cancelled.

 

If a passenger cancels when the flight is still scheduled then the passenger will get a voucher.

[gerelmx]

22 minutes ago, npcl said:

had no problem getting a cash refund from AA for a flight they cancelled.

 

If a passenger cancels when the flight is still scheduled then the passenger will get a voucher.

 

The most probable thing and what is happening is that the passengers are canceling, if AA cancels it does so until the last minute, not with the anticipation with what we do.

[npcl]

49 minutes ago, gerelmx said:

 

The most probable thing and what is happening is that the passengers are canceling, if AA cancels it does so until the last minute, not with the anticipation with what we do.

that is why you do not cancel until the last minute.  All of the flights I had pre covid were canceled by the airlines at least 48 hours before the flight. Some months esrlier.

[Gmell]

For what it’s worth... I canceled our Air Canada flights back in March when this all began as our sailing was canceled. I chose to take the small refund offered by AC rather than the voucher. The balance I submitted to my trip cancelation insurance and was reimbursed the full amount (except the $150 refund from AC). Total cost of flights were $2,000’ish. May be something for you to investigate, although your situation is a bit different with accepting the original voucher, but a question you could ask, that is if you had the trip insured. Good luck.




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[DUTRAVEL]

We are also waiting for a refund from Air Canada for a flight from Vancouver to San Francisco in May. Air Canada has refused to provide a refund for a flight they canceled. We are waiting for the DOT to respond to our complaint. Hopefully, the DOT is planning on some kind of enforcement proceedings against Air Canada. 

 

We also had a flight from San Francisco to Honolulu that was canceled. Alaska Airlines immediately refunded our money.

 

 

[CruisinNole]

2 hours ago, npcl said:

had no problem getting a cash refund from AA for a flight they cancelled.

 

If a passenger cancels when the flight is still scheduled then the passenger will get a voucher.

We cancelled a reservation on AA for an early July flight and received a voucher. We were not given a choice between a voucher or refund.  Shortly afterwards, we watched a Zoom presentation from Consumer Reports about their efforts to force airlines to give consumers refunds rather than vouchers. CR's recommendation was to request a refund even if you'd received a voucher. After much searching on the AA website, we found where we could ask for a refund. A week later, we received an email telling us that we would receive a refund. It showed up on our credit card about 3 days later.

Edited September 21, 2020 by CruisinNole

[BEAV]

6 hours ago, gerelmx said:

AA not giving cash back only credit with 1 year expiration from purchase date

 

This is NOT the case when the airline cancels and/or drastically alters the flight(s). Just today friends holding AA tickets for next month were given a refund due to schedule changes that dramatically altered the itinerary (added connection + excessively long layers). This is the DOT rules in action. 

[mchell810]

7 hours ago, gerelmx said:

 

The most probable thing and what is happening is that the passengers are canceling, if AA cancels it does so until the last minute, not with the anticipation with what we do.

 

You really just need to keep checking your flights; as noted above airline cancellation or substantial change entitles you to a refund.  In June AA cancelled my October flights to Australia (actually  transferred them to Qantas flights).  I immediately contacted American for a refund and had it back on my card in less than a week.

[Ashland]

I also had a similar situation with AA. My May 2020 RCI cruise was cancelled by them. AA made a substantial change 

to our flight and was credited very quickly for the 10 roundtrip tickets I had purchased for my extended family.

[FlyerTalker]

All these posts point out that the devil remains in the details.

 

If the passenger cancels the flight, then the usual policy is to issue a credit.

If the airline cancels the flight, then the airline will try to issue a credit, but will usually refund in cash if pressed.

 

Who cancels is the big factor.

 

As noted, Air Canada is one of the worst for refunds.  Lufthansa and LH Group airlines are close behind.

[bennybear]

Canada does have poor laws in this regard.   The group on Facebook Air passenger rights in Canada by Dr Gabor Lukacs has helped many get their money back.   He has templates for dealing with chargebacks and Info re dealing with DOT or European airlines.  A very helpful group. 

[SelectSys]

On 9/20/2020 at 4:12 PM, son3cruisers said:

...
 The airline I booked with ( Airtransat- a Canadian airline) seemed to have just cancelled the flight...I stated that because this flight departs a US city, my bill was in US funds so DOT rules apply, and I am entitled to receive a refund...

 

Bummer to the OP.  I now know why I got a refund for a cancelled Norwegian flight in March - DOT rules mandated it.  Of all the COVID travel related refunds I received related to COVID 19, that was the one that I thought was most at risk. 

[son3cruisers]

On 9/21/2020 at 8:39 AM, ABoatNerd said:

Hi OP. I have posted on this board my fight with Air Canada for a refund.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/air-canada-racks-up-second-most-refund-complaints-in-the-us-in-may/ar-BB18jLpZ

 

First, Canadian airlines are the worst in the world for refunds. This is enabled by the toothless Canadian Transport Agency who allows the airlines to withhold refunds as implied in their March press release - however, they had to walk that back in June when they were severely questioned in a House of Commons session..

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/are-canadian-travellers-entitled-to-refunds-on-cancelled-flights-1.5000754

 

Second, DOT applies to your flight - despite Air Transat lying to you. AC cancelled (their weasel words were "could not operate as planned", yeah right) my flight from Ottawa to NYC. Any Canadian airline operating in or out of the USA is subject to USA law.

 

In fact, the DOT has processed my complaint about AC and DOT has sent their pro customer decision to AC and is allowing AC 60 days to respond to the DOT about why I am not entitled to a refund. I have a case # and excellent background information from the DOT (took them 32 days, pretty good considering the situation). Thanks DOT!

 

I also launched a credit card dispute with Master Card (Bank of Montreal), it took a while and my file was in the hands of a nasty and incompetent person. So I simply went up the despite food chain at the BMO which is clearly shown on the BMO site  - step 2 was to a SVP, and I provided all my paperwork from AC, the USA laws, the DOT submission and I immediately received my $ refund back to my card. The credit card dispute says AC has 60 days to respond.

 

So at this point, despicable AC, has 2 formal complaints against them from the USA government and a credit card company.

 

For flights out of the EU, my Air Transat Paris to Toronto flight was cancelled by Air Transat and I received a refund on my credit card fairly quickly with no effort on my part.

 

Therefore,  flights in the USA and EU are much more consumer friendly than the garbage operating method in Canada.

____________________

OP, because you cancelled, I am a bit concerned that you might not be successful.  Please get the customer cancellation policy with AT applicable at the time - this is very important.

 

And remember, Never Give Up and Never Give In!   I live my life this way.

 

Hope this is of assistance to you OP and others who are reading this.

 

 

Thank you every one for the great advice and feedback. 

Just to be clear, I actually didn’t cancel the first time. The flight was March 22 , 2020 and all flights were cancelled by the airlines. I was able to call right away when it happened, I called on March 15th . ( waited on hold over 3 hrs) There was so much unknown and I knew if I didn’t call I might lose everything all together. Back in March there wasn’t any refunds being offered to anyone - things have evolved greatly since then. Like I said, I just took the credit that was offered and booked a new flight for 2021.
Also, it sounds like most US customers are getting the refunds, or at least US airline companies.
It also sounds like I need to file a complaint with DOT. I went the Canadian route and filed a complaint ( and received a Case #) with CTA.
I already tried with my credit card company, but they only go back 9 months. I booked this flight in 2019 when it was first released. I already filed an insurance claim for other travel expenses ( that I was reimbursed for) so not sure if I can file yet another claim for the same trip. 
And an act of God? That was really ridiculous. 
 Yes, for the first cancellation, but not for a cancellation 7 months in the future! There are still flights being offered to san jan as well. Just not to Toronto. 
 

 

[son3cruisers]

12 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

All these posts point out that the devil remains in the details.

 

If the passenger cancels the flight, then the usual policy is to issue a credit.

If the airline cancels the flight, then the airline will try to issue a credit, but will usually refund in cash if pressed.

 

Who cancels is the big factor.

 

As noted, Air Canada is one of the worst for refunds.  Lufthansa and LH Group airlines are close behind.

Yes, and it gets trickier with 2 cancelations and with Covid 19.  
The Airline cancelled both times.

First was the huge wave of Covid 19 cancellationS on March 13th . The flight was a return flight departing SAN Juan - after our cruise- March 22 ( I did call them though as I wanted to receive something! I got travel credit that expired in one year so I booked right away for 2021) 
The second cancellation was the “ act of God” which apparently will happen in March 2021. 😂 . 
I went ahead tonight and filed a complaint with DOT. So that’s 2 complaints filed. One in Canada ( which I’m sure now reading everyone’s comments will be useless) and one in the US. Hopefully my money will be refunded. I’ll update when I hear. 

[son3cruisers]

On 9/21/2020 at 5:26 PM, BEAV said:

 

This is NOT the case when the airline cancels and/or drastically alters the flight(s). Just today friends holding AA tickets for next month were given a refund due to schedule changes that dramatically altered the itinerary (added connection + excessively long layers). This is the DOT rules in action. 

This should apply to my cancelled flight as well!! 

[ABoatNerd]

son3cruisers - good you did the DOT complaint.

 

There is the potential for a US enforcement action against AC which could mean a refund in the future - if you are not registered you can not potentially win.

 

I do not buy your credit card excuse of 9 months - basically the supplier did not supply = refund.

 

Please go higher in your bank - this is necessary and appropriate so that senior levels learn what is going on. I would also in your complaint include some links to media articles (I provided some earlier) - this means you potentially would go to the media which is a scary item for banks!!!!!!!  

 

Keep us all informed.

 

Regards!

[bennybear]

If you check the air passenger rights group, they will help.   CTA is useless,  you do need to pursue a chargeback as you did not get what you paid for.  

[ABoatNerd]

bennybear - right on.

 

As I said, ignore the low level clerks in the credit card dispute group, if they say no, got up the advertised dispute resolution food chain at the OP's bank. I did, it worked.

 

It is amazing the difference between the utterly useless CTA in Canada and the forthright active DOT in the USA.  Hope the DOT takes action against air canada and bans them from American air space, would be the minimum punishment for the most arrogant and anti consumer airline out there, I would hoist a glass to that move.

 

I certainly will be avoiding air canada for the future.  Canada has limited air travel choice, but our household is now more likely to drive to Buffalo and take US flights to where we want to go.