Government of Canada announces one-year ban for pleasure craft and cruise vessels

[d9704011]

6 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

Except Russia has strict and complex visa requirements not to mention it is a few thousand miles away from Seattle.  It would end up having to be a month long cruise which of course is outside the CDC 7 day limit.

You’re not playing fair!  If we can suspend reality and credulity for many of the suggestions being made, existing visa requirements can be overcome at the wave of a wand too.

[sfaaa]

16 hours ago, leerathje said:

 

There are MANY Canadians that are thrilled KXL is cancelled. 

Give your head a shake!

 

Uninformed comments and attitude like this is why I left CC last spring!

 

L.

 

You must have a short memory. You do know during the last recession, it was Alberta oil that generated millions in federal tax revenues and provided years of well paying jobs to Canadians when central and eastern Canada were in the dump. And it will be Alberta oil that will save Canada in the next energy crisis when Middle East heats up again.

[T8NCruise]

I'm sure it's nothing to do with a pandemic, health and safety, avoiding more deaths, waiting for everyone to be vaccinated, etc.  The Govt of Canada simply decided to make all cruisers and the cruise industry miserable, just because.
Such entitlement.  Give your heads a shake and be thankful you are still able to complain on and on about missing cruises.  400K+ in the US alone would love to be alive to do so.

[Cruzaholic41]

Those of you trying to make this a Canada vs US thing need to grow up. 

[Mary229]

I have to assume part of the reason is Canada has a larger percentage of first nation's peoples.  As here in the US, I am sure that population has been severely impacted by this disease.  Speculation is that they do not have robust immune response to influenza/coronavirus illnesses that those of Euro and Asian ancestry have developed over the generations.  Their country, their rules.  It does seem extreme to me but their bureaucrats will have to deal with the outrage, if any, from their own citizenry.  

[kevingastreich]

11 minutes ago, T8NCruise said:

Such entitlement.  Give your heads a shake and be thankful you are still able to complain on and on about missing cruises.  400K+ in the US alone would love to be alive to do so.

If you are trying to make me feel guilty because I'm still alive...you failed.

[NMTraveller]

I wonder when HAL will cancel the Alaska cruises?

[Mary229]

8 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

I wonder when HAL will cancel the Alaska cruises?

They indicate on the website that they are seeking legal redress.  They don't indicate exactly what that is.

[taxmantoo]

16 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

They indicate on the website that they are seeking legal redress.  They don't indicate exactly what that is.

Another term for "We don't know what the f... to do now" 😉

[HAL4NOW]

6 hours ago, LocoLoco1 said:

One post somewhere said this: “I’m getting tired of Cruiselines taking $Deposits$ for cruises that they know will never sail. Worse than ‘Bait n Switch’. She offered a good point...

Ideally, HAL would offer the same itinerary at the same price with the same perks, when they have to cancel. It feels like each re-booking is for a higher price and we lose perks unless they appear magically on some special sale.

[kazu]

Well, it’s not just Canada with trepidation on cruises, folks.

 

There’s a new thread on the boards and FLORIDA does not know about restarting cruises until next year.  the link that was posted by CJCruzer on the boards -    https://www.porthole.com/significant-cruise-operations-doubtful-this-year-says-florida-ports-council/

 

And here is the thread - 

Everyone is doing what they have to right now.  If vaccinations move up and people mask up and follow the rules to prevent spread they might all be rescinded.  Only time will tell.

[ShipsAreTheBest]

4 hours ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

San Diego, Ensenada, Santa Barbara, Seattle, skip Vancouver, end in Alaska, add a land tour.

If the cruise part could be squeezed into the CDC’s seven day limitation, it could be a very attractive itinerary.
A waiver is the more practical solution, though. Maybe Alaska can lobby the right people. 

That won’t work.  To go from one US port and end in another, you have to stop in a “distant foreign port”.  Ensenada does not qualify.  The only legal trips, are round trip, stopping in at least one foreign port or a one way originating in a US port and ending in a non-US port or vice-versa.  Waiver (if they would grant) is the only solution. 

[ShipWalker]

Just for the sake of discussion...let's say a cruise ship leaves Seattle and stops at the Makah Indian Reservation at Neah Bay in northwest Washington on the Straight of Juan de Fuca (tender only.) Could the tribe potentially claim their tribal sovereignty allows them to be considered a foreign port?

[YXU AC*SE]

7 hours ago, Mary229 said:

... this Canadian body may not have complete authority to create these policies.

 

Alas, the order came from the Minister of Transport himself (aka 'Omar' as he has been previously referred to) via his authority under the Canada Shipping Act. It's pretty final.    Scott.   

Edited February 5, 2021 by YXU AC*SE

[Mary229]

4 minutes ago, YXU AC*SE said:

 

Alas, the order came from the Minister of Transport himself (aka 'Omar' as he has been previously referred to) via his authority under the Canada Shipping Act. It's pretty final.    Scott.   

I guess that might be the final in Canada.  Here our Congress and executive branch do actually have overriding oversight though they seem paralyzed 

[kazu]

1 hour ago, ShipWalker said:

Just for the sake of discussion...let's say a cruise ship leaves Seattle and stops at the Makah Indian Reservation at Neah Bay in northwest Washington on the Straight of Juan de Fuca (tender only.) Could the tribe potentially claim their tribal sovereignty allows them to be considered a foreign port?

 

I hope no cruise ship even dreams of stopping there.  The Aboriginals or Native Indians are very susceptible to covid.  We’ve been vaccinating them first here for that very reason.  Covid has taken a toll on them quickly.

 

[kazu]

5 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I guess that might be the final in Canada.  Here our Congress and executive branch do actually have overriding oversight though they seem paralyzed 

 

 

The Minister of Transport would not have made this order without talking to the scientists and the Prime Minister and the hierarchy there.

One thing to point out in the order again is that it can be rescinded if things improve.  All they are doing is giving fair notice under the current conditions.  It matches the barring of flights to certain countries that has taken place here.

[YXU AC*SE]

8 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Here our Congress and executive branch do actually have overriding oversight though they seem paralyzed 

 

We of course are a bit different here.   'Executive authority' is exercised in the name of HM the Queen, by her Governor-in-Council, which is cabinet, which is comprised of Ministers of the Crown, who themselves are elevated Members of Parliament (aka House of Representatives)  ...     so yeah, it's final, until the Minister (Omar) decides otherwise.  The upside to the order, is it gives the industry some certainty.   Scott. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by YXU AC*SE

[NMTraveller]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

They indicate on the website that they are seeking legal redress.  They don't indicate exactly what that is.

Well the cruise I had booked had a 3 hour port time.  If the Canadians would allow us they could set up vending machines in port for a brief stop not mingling with the Canadians.  

 

The Canadians would get their port fees and some tourism dollars plus the stop would satify the rules for cruises.  It probably could be a 2 hour port stop.

 

Of course I would expect HAL and the other lines are probably seeing if Congress will modify the rules in the short term to bypass Canada.

 

The surprise here is that this was my backup plan.  A 2nd cruise booked in case the first one did not go.  Now I am hoping for the first to go.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by NMTraveller

[Aquahound]

2 hours ago, ShipWalker said:

Just for the sake of discussion...let's say a cruise ship leaves Seattle and stops at the Makah Indian Reservation at Neah Bay in northwest Washington on the Straight of Juan de Fuca (tender only.) Could the tribe potentially claim their tribal sovereignty allows them to be considered a foreign port?

 

No, that won't work. It's not a foreign port.  It is still part of the US, and the US still has federal jurisdiction on tribal land.

 

Interesting fact related to that....The US Coast Guard has a station on Makkah land in Neah Bay.  

[YXU AC*SE]

3 hours ago, Mary229 said:

They indicate on the website that they are seeking legal redress. 

I think the quote actually is: 

"We will be consulting authorities in both the U.S. and Canada before we take any additional action."

 

Closing line is:

"While this is beyond our control, we remain committed to operating any portion of our Alaska season and we are hopeful that positive progress relative to the pandemic accelerates to the point that the Canadian Transport Minister will rescind the interim order and allow cruise vacations to resume in 2021."  

 

...   neither of which really read,  'we'll see you in court, buddy'.   🙂    YMMV though.    Scott. 

 

source: https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/news/2021-press-releases1/news-02042021-AlaskaCanadaRestrictions.html

[Mary229]

Just now, YXU AC*SE said:

I think the quote actually is: 

"We will be consulting authorities in both the U.S. and Canada before we take any additional action."

 

Closing line is:

"While this is beyond our control, we remain committed to operating any portion of our Alaska season and we are hopeful that positive progress relative to the pandemic accelerates to the point that the Canadian Transport Minister will rescind the interim order and allow cruise vacations to resume in 2021."  

 

...   neither of which really read,  'we'll see you in court, buddy'.   🙂    YMMV though.    Scott. 

 

source: https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/news/2021-press-releases1/news-02042021-AlaskaCanadaRestrictions.html

I don’t think they are going to court but they likely will be stepping up political pressure.  Where depends on where they identify the most weakness.  

[Shmoo here]

6 hours ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

San Diego, Ensenada, Santa Barbara, Seattle, skip Vancouver, end in Alaska, add a land tour.

Such a cruise would not be legal under the PVSA.  A foreign flagged ship cannot transport passengers from one US port to a different US port (as in your example - embark in San Diego, debark in Alaska) without a stop in a DISTANT foreign port.

 

A distant foreign port is described as any port NOT "in North America, Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or the West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao)". 

[YXU AC*SE]

@Mary229  It's not like there aren't significant table stakes for Canada? ~29k shoreside direct and indirect jobs, plus 4.5B$ (CAD) annual visitor travel and tourism lift.  And given that the order has been continuously in effect since 04 April 2020, I'm not sure how much political pressure can be brought to bear that will yield an industry-beneficial result ?    Scott.  

[kevingastreich]

2 hours ago, ShipWalker said:

Just for the sake of discussion...let's say a cruise ship leaves Seattle and stops at the Makah Indian Reservation at Neah Bay in northwest Washington on the Straight of Juan de Fuca (tender only.) Could the tribe potentially claim their tribal sovereignty allows them to be considered a foreign port?

Now this is the type of thinking we need right now.  Well done!