No more cruises with NCL. Mandatory Vaccines?

[Georgia_Peaches]

7 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

I found this article to be very interesting. The CDC cannot require people to get the vaccines because they were only approved for emergency use. Thus, it appears that requiring employees to get the vaccine would violate federal law. Cruise ship passengers aren't employees of the cruise line, of course, but it might make for some interesting outcomes if cruise lines doing business in the US are requiring guests to receive a vaccine that hasn't been approved for regular use just yet.

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/23/federal-law-prohibits-employers-and-others-from-requiring-vaccination-with-a-covid-19-vaccine-distributed-under-an-eua/

 

Yes, this is actually one of the problems I have with the vaccine requirement.  I am not an anit-vaxer at all but I do appreciate FDA approval of those drugs and vaccines that have gone through the proper trials as well as FDA approval process.  It seems a lot of companies requiring the vaccine are unaware of the Emergency Use clause.  Further, I am not yet willing to put my fate in the hands of a vaccine manufacturer who has no liability if something bad should happen as a result of my receiving the injection.  And sadly, bad things have happened.  Between a lack of 3rd round clinical trials, release of any liability on the part of the companies producing the vaccine, and lack of FDA approval, I'm content to sit this out and just see what happens.  

[vswan]

Just a comment on natural immunity. An 83 year old generally healthy family member had what is assumed to be covid at the very start of the epidemic. Ended up at the dr twice, had negative tests for flu and strep. Of course there were very few covid tests available at the time and he was not given one. He did have all of the classic symptoms - including extreme fatigue and loss of taste and smell - and he was in living in an area that had a covid outbreak at the time. He had a long recovery and six months later decided to go and get an antibody test. He still hadn't recovered his sense of taste and smell, but the antibody test came back negative. So either he never had covid in the first place or his immunity was gone in six months.

 

My son was in a similar situation. Spread through his workplace after a co-worker went to a hotspot for a funeral. Many came down with the classic symptoms but no testing was available. A second round came through and some of the workers had a second round. My son was sent home to quarantine and never tested positive the second round, but did get some of the symptoms.

 

So the length of natural immunity varies from person to person. No one knows how long it will last and how it will work on new variants at this point.

[graphicguy]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

This is what it looks like when you pull up an ignored user. You can choose to ignore the person in all 4 categories or just the ones you want to.

• Posts
• Messages
• Mentions
• Signature
•  

I did that several pages ago.  I have danced few in my IGNORE LIST, but just added one more.  The ones who are there are silly, ignorant, wrong and not credible.  So, it takes a bit to make my list. 

[mjkacmom]

23 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

Again no real surprise imo. Most of them are brainwashed Sheeple plugged into mainstream media soaking up everything it puts out and believing it.   They are largely totally ignorant of the true facts about both the virus and the vaccines

 

24 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

25 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

Good for you.  Each to their own.  We have to make our own risk assessments and make our own personal decisions and respect those of everyone else.

 

Good job respecting others and their choices...

[debnjoe1438]

On 4/6/2021 at 8:39 AM, dshefter said:

Why? Get a vaccine. It's not horrible. 

Well for some, it's more about the needle than the vaccine. 😞

 

[BermudaBound2014]

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I found this article to be very interesting. The CDC cannot require people to get the vaccines because they were only approved for emergency use. 

 

Yes, the whole “emergency use” status is interesting. . There is also talk that no government agency can mandate an emergency use vaccine not just the cdc. BTW- I’ve read estimates up to 10 years to get a vaccine fully approved (not EUC). You may like this link: https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation

 

 

PS- to those that felt the need announced they were going to ignore knowthescore, I might suggest you’re better than that. I’m an active participant in multiple message boards and have very rarely blocked anyone and would never dream to announce it regardless how ridiculous. Not only is it unnecessary to announce, it’s also mean. We need to figure out a way to have difficult conversations without getting personal.

 

On another note: most rational people recognize that covid information is in a state of continual change. As we learn we evolve and change. Acknowledging things are changing daily as we learn more about C19 requires acknowledging that any opposing view held at this moment just might be proven correct in the long run; even if those odds are low.
 

I suggest we all keep an open mind because we remain in unchartered territory. 

[cruisin07family]

On 4/11/2021 at 7:41 PM, mjkacmom said:

I was at a party last night (outside), a gathering inside the night before, everyone seems to introduce themselves either vaccinated or covid’d. Cases have been super high since the beginning, but now it’s been pretty great getting back to in person interactions due to vaccinations (👍) or infections (😭). I know very few people without immunity.

 

I am so glad not to be a part of such a community.  Maybe the unvaccinated should be forced to wear a U on our forehead....

[florida eagle]

15 minutes ago, tallnthensome said:

Say many who are 300 pounds with a body mass index of 900 with a cigarette hanging  from their lip sipping Jack Daniel's with four cheeseburgers on their plate in front of them. "I don't know what that vaccine will do long term to my body." 🙄

I did not even consider that. Unfortunately cruising can have some out of shape people. This adds another issue to the cruise industry. 

[jonbgd]

does anyone remember as kids eating a sugar cube to get vaccinated for polio

imagine a vaccine that saved the world

[hallux]

4 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I found this article to be very interesting. The CDC cannot require people to get the vaccines because they were only approved for emergency use. Thus, it appears that requiring employees to get the vaccine would violate federal law. Cruise ship passengers aren't employees of the cruise line, of course, but it might make for some interesting outcomes if cruise lines doing business in the US are requiring guests to receive a vaccine that hasn't been approved for regular use just yet.

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/23/federal-law-prohibits-employers-and-others-from-requiring-vaccination-with-a-covid-19-vaccine-distributed-under-an-eua/

 

 

3 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

I have to conclude from DCGuy's link that the entire notion of mandating vaccinations is totally bogus given the vaccines have no FDA approval and only have Emergency Usage Authority.   Even if federal law only applies to employees of companies that means cruise lines can not mandate that crew are vaccinated.

Except that there's one glaring issue you're overlooking.  The ship employees are not employed under US regulations.  If they were, they'd be paying US taxes.

[Georgia_Peaches]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

PS- to those that felt the need announced they were going to ignore knowthescore, I might suggest you’re better than that. I’m an active participant in multiple message boards and have very rarely blocked anyone and would never dream to announce it regardless how ridiculous. Not only is it unnecessary to announce, it’s also mean. We need to figure out a way to have difficult conversations without getting personal.

Well said!  I truly believe that @knowthescore has his heart in the right place in trying to share his knowledge.  Knowledge is power and I just don't think one can have enough of it as it relates to the covid vaccine.  I applaud you encouraging inclusive view points and mutual respect for others.

[Georgia_Peaches]

19 minutes ago, jonbgd said:

does anyone remember as kids eating a sugar cube to get vaccinated for polio

imagine a vaccine that saved the world

Am I dating myself if I admit that I remember that?

[Georgia_Peaches]

3 minutes ago, hallux said:

 

Except that there's one glaring issue you're overlooking.  The ship employees are not employed under US regulations.  If they were, they'd be paying US taxes.

Yes, this is a very good point.

[jonbgd]

18 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Am I dating myself if I admit that I remember that?

No Ma'am

I think your probably still 39 on your next bday😉
As kids we had to get vaccines and it did good things

[jonbgd]

3 hours ago, graphicguy said:

I did that several pages ago.  I have danced few in my IGNORE LIST, but just added one more.  The ones who are there are silly, ignorant, wrong and not credible.  So, it takes a bit to make my list. 

Did I get ignored again🤣

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, jonbgd said:

does anyone remember as kids eating a sugar cube to get vaccinated for polio

imagine a vaccine that saved the world

I can! 😉

[dumbth]

The close run war for US independence could be considered won by mass innoculation of US troops. Benedict Arnold and Benjamin Franklin advocated it due to rampaging smallpox and George Washington secretly ordered the controversial measure even tho it sickened troops for a month and killed some. It was very successful in an age when the majority of war fatalities were due to disease rather than combat.

[kristi195]

10 hours ago, Sthrngary said:

After a while, on social media, when someone is simply wasting your time.  You have an option. Ignore them.  Shame it has to come to that but some folks have to write books one a site that is about enjoying cruising.  

Yes I am weary of reading the long diatribes by one particular poster.. I just skim over them as they are very boring and also very condescending.. I do not want those kinds of people in my life, in real life and on boards.. I can see why he wants to be at a table with a crowd and feels forced to only have dinner with his wife. He obviously wants an audience.. Yes one of those kinds who needs to monopolize the table lol.. Happy cruising all! I am vaccinated and cannot wait to cruise!

[Georgia_Peaches]

10 minutes ago, Sthrngary said:

I asked, how do I handle this type of situation.  He said, "You don't, you "ignore" them.  That is what they fear most.  No engagement." 

Trolling certainly has a negative connotation but in this case, it is my opinion that the person in question is trying to inform.  But as you said, if one doesn't want the information they can always ignore the person or if they are REALLY offended by the content, bypass the thread completely.  

[harkinmr]

2 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Trolling certainly has a negative connotation but in this case, it is my opinion that the person in question is trying to inform.  But as you said, if one doesn't want the information they can always ignore the person or if they are REALLY offended by the content, bypass the thread completely.  

People don’t “inform” with blatant misinformation.  As the saying goes: everyone has a right to their own opinion but not to their own facts.  

[Georgia_Peaches]

3 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

People don’t “inform” with blatant misinformation.  As the saying goes: everyone has a right to their own opinion but not to their own facts.  

Many facts have been accurately presented.

[harkinmr]

2 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Many facts have been accurately presented.

The vast majority have not been accurate. 

[Georgia_Peaches]

2 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

The vast majority have not been accurate. 

I guess it really just depends on which sources one trusts as presenting the facts.  It's why everyone should do their own research.  At the end of the day, people need to do what's right for them.  

[harkinmr]

12 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

I guess it really just depends on which sources one trusts as presenting the facts.  It's why everyone should do their own research.  At the end of the day, people need to do what's right for them.  

Nope. Facts are facts. Spin is not facts. And there is no such thing as “alternative facts” as has been ridiculously proposed by certain people. People need to do what’s right for others as well.  That’s our obligation as caring humans and as citizens. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by harkinmr

[DCGuy64]

I would put myself down as someone who likes to know facts and not spin, on the condition that those who provide facts do so with some context. There's a difference between a lie and an incomplete truth.

For instance, it might be true that the US had over 2 million cases of Covid-19, but if 99% of those people survived, that's kind of important information. Similar to how people continually remind us that the vaccines currently in use don't 100% protect you from getting Covid again. Yes, but if you say that without the caveat that a) it's very unlikely in the first place and b) you'd have a mild case of it, then I frankly think it's dishonest to mislead people like that without fully explaining yourself. It's not a black/white case of people using facts or not using facts. It's which facts, and what the person is trying to prove and/or convince others to believe. That's my take on it.