Desantis Says Cruise Lines Cannot Require Any Proof of Vaccine for Cruises out of Florida

[JMARINER]

23 hours ago, SWFLAOK said:

Yes, as I said, that's a yellow card. It's not a passport. It's not associated with the government in any way. I'm in favor of making Covid vaccine similar to the yellow card for countries that require it.

For all of those other recommendations, there are no cards or passports to document them. Recommendations from CDC and WHO with no way to provide documentation of them, as everything else you've listed, are totally worthless as requirements for traveling. It's up to the traveler without any documentation needed. I can say that if I need all of those vaccines to safely visit South Africa, there's no chance I will ever go there. Is there a human vaccine for rabies? Rabies shots for humans are only given if you've been bitten by an animal that can't be confirmed to not have it.

While it is not required by the US, the Certificate of Yellow Fever vaccination  is associated  with the Governments of other Countries as a requirement for entry. Where is really comes into question is traveling/transiting from certain Countries that  have endemic Yellow fever, like Brazil into Countries that require the Certificate. When this is an issue the ship will usually not let you board without the Certificate.   Here is a list of all the Countries and their requirements.

 

 

Link

 

J

[SWFLAOK]

We needed the yellow fever vaccine for our Silversea cruise to Brazil in November of 2018. To get our Visa, in April of that year, we had to pay 350 dollars each to receive the vaccine since the US version of the vaccine was unavailable due to a supply shortage, and only the European version was available through a few expensive doctor's office who specialized in international travel vaccinations. They checked temps back then since no one who was currently sick was allowed into the office. We had to travel 90 minutes each way to get it.

But we had our yellow fever cards, and they were needed to board our cruise in Barbados. Once in Brazil, the locals told us that there was no yellow fever along the Amazon (which is where we went), but only along the coast of Brazil south of the Amazon. 

We still have our yellow fever cards locked up in our fire proof safe since we were told that if we lost it, we would need to have another shot, even though the one we had was good for the rest of our life at our age. But at this point, I don't expect to go to any country that requires it again. Our Covid19 vaccine cards are in there with them, but they'll probably only be good until next fall, when we'll have to compete for the Covid19 booster shot. And we still won't be able to take any of the cruises that that have been cancelled or postponed between now and then.

[mrlevin]

Just reported:

 

WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION'S EMERGENCY COMMITTEE RECOMMENDS NOT REQUIRING PROOF OF VACCINATION AS A CONDITION OF INTERNATIONAL TRAVEL - STATEMENT

[broberts]

24 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

Just reported:

 

WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION'S EMERGENCY COMMITTEE RECOMMENDS NOT REQUIRING PROOF OF VACCINATION AS A CONDITION OF INTERNATIONAL TRAVEL - STATEMENT

 

Do you have a link to this statement because I can't find any mention of this on the net?

[mrlevin]

Under temporary recommendations to State parties, see number 10:

 

https://www.who.int/news/item/19-04-2021-statement-on-the-seventh-meeting-of-the-international-health-regulations-(2005)-emergency-committee-regarding-the-coronavirus-disease-(covid-19)-pandemic

 

I had copied a Reuters report originally but was able to find the original WHO statement.

[Jimmcdaniel]

It actually says, “Do not require proof of vaccination as a condition of entry” rather than “condition of travel”. I guess that means it’s OK to require a quarantine as a condition of entry? I’m not really clear on what this statement is supposed to accomplish. Seems like proof of vaccination to avoid quarantine would be a good thing for travel?

[mrlevin]

What WHO has said, just as DeSantis and Biden and many others have said, is that it is discriminatory to ask for proof of vaccination to allow admittance.  The WHO committee statement clearly states that countries should NOT require proof of vaccination as a condition of entry.  DeSantis has said that businesses and government entities should NOT require proof of vaccination as a condition of entry.

 

As a civil libertarian, I understand that point of view.  As someone who is so looking forward to going on a cruise; I will waive my vaccination cards in front of anyone that wants to see them.

[Pam]

I have been to S. Africa twice, and at that time there were no vaccines required to enter the country.  That was 15 years ago, and there may be requirements now that didn't exist then.

[broberts]

4 hours ago, Jimmcdaniel said:

It actually says, “Do not require proof of vaccination as a condition of entry” rather than “condition of travel”. I guess that means it’s OK to require a quarantine as a condition of entry? I’m not really clear on what this statement is supposed to accomplish. Seems like proof of vaccination to avoid quarantine would be a good thing for travel?

 

If I understood correctly, the WHO reasoned that requiring proof of vaccination might disadvantage poorer countries that are lagging the vaccination rates of more affluent countries.

[BBWC]

3 hours ago, broberts said:

 

If I understood correctly, the WHO reasoned that requiring proof of vaccination might disadvantage poorer countries that are lagging the vaccination rates of more affluent countries.

Yes, that is their reasoning. Last year, the WHO said that countries should not impose travel bans, and most if them did. I suspect that their current recommendations will be ignored as well.

[PhD-iva]

7 hours ago, BBWC said:

Yes, that is their reasoning. Last year, the WHO said that countries should not impose travel bans, and most if them did. I suspect that their current recommendations will be ignored as well.

We can only hope. 

[Wendy The Wanderer]

It looks to me a if the intent of the WHO wording is that requiring proof of vaccination would disadvantage people from countries where they can't get the vaccine.  That makes sense right now, although the wording suggests that as the evidence of the efficacy of vaccines grows along with vaccine availability, this might change.

 

It also does not seem that their intent was to protect the the rights of us first-worlders to do what we like.

[mrlevin]

18 minutes ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

It looks to me a if the intent of the WHO wording is that requiring proof of vaccination would disadvantage people from countries where they can't get the vaccine.  That makes sense right now, although the wording suggests that as the evidence of the efficacy of vaccines grows along with vaccine availability, this might change.

 

It also does not seem that their intent was to protect the the rights of us first-worlders to do what we like.

All very true but the wording and impact (almost) identical.

[Caroldoll]

On 4/13/2021 at 5:12 AM, mmcguir said:

In case there was any doubt, DeSantis’s intent is now clear.  After SilverSea followed NCL’s lead in announcing that vaccines will be required for all passengers, the Gov’s office responded:

 

“The Governor’s Executive Order provides that businesses in Florida are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business,” press secretary Cody McCloud said by email. “Therefore, the Executive Order prohibits cruise lines from requiring vaccine passports for their Florida operations.  

 

In my opinion, this will not facilitate opening up the cruise industry. 

 

In my humble opinion, Regent should write to DeSantis and explain the situation.  Everyone is correct, cruising can not start safely without the vaccination card or a Vaccine Passport.  I understand that some think there are privacy and constitutional issues with a Vaccine Passport, but personally I would feel much safer if we had one issued by Clear or another similar agency so it couldn't be forged.  

 

[rallydave]

On 4/19/2021 at 4:51 PM, mrlevin said:

What WHO has said, just as DeSantis and Biden and many others have said, is that it is discriminatory to ask for proof of vaccination to allow admittance.  The WHO committee statement clearly states that countries should NOT require proof of vaccination as a condition of entry.  DeSantis has said that businesses and government entities should NOT require proof of vaccination as a condition of entry.

Use of the word should means may or may not and does not require any action.  In order to require any action requires the word shall.  So no requirement with the use of the word should if that is exactly what it says.  Words are important especially in cases like this where people could be denied passage with the word shall but, no with the word should.

[mrlevin]

2 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Use of the word should means may or may not and does not require any action.  In order to require any action requires the word shall.  So no requirement with the use of the word should if that is exactly what it says.  Words are important especially in cases like this where people could be denied passage with the word shall but, no with the word should.

I spent over 30 years in the requirements business; I understand the difference between should and shall. The WHO cannot mandate anything; thus the use of should.  As for Biden and DeSantis, they are both executives and not legislators so they also used the less emphatic word.  

[rallydave]

8 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

I spent over 30 years in the requirements business; I understand the difference between should and shall. The WHO cannot mandate anything; thus the use of should.  As for Biden and DeSantis, they are both executives and not legislators so they also used the less emphatic word.  

Thank you.  Glad you understand.  Problem is that the majority of people think that should is a requirement.

[mmcguir]

On 4/19/2021 at 5:51 PM, mrlevin said:

What WHO has said, just as DeSantis and Biden and many others have said, is that it is discriminatory to ask for proof of vaccination to allow admittance.  The WHO committee statement clearly states that countries should NOT require proof of vaccination as a condition of entry.  DeSantis has said that businesses and government entities should NOT require proof of vaccination as a condition of entry.

 

As a civil libertarian, I understand that point of view.  As someone who is so looking forward to going on a cruise; I will waive my vaccination cards in front of anyone that wants to see them.

I haven’t seen any communication where President “Biden and many others” have said anything like this.  Desantis is alone on this anti-vax pandering crusade to control what companies in the private sector require to do business with them.  Desantis has said not only that cruise lines cannot require proof of vaccines, but that non-vaccinated passengers must be allowed on privately owned cruise ships.   

[rallydave]

17 minutes ago, mmcguir said:

I haven’t seen any communication where President “Biden and many others” have said anything like this.  Desantis is alone on this anti-vax pandering crusade to control what companies in the private sector require to do business with them.  Desantis has said not only that cruise lines cannot require proof of vaccines, but that non-vaccinated passengers must be allowed on privately owned cruise ships.   

Clearly stated by the WHO in the link in post 80 above and fat about the same time DeSantis made his Executive Order the White House made the identical statement about the Federal Government not allowing people being asked to prove vaccinations.  The Governor of Texas has also issues an Executive Order almost identical to DeSantis.  And other states have either done the same or are working on approval of thet language while other states are working on Vaccine Passports.

 

And this is NOT an anti-vax pandering, it is not allowing people being asked to prove they were vaccinated. 

[CruisetheCs]

Makes perfect nonsense to me. I'm sure no one on a cruise ship would care whether others are really vaccinated.  Why not just eliminate proof of everything--surely no one should be forced to prove they have a driver's license.  Why next thing you know some state or local government will want people to show an ID to vote. 

[DavidTheWonderer]

6 hours ago, CruisetheCs said:

Makes perfect nonsense to me. I'm sure no one on a cruise ship would care whether others are really vaccinated.  Why not just eliminate proof of everything--surely no one should be forced to prove they have a driver's license.  Why next thing you know some state or local government will want people to show an ID to vote. 

Long long ago in another universe, I had to show ID to buy a bottle of whiskey. I'm not quite sure when this universe was substituted for that one, but I'm sure the switch was for nefarious purposes.

[mmcguir]

20 hours ago, rallydave said:

Clearly stated by the WHO in the link in post 80 above and fat about the same time DeSantis made his Executive Order the White House made the identical statement about the Federal Government not allowing people being asked to prove vaccinations.  The Governor of Texas has also issues an Executive Order almost identical to DeSantis.  And other states have either done the same or are working on approval of thet language while other states are working on Vaccine Passports.

 

And this is NOT an anti-vax pandering, it is not allowing people being asked to prove they were vaccinated. 

It is most certainly is anti-vax pandering.  “not allowing people being asked to prove they were vaccinated” means that unvaccinated people will be allowed to board privately owned cruise ships, attend concerts and sporting events at privately owned arenas.  As the Palm Beach Post editorial put it:  “DeSantis is staking a strange position with this fight of his. He’s fighting for the liberation of unvaccinated people to spread germs as they please in the middle of a worldwide pandemic -- one that appears to be surging again.”

[amusea]

Will somebody please tell me how a cruise ship that is headed for a foreign country's port where the vaccination is mandatory must allow a person who is not vaccinated for Covid to board the cruise ship?  This is really unworkable.

[rallydave]

6 hours ago, amusea said:

Will somebody please tell me how a cruise ship that is headed for a foreign country's port where the vaccination is mandatory must allow a person who is not vaccinated for Covid to board the cruise ship?  This is really unworkable.

What a great and insightful  comment. I guess the answer is some of our not very bright governors legislatures and president who have banned proof of vaccinations. Even a single on board person without proof of vaccination will prevent ships from docking. This lack of proof will affect the entire travel business for all types of transportation. 

[Pcardad]

7 hours ago, amusea said:

Will somebody please tell me how a cruise ship that is headed for a foreign country's port where the vaccination is mandatory must allow a person who is not vaccinated for Covid to board the cruise ship?  This is really unworkable.

They will require it...end of story.