Proof of Vax or Not. Would you cruise

[Jelly_Toast]

If no cruises require a vaccine, maybe after a time once I see how crusing is going and how cases of covid on board are handled. My entire family has been vaccinated.  I have two college aged kids and will not threaten their ability to go back to campus at the end of a cruise because of quarantine restrictions.  I also don't particularly want to be quarantined so in general I will have a wait and see attitude toward crusing.  I have a cruise booked in late November and that's still up in the air at this point.

 

If some cruise lines require vaccines and Carnival does not then I probably would cruise with a line that requires it because quite honestly I'm not interested on being on a vacation with the clientele that this situation would attract. It's not political.  I'm tired of people using that reasoning for why some people are choosing masks/vaccines/other safety measures and some people aren't. I'm not interested in being on a ship with thousands of people who have chosen to disregard these things.

[evandbob]

I'm not interested in being on a ship with thousands of people who have chosen to disregard these things.

 

I'm not even interested in cruising on a ship that has a few hundred unvaxxed folk on it.  All vaxxed or I won't cruise.

 

We all make choices, and those who prefer being unvaxxed can cruise Carnival if that's how CCL plays it.  I'll just choose a different line like Celebrity and sail with only vaxxed persons.

 

Whatever floats your boat.

[Honolulu Blue]

33 minutes ago, evandbob said:

We all make choices, and those who prefer being unvaxxed can cruise Carnival if that's how CCL plays it.  I'll just choose a different line like Celebrity and sail with only vaxxed persons.

 

Celebrity's current policy has a huge asterisk next to it - all passengers 18+ are required to have the vaccine.  Passengers under 18 are allowed on the ship and ARE NOT required to be vaccinated.

[SNJCruisers]

11 minutes ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

Celebrity's current policy has a huge asterisk next to it - all passengers 18+ are required to have the vaccine.  Passengers under 18 are allowed on the ship and ARE NOT required to be vaccinated.

The only true fully vaccinated mass market line will be NCL, whose policy requires everyone to be vaccinated and is currently it's policy through the end of October.   Just happens to coincide with the expiration of the CSO.

[JandPB]

I agree with the OP in post #1. I have had Covid. I know I got it from being in school 5 days a week with students.  I was not one of the people who were asymptomatic. I was in a bed for almost two weeks with one run to the hospital. My concern isn’t necessarily about me getting Covid again, and I probably should be worried about it, but my concern is if there is an outbreak not involving me, how is that handled and how does that affect the rest of my vacation. Do we miss the rest of the ports and head back? Are we quarantined in our staterooms? That’s my concern with having it be a free for all. I have a few cruises booked but will take a wait and see as to how issues are handled. 

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, JandPB said:

My concern isn’t necessarily about me getting Covid again, and I probably should be worried about it, but my concern is if there is an outbreak not involving me, how is that handled and how does that affect the rest of my vacation. Do we miss the rest of the ports and head back? Are we quarantined in our staterooms?

What if there is an outbreak involving you?

 

Even if the cruise doesn't end, individual ports could refuse to allow the cruise ship entry. Most have limited resources and don't want an outbreak. And what of other cruise ships in port? I can see where it could transfer from ship to ship if passengers are allowed to mingle in port.

[SNJCruisers]

3 hours ago, cruiseracer said:

It still comes down to choice.

With the cruiser whether he or she takes the jab and also with the cruise line whether they allow the unvaccinated to cruise on their line or not.

[Radiioman46]

You guys/gals keep asking what if there is an outbreak? 

 

Please define to me what you consider an outbreak is, so that I can understand better what your concerns are. I'm just curious....

[Jelly_Toast]

5 minutes ago, Radiioman46 said:

You guys/gals keep asking what if there is an outbreak? 

 

Please define to me what you consider an outbreak is, so that I can understand better what your concerns are. I'm just curious....

For me I worry about a situation that plays out like this:  Let's say that vaccines are not required but negative tests are. Everyone gets on the ship with a card/paper/whatever that says within the previous 72 hours they had a negative test.

 

Day two someone goes to the onboard clinic because they have a fever and feel terrible. A rapid test is done and it's positive.

 

Now what? Is everyone on board tested again? Surely we don't know who has it now and who doesn't.  Even fully vaccinated people can still get covid (albeit a less serious case in most circumstances) and pass it to someone else. Certainly they cannot decide that vaccinated people can still roam the boat while unvaccinated people are quarantined in their rooms.

 

But let's say they are completely irresponsible and this man's cabin mates and table mates are tested and found to be negative so only his cabin mates are quarantined for the duration.  Do any ports want to let people disembark into their country while there is a known case on board?  No. 

 

So then what?  Sail home?  How is the decision made to let people off the ship?  If they are, do they quarantine at home, in a nearby hotel?  Do they just miss work or school? Do we trust that people will actually quarantine?

 

There is no precedence for this sort of thing but all it will take is one positive case after sail away and the cruise will be over for everyone.

 

[Radiioman46]

2 minutes ago, Jelly_Toast said:

For me I worry about a situation that plays out like this:  Let's say that vaccines are not required but negative tests are. Everyone gets on the ship with a card/paper/whatever that says within the previous 72 hours they had a negative test.

 

Day two someone goes to the onboard clinic because they have a fever and feel terrible. A rapid test is done and it's positive.

 

 

I would think that on day 2 there was one individual who tested positive, I would set him aside for a few hours and test him again, especially with another type test. 2 positives, quarantine and his room mate, or family, if he's travelling with a group.

 

Keep operating normal until there are more positive tests, but the question I keep asking is how many constitutes an outbreak. You appear to think that one positive test is enough to tank a cruise. I don't think so, at least for me. 

 

As they on land, YMMV.

[volfan22701]

3 minutes ago, Radiioman46 said:

I would think that on day 2 there was one individual who tested positive, I would set him aside for a few hours and test him again, especially with another type test. 2 positives, quarantine and his room mate, or family, if he's travelling with a group.

 

Keep operating normal until there are more positive tests, but the question I keep asking is how many constitutes an outbreak. You appear to think that one positive test is enough to tank a cruise. I don't think so, at least for me. 

 

As they on land, YMMV.

one known positive onboard will be enough to cause all ports of call to not let the ship dock there. then when coming home all may have to be tested and/or quarantined before allowed into the states.

[asalligo]

I do not care if anyone on the ship or no one on the ship is vaccinated. I never would have stopped cruising without the forced closure.  

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Radiioman46 said:

You guys/gals keep asking what if there is an outbreak? 

 

Please define to me what you consider an outbreak is, so that I can understand better what your concerns are. I'm just curious....

No one knows. They talk about if the number of cases meets a threshold, but I do not believe I have ever seen a definition of what the threshold would be. Would it be a specific number? Or might it be a percentage of passengers and crew? With ships of varying sizes, which definition you used would matter greatly.

[Radiioman46]

2 hours ago, volfan22701 said:

one known positive onboard will be enough to cause all ports of call to not let the ship dock there. then when coming home all may have to be tested and/or quarantined before allowed into the states.

How do you know this? All Ports? Is there a link that stays updated on this? Thanks!

[harkinmr]

8 hours ago, JandPB said:

I agree with the OP in post #1. I have had Covid. I know I got it from being in school 5 days a week with students.  I was not one of the people who were asymptomatic. I was in a bed for almost two weeks with one run to the hospital. My concern isn’t necessarily about me getting Covid again, and I probably should be worried about it, but my concern is if there is an outbreak not involving me, how is that handled and how does that affect the rest of my vacation. Do we miss the rest of the ports and head back? Are we quarantined in our staterooms? That’s my concern with having it be a free for all. I have a few cruises booked but will take a wait and see as to how issues are handled. 

This is the current protocol in the Conditional Sail Order.  The voyage would end and all passengers would quarantine in their cabin. There is no definition of what the "threshold" of cases would be as yet.

 

(a) Based on a threshold of COVID-19 being detected in passengers or crew, as determined through CDC technical instructions or orders, a cruise ship operator must immediately take the following actions:

(1) Conduct such notifications of passengers, crew members, and other government entities as CDC may require.

(2) Immediately end the restricted passenger voyage, cancel future restricted passenger voyages until directed by CDC that such voyages may resume, and return the ship to the U.S. port of embarkation.

(3) Immediately isolate any sick or infected passengers and crew in single occupancy

cabins with private bathrooms and quarantine all remaining passengers and non-essential crew.

 

 

 

[bunchesofun]

There has always been people with the seasonal flu cruising and having the flu onboard.  Of course I would cruise!  Anyone onboard could have ANYTHING contagious. No one talks about the dreaded Norovirus anymore.

[Billoftt]

On 4/24/2021 at 11:53 AM, stellarose said:

I am teacher in school with students FIVE days a week- lets cruise. 

My three school aged children (9th, 5th, and 2nd) have been back to school in-person since last August.  Other than a proactive post-Christmas quarantine, there have been NO issues or outbreaks. Even before the teachers got vaccinated. 

[stellarose]

32 minutes ago, Billoftt said:

My three school aged children (9th, 5th, and 2nd) have been back to school in-person since last August.  Other than a proactive post-Christmas quarantine, there have been NO issues or outbreaks. Even before the teachers got vaccinated. 

yup. my school district has been lucky, knock on wood. masks, social distances , hand washing is working.  I hope you children are doing ok and glad to hear they are in school , in person. 

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Billoftt said:

My three school aged children (9th, 5th, and 2nd) have been back to school in-person since last August.  Other than a proactive post-Christmas quarantine, there have been NO issues or outbreaks. Even before the teachers got vaccinated. 

My DW's school has been going half attended and half virtual with the students alternating weeks. The third graders have just been quarantined, and she would also have been if she had not been fully vaccinated. Last year she did have to serve a 10 day quarantine because one of the 5th graders tested positive and my wife was exposed to her during lunch duty (no mask while you eat).

[Billoftt]

23 hours ago, ontheweb said:

My DW's school has been going half attended and half virtual with the students alternating weeks. The third graders have just been quarantined, and she would also have been if she had not been fully vaccinated. Last year she did have to serve a 10 day quarantine because one of the 5th graders tested positive and my wife was exposed to her during lunch duty (no mask while you eat).

I think this is a good example illustrating that there is no "one size fits all" solution to mitigate the hazard.  It's very audacious to assume that every school is should be following the exact same template across a single state, let alone the entire country.  Frankly, each school district should be the ones making the decisions, not a large federal entity that could not produce a staff member that was able to point to the school in question on a map. 

 

What works for a small charter school most likely will not work for a (presumably) public school in Monticello, NY or an over crowded public school in Chicago or a small private school in wherever.

 

Likewise, I do not believe any of these people making the decisions about the No Sail Order have ever actually been on a cruise ship.  Did anyone in the CDC that drafted the No Sail Order actually pull people from their own Vessel Sanitation Program? You know, the division of the CDC that actually routinely inspected these vessels for compliance with public health regs and practices? 

[ontheweb]

47 minutes ago, Billoftt said:

I think this is a good example illustrating that there is no "one size fits all" solution to mitigate the hazard.  It's very audacious to assume that every school is should be following the exact same template across a single state, let alone the entire country.  Frankly, each school district should be the ones making the decisions, not a large federal entity that could not produce a staff member that was able to point to the school in question on a map. 

 

What works for a small charter school most likely will not work for a (presumably) public school in Monticello, NY or an over crowded public school in Chicago or a small private school in wherever.

 

 

Two corrections

 

1. It is a public school.

 

2. It is in a nearby district, not Monticello which is a much larger district.

[cscurlock]

At the end of the day I think the question is moot because unless you are just going to a private island or just going to stay on the ship the whole time I think most other countries will require proof of vaccination to disembark at their ports.   Which in turn will probably just make the cruise lines mandate the vaccines.  I am sure the cdc will give them access to some type of list in order to provide the other countries verification that all passengers are vaccinated.  Europe I am sure is working on a digital vaccination app you can use on your phone that will verify your vaccination status.

[SRQbeachgirl]

We really have no problem going on a cruise with people who aren't vaccinated. DH and I are both fully vaccinated, but our DS (22) is not and doesn't plan to be. If vaccinations are required, we will go on our B2B in April 2022 since that trip is just DH and I, but we will cancel our family Thanksgiving cruise (Me, DH, my parents, and DS) since DS would not be able to go. He's definitely not anti-vaxx, but as someone who has very little chance of significant health issues even if he were to get COVID, he wants a longer history of study for any long-term side effects for his age group.  

 

Even my parents--who are in their late 70's,  live with us, are fully vaccinated, and both have health issues--don't worry about going on a cruise with or being around people who are unvaccinated. They actually encouraged our DS not to get vaccinated until long-term studies are done.

[Tall Valley Cruiser]

I saw this fine print on the Holland America and Princess sites. Anyone know if it is on the Carnival one as well? "If a threshold of COVID-19 is detected on board the ship, the voyage will be ended, the ship will return to the port of embarkation, and your subsequent travel home may be restricted or delayed."

 

So, if you are vaccinated and not concerned about catching COVID, you might get a bit concerned that the unvaccinated that slip past the testing (test negative but have COVID, but the viral load does not pick it up for a few days) could get sick on the cruise.

 

Could make you anxious every time someone sneezes or coughs on the elevator, or at the buffet that the cruise could be terminated. Vaccination not 100% of course but better than starting from 0% and hoping for the best.

[SRQbeachgirl]

17 minutes ago, Tall Valley Cruiser said:

I saw this fine print on the Holland America and Princess sites. Anyone know if it is on the Carnival one as well? "If a threshold of COVID-19 is detected on board the ship, the voyage will be ended, the ship will return to the port of embarkation, and your subsequent travel home may be restricted or delayed."

 

So, if you are vaccinated and not concerned about catching COVID, you might get a bit concerned that the unvaccinated that slip past the testing (test negative but have COVID, but the viral load does not pick it up for a few days) could get sick on the cruise.

 

Could make you anxious every time someone sneezes or coughs on the elevator, or at the buffet that the cruise could be terminated. Vaccination not 100% of course but better than starting from 0% and hoping for the best.

 

Being nervous about a cruise being diverted or ended due to illness is valid and if people are worried about that, then they will have to decide if that risk is too much for them. Considering most of the high-risk folks would probably be vaccinated, I'm more concerned about someone having a heart attack (which has happened to someone on one of my cruises). I haven't seen anything defining "threshold," but hopefully there will be more guidance on that before ships start sailing again.

 

My issue is vaccinated people acting like every unvaccinated person is a leper to be avoided at all costs. Completely undermines the fact that the vaccines are highly effective when vaccinated people are afraid to be in a room with anyone who is unvaccinated. And it certainly doesn't give people who might have reservations about getting vaccinated any incentive to get it.