Cruising Without a Vaccination

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

Those not accepting the injection

- protection isn't needed (for the majority who are not vulnerable)

- The vaccine itself protects the vulnerable in society

- Natural immunity may be better in the long run to protect against variants

- Long term effects of mRNA are unknown

- Already back to "normal" life (or as normal of life as will be allowed).

- Distrust main stream media censorship

 

 

@BermudaBound2014

 

Let me address each item you have sited:

• Protection is needed for some who just may become infected with the virus. You just do not know if you may be the unlucky one with NO comorbidites but still become sick. You may experience those pesky "long haul" side effects even if you have asymptomatic infection.
• Agree that the vaccine is doing its job that it was meant to do. PROTECT not only those vulnerable but those who appear healthy as an ox.
• Data so far has shown that natural immunity is not as robust as vaccine immunity. I have posted a very informative article several times on this forum about this
• You are correct that long term effect of the mRNA vaccines are not known. Having said that, there have been experts who have said many times over that history of vaccines have shown that adverse side effects occur within a couple of weeks after receiving vaccines. Long term effects do not occur months from inoculation, let alone years. They firmly believe mRNA vaccines will follow all the vaccines in our history.
• Un-vaccinated folks may be "back to normal already" but that is certainly risky business. Asymptomatic infectious people do not even know they are infected. If these un-vaccinated people are living life back to normal (such as not masking or social distancing), they just may be passing on this virus to vulnerable people who, for medical reasons, can not get vaccinated. They just my be responsible for someone's death and not even be aware of it.
• Distrust of main stream media, IMHO, is because of indoctrination from extreme news sources, left or right. Extremists will never trust MSM so that is certainly a lost cause. I have used fact check sites to dispel many myths of extremists news sources and those conspiracy theories are always debunked with documented and proven facts.

 

[coffeebean]

2 hours ago, Dreamcruiser2 said:

Actually, the scapegoat is saying that God will protect them

That is another discussion all together and probably another forum too. But I will say this to that comment....... ROTFLMAO!!!

[Beach Life 1]

19 minutes ago, Stallion said:

You'd have to be in politics to make that dog hunt. Seriously, the numbers are absolutely clear who isn't getting the vaccines. But I understand why that makes you upset because about 60% of VOTING age Americans have already gotten a dose

Sorry, not trying to be curt,  but I don't understand what you are trying to say. 

[BermudaBound2014]

23 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

@BermudaBound2014

 

Let me address each item you have sited:

• Protection is needed for some who just may become infected with the virus. You just do not know if you may be the unlucky one with NO comorbidites but still become sick. You may experience those pesky "long haul" side effects even if you have asymptomatic infection.
• Agree that the vaccine is doing its job that it was meant to do. PROTECT not only those vulnerable but those who appear healthy as an ox.
• Data so far has shown that natural immunity is not as robust as vaccine immunity. I have posted a very informative article several times on this forum about this
• You are correct that long term effect of the mRNA vaccines are not known. Having said that, there have been experts who have said many times over that history of vaccines have shown that adverse side effects occur within a couple of weeks after receiving vaccines. Long term effects do not occur months from inoculation, let alone years. They firmly believe mRNA vaccines will follow all the vaccines in our history.
• Un-vaccinated folks may be "back to normal already" but that is certainly risky business. Asymptomatic infectious people do not even know they are infected. If these un-vaccinated people are living life back to normal (such as not masking or social distancing), they just may be passing on this virus to vulnerable people who, for medical reasons, can not get vaccinated. They just my be responsible for someone's death and not even be aware of it.
• Distrust of main stream media, IMHO, is because of indoctrination from extreme news sources, left or right. Extremists will never trust MSM so that is certainly a lost cause. I have used fact check sites to dispel many myths of extremists news sources and those conspiracy theories are always debunked with documented and proven facts.

 

 

Quick response:

1) Life has risk. 

2) Both the injection and natural immunity are providing protection.

3) No argument about short term protection. Long term protection unknown. You have also read the scholarly journals which point to natural immunity as a better long range solution, correct?

4) Once again, you have missed the point entirely.

5) Anyone who fails to acknowledge that MSM is manipulating data is devoid of rational thought.  

 

It's clear you are so far invested in the vaccine that it is hopeless to help you to see the complexity of the decision for others. Peace be with you.

[coffeebean]

58 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Quick response:

1) Life has risk. 

2) Both the injection and natural immunity are providing protection.

3) No argument about short term protection. Long term protection unknown. You have also read the scholarly journals which point to natural immunity as a better long range solution, correct?

4) Once again, you have missed the point entirely.

5) Anyone who fails to acknowledge that MSM is manipulating data is devoid of rational thought.  

 

It's clear you are so far invested in the vaccine that it is hopeless to help you to see the complexity of the decision for others. Peace be with you.

Thank you. To you as well.

[coffeebean]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Quick response:

1) Life has risk. 

2) Both the injection and natural immunity are providing protection.

3) No argument about short term protection. Long term protection unknown. You have also read the scholarly journals which point to natural immunity as a better long range solution, correct?

4) Once again, you have missed the point entirely.

5) Anyone who fails to acknowledge that MSM is manipulating data is devoid of rational thought.  

 

It's clear you are so far invested in the vaccine that it is hopeless to help you to see the complexity of the decision for others. Peace be with you.

I researched what you mentioned to me. Many hopes for those who have recovered from Covid......

Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

[coffeebean]

2 hours ago, jezabel80 said:

Just stop already with the politics!  It was Harris that said she would never get the vaccine.   I would say 90% of my friends are Republicans,  and they have all received  the Vaccine.  People will do, what people will do, because they do what they feel is right for them.  Trump has nothing do to with people not wanting the vaccine.  Stop already!!   Please

I responded to this post but I see my response has been taken down. Hope you saw it before it was zapped.

[Beach Life 1]

5 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I responded to this post but I see my response has been taken down. Hope you saw it before it was zapped.

No I did not see it

[coffeebean]

5 minutes ago, jezabel80 said:

No I did not see it

Too bad. Wish you had.

[Beach Life 1]

1 minute ago, coffeebean said:

Too bad. Wish you had.

I'm sure you disagreed with me.  But, hey, all's good.  We all have different opinions.

[coffeebean]

12 minutes ago, jezabel80 said:

I'm sure you disagreed with me.  But, hey, all's good.  We all have different opinions.

Very true.

[winterbliss]

5 hours ago, Dreamcruiser2 said:

How did I know that this is your preferred source for misinformation?!?!

I am not in the least surprised by your sarcasm. Believe it or not, I understand your reaction.

Edited May 14, 2021 by winterbliss

[KennyFla]

12 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Great simple explanation with graphic....

How mRNA Covid vaccines work

 

Our immune systems also have memory cells that will jump into action if the body is exposed to the Covid virus. Those soldiers are the T Cells and the B Cells of our immune system. Great stuff.

How our immune system works - B Cells and T Cells explained

I think we agree.  The articles you reference just don't explain how it works:

 

"The mRNA in the vaccine teaches your cells how to make copies of the spike protein. If you are"

 

Copies of cells are made by unlocking the DNA strand, going to the bit of code the cell needs, and using those instructions.

 

"These cells take longer to develop, because their behaviors evolve from learned experiences, but they tend to live longer than innate cells. Adaptive immune cells remember foreign invaders after their first encounter and fight them off the next time they enter the body. "

 

 

Cells "remember" foreign invaders by taking a small piece of their genetic code, mRna, and incorporating it into your DNA string.  So, yes, the claims that the vaccine does not directly enter the nucleus of the cell is true, this info is transferred to builder cells.

 

"B-cells fight bacteria and viruses by making Y-shaped proteins called antibodies, which are specific to each pathogen and are able to lock onto the surface of an invading cell and mark it for destruction by other immune cells"

"Messenger RNA, or mRNA, is genetic material that tells your body how to make protein"

 

 

They have to have specific and learned instruction to do this.

 

Sorry to ramble, but I find this very interesting.

 

[coffeebean]

30 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

I think we agree.  The articles you reference just don't explain how it works:

 

"The mRNA in the vaccine teaches your cells how to make copies of the spike protein. If you are"

 

Copies of cells are made by unlocking the DNA strand, going to the bit of code the cell needs, and using those instructions.

 

"These cells take longer to develop, because their behaviors evolve from learned experiences, but they tend to live longer than innate cells. Adaptive immune cells remember foreign invaders after their first encounter and fight them off the next time they enter the body. "

 

 

Cells "remember" foreign invaders by taking a small piece of their genetic code, mRna, and incorporating it into your DNA string.  So, yes, the claims that the vaccine does not directly enter the nucleus of the cell is true, this info is transferred to builder cells.

 

"B-cells fight bacteria and viruses by making Y-shaped proteins called antibodies, which are specific to each pathogen and are able to lock onto the surface of an invading cell and mark it for destruction by other immune cells"

"Messenger RNA, or mRNA, is genetic material that tells your body how to make protein"

 

 

They have to have specific and learned instruction to do this.

 

Sorry to ramble, but I find this very interesting.

 

It is fascinating to me too. Modern science is fascinating.

[graphicguy]

14 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Congratulations on your retirement. There is lots of work to do......researching cruises. Have fun.

Thanks!  New way of life, that's for sure.  Doing a lot of volunteering.  But, still trying to get the hang of not having to get up early in the a.m. to "go to work".  I now have a leisurely cup of coffee and peruse Cruise Critic instead of emails.  LOL!

Edited May 14, 2021 by graphicguy

[Red-Sol]

17 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Thanks!  New way of life, that's for sure.  Doing a lot of volunteering.  But, still trying to get the hang of not having to get up early in the a.m. to "go to work".  I now have a leisurely cup of coffee and peruse Cruise Critic instead of emails.  LOL!

You are also getting ready to embark on one of life's great mysteries. Very soon you will start to find out that you no longer have enough time to do all of the things/chores etc that you want. (There won't be enough hours in the day) Even though you easily fit them in during your working years. I know this because I live it every day! Actually I am a little surprised I found the time to type out this reply! 🤣

[graphicguy]

8 minutes ago, Red-Sol said:

You are also getting ready to embark on one of life's great mysteries. Very soon you will start to find out that you no longer have enough time to do all of the things/chores etc that you want. (There won't be enough hours in the day) Even though you easily fit them in during your working years. I know this because I live it every day! Actually I am a little surprised I found the time to type out this reply! 🤣

Thank you!  I totally understand what you're saying as I'm finding it to be totally true. 😉

 

[DCGuy64]

13 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

Anyone who fails to acknowledge that MSM is manipulating data is devoid of rational thought. 

Ain't that the truth?

Last year before I quit Facebook (my little sister was right-it's a massive time suck!), I got into some interesting debates with people about how Covid news was reported. It wasn't that the media lied as much as they selectively reported. Suppose I told you that a mutual friend had bad breath, failed college English, and once stole a candy bar when he was 8, all of which was true, but left out the fact that he'd been a successful businessman, gave to charity and raised 3 great kids. Just because the 1st 3 facts are true, it doesn't take into account the good stuff. So when certain media outlets only talked about "raging Covid cases, deaths by the 1,000s, massive ventilator shortages, NO vaccines!, etc." but barely reported when cases and deaths went down, ventilator shortages were rare and resolved quickly, and a vaccine (or several) prepared in record time, then the media is engaging in sensationalism to drive ratings and scare people. It's not that they lied, it's that they ONLY told one side of the story, and that's infuriating. Not all outlets did this, BTW. The BBC was a rare exception that always ran figures on the chyron that told of people recovering, and put the negative numbers in context relative to the good outcomes.

 

[B Midged]

17 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Ain't that the truth?

Last year before I quit Facebook (my little sister was right-it's a massive time suck!), I got into some interesting debates with people about how Covid news was reported. It wasn't that the media lied as much as they selectively reported. Suppose I told you that a mutual friend had bad breath, failed college English, and once stole a candy bar when he was 8, all of which was true, but left out the fact that he'd been a successful businessman, gave to charity and raised 3 great kids. Just because the 1st 3 facts are true, it doesn't take into account the good stuff. So when certain media outlets only talked about "raging Covid cases, deaths by the 1,000s, massive ventilator shortages, NO vaccines!, etc." but barely reported when cases and deaths went down, ventilator shortages were rare and resolved quickly, and a vaccine (or several) prepared in record time, then the media is engaging in sensationalism to drive ratings and scare people. It's not that they lied, it's that they ONLY told one side of the story, and that's infuriating. Not all outlets did this, BTW. The BBC was a rare exception that always ran figures on the chyron that told of people recovering, and put the negative numbers in context relative to the good outcomes.

 

Get a hobby for god sake. Maybe model trains?

[Notnewtoit]

5 hours ago, B Midged said:

Get a hobby for god sake. Maybe model trains?

...I just went with the 'ignore' button... 🙂

[winemama]

6 hours ago, Red-Sol said:

You are also getting ready to embark on one of life's great mysteries. Very soon you will start to find out that you no longer have enough time to do all of the things/chores etc that you want. (There won't be enough hours in the day) Even though you easily fit them in during your working years. I know this because I live it every day! Actually I am a little surprised I found the time to type out this reply! 🤣

i so agree with you, we are both retired, and attend Temple via Zoom every Friday, and I swear every 3rd day is Friday, we are always asking, "what the hell happened to the Week?"

[I am cruising]

On 4/30/2021 at 11:28 AM, tallnthensome said:

Too many anti-vaxxers will lie and say they can’t take the vaccine due to medical reasons. Sorry but these people should not be let on board truth or not . They should vacation elsewhere on land. 

Well if they are able to vacation on land (as I assume they would be going places) then I think they should be able to cruise.

I honestly think it has all gone over the top now. Most people have the vaccinations ( myself included)  so it should be safe. Then no one would lie about it 

Edited June 8, 2021 by I am cruising
To add

[seaman11]

IM fully vaccinated and ready to go, a small inconvenience ,if it helps myself and others who are older ,thats a good thing, 

 

 

ill be sure to send a post to those who dont want it., sipping a my frozen drink and enjoying that ocean mist. 

[fredflint]

people who have a compromised immune system, people taking drugs to suppress their immune system such as organ transplant patients all cannot/should not get vaccinated.  

 

Best for anyone with any kind of issue that would cause them to react severely to COVID should probably not cruise at this time even if vaccinated.  For the most part the hospital on a cruise ship  can provide basic care and can be easily overwhelmed, many ports may not have quality medical facilities to provide care for someone with heart lung issues.

 

Why risk it at this point?

[forgotmyCCname]

On 4/30/2021 at 8:28 AM, ericfromri said:

i am pretty sure you will need electronic confirmation. all of these vaccines are entered into health databases.  in fact everyone i know, there shot dose,serial #, date and adminster's name is on apple health in the app.

Nope! There is no national database. We advised our patients to photograph their cards, both sides, and then laminate. Maybe they do it in your state, but not in Maryland or PA and definitely not national. The card WILL show the lot #, date, etc.

 

The lack of a vehicle to confirm the validity of a card is one of the reasons they are so easy to fake.

 

And even if certain areas had such a data base a cruise line would not be allowed to access it. 

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by forgotmyCCname