New CDC guidelines for simulated cruises

[NavArch64]

Phase 2B are "simulated passenger voyages".

Phase 4 are "restricted passenger voyages".

The CDC Operations Manual applies to both.

[radarcruiser]

4 minutes ago, NavArch64 said:

Phase 2B are "simulated passenger voyages".

Phase 4 are "restricted passenger voyages".

The CDC Operations Manual applies to both.

In those immortal words of Shaggy, "Rut roh"!!! 

Edited May 5, 2021 by radarcruiser
grammar

[sandebeach]

9 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

We will see.  Florida doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.  If DeSantis does push it, there won't be cruising from Florida for some time.  CDC does NOT have to compromise with the State of Florida.  Florida's beef is with the cruise lines on the vaccine requirement.

A local Florida private university, that had announced mandatory vaccinations for students returning in Fall, has just announced that they had to retract that mandate because of the Governor's new Executive Order. So I don't know what the cruise lines will do, the Governor insists that cruise lines do not need to mandate vaccinations for passengers. 

[sandebeach]

12 minutes ago, NavArch64 said:

Phase 2B are "simulated passenger voyages".

Phase 4 are "restricted passenger voyages".

The CDC Operations Manual applies to both.

I have been reading through the guidelines. The CDC has defined "simulated voyagers" as "trial cruises". But I can not find the CDC definition of "restricted passenger voyages". 

[bucfan2]

Man, cruising appears to be a former ‘dream vacation’ for us.  Sure shows a lot of confidence in the vaccine/etc.  An un-needed root canal is more likely to get scheduled than a ‘cruise vacation’, at least until some sense of sanity is displayed.

Edited May 5, 2021 by bucfan2

[harkinmr]

2 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

A local Florida private university, that had announced mandatory vaccinations for students returning in Fall, has just announced that they had to retract that mandate because of the Governor's new Executive Order. So I don't know what the cruise lines will do, the Governor insists that cruise lines do not need to mandate vaccinations for passengers. 

If that's the direction the university chooses to go, then that's their deal.  The Governor can insist all he wants that he can ban a vaccine requirement by the cruise lines.  He's wrong.  There is no lawyer worth his or her salt that has said he has a leg to stand on with the cruise lines, or any other business for that matter.  Actually, I hope he does continue to push it and the cruise lines either are forced to try to reopen the more difficult and more expensive way, or they just take their cruising ball elsewhere in the US where good sense reigns.

[NavArch64]

See Framework for Conditional Sailing Order: Phased Approach (Print-only) (cdc.gov)

 

[SidneyHuff1950]

I would like to volunteer.

 

Sidney

[sandebeach]

13 minutes ago, NavArch64 said:

See Framework for Conditional Sailing Order: Phased Approach (Print-only) (cdc.gov)

 

Thanks.  So Phase 4 could still have restrictions on length of voyage. But perhaps that will change in November if the CSO expires in November. 

[coldflame]

3 hours ago, sandebeach said:

CDC kept the part about wearing masks on the pool deck:

Requirements

To reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2, cruise ship operators must:

• This means it is particularly important for bathers to maintain social distancing of at least 6 feet (2 meters) when in the water with others who are not traveling companions or part of the same family.

Oh yeah I mean it should be no problem at all in the immense and spacious swimming pools on board.

[coffeebean]

36 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

A local Florida private university, that had announced mandatory vaccinations for students returning in Fall, has just announced that they had to retract that mandate because of the Governor's new Executive Order. So I don't know what the cruise lines will do, the Governor insists that cruise lines do not need to mandate vaccinations for passengers. 

The governor know squat. What the hell does he know?

[NavArch64]

All of this appears to be under the CSO time frame until Nov 1. Maybe all of this goes away on Nov 1 ... or maybe the CSO gets extended. Who knows?

[sandebeach]

2 minutes ago, coldflame said:

Oh yeah I mean it should be no problem at all in the immense and spacious swimming pools on board.

You made me laugh!

[sandebeach]

2 minutes ago, NavArch64 said:

All of this appears to be under the CSO time frame until Nov 1. Maybe all of this goes away on Nov 1 ... or maybe the CSO gets extended. Who knows?

So true.

[NavArch64]

If I were Richard, Arnold or Frank, I wouldn't poke Rochelle again.

[Ocean Boy]

14 minutes ago, NavArch64 said:

All of this appears to be under the CSO time frame until Nov 1. Maybe all of this goes away on Nov 1 ... or maybe the CSO gets extended. Who knows?

Have to flatten the curve.🙄

[jrapps]

1 hour ago, harkinmr said:

It's not intended to be a pleasure cruise.  Any volunteer had better understand that it will be anything but, and will be a constant test of protocols, restrictions, outbreak procedures, isolation and quarantine procedures, and even a test return to port putting a quick ending to the cruise.  They don't call it a "test" cruise for nothing. 🙄  Cruise lines aren't going to risk any vulnerable person, including children, getting COVID.

Oh I totally get that. I should have been clearer..I thought the purpose was to test ALL protocols that might be employed on a regular sailing. Wouldn't that also include making sure the kids clubs adhere to Covid protocols? Can you imagine doing a test sailing, passing with flying colors, and then having a revenue cruise go and have 30+ unvaccinated children have a Covid outbreak because they never proved out they can keep the kids safe? With kids not able to get vaccines, and less likely to adhere to social distancing in a kid club, I would think that is the biggest risk area on the ship.

 

You can argue kids may or may not be as vunerable to Covid, but they can still catch it and transmit it. If any area is going to have an outbreak and shut down the cruise, my money is on the kids club.

[Vera/Lee]

24 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

Thanks.  So Phase 4 could still have restrictions on length of voyage. But perhaps that will change in November if the CSO expires in November. 

I was thinking about my 8 day cruise in August when I read that. I hope it can sail as a 7 day.

[coldflame]

8 minutes ago, jrapps said:

Oh I totally get that. I should have been clearer..I thought the purpose was to test ALL protocols that might be employed on a regular sailing. Wouldn't that also include making sure the kids clubs adhere to Covid protocols? Can you imagine doing a test sailing, passing with flying colors, and then having a revenue cruise go and have 30+ unvaccinated children have a Covid outbreak because they never proved out they can keep the kids safe? With kids not able to get vaccines, and less likely to adhere to social distancing in a kid club, I would think that is the biggest risk area on the ship.

 

You can argue kids may or may not be as vunerable to Covid, but they can still catch it and transmit it. If any area is going to have an outbreak and shut down the cruise, my money is on the kids club.

 

Excellent point. Kids and youth clubs are prime vectors for transmission. Seems they need to be very strict with masks otherwise that cruise will be back on port and in quarantine the next day.

[Ocean Boy]

11 minutes ago, jrapps said:

Oh I totally get that. I should have been clearer..I thought the purpose was to test ALL protocols that might be employed on a regular sailing. Wouldn't that also include making sure the kids clubs adhere to Covid protocols? Can you imagine doing a test sailing, passing with flying colors, and then having a revenue cruise go and have 30+ unvaccinated children have a Covid outbreak because they never proved out they can keep the kids safe? With kids not able to get vaccines, and less likely to adhere to social distancing in a kid club, I would think that is the biggest risk area on the ship.

 

You can argue kids may or may not be as vunerable to Covid, but they can still catch it and transmit it. If any area is going to have an outbreak and shut down the cruise, my money is on the kids club.

Seems the "experts" at CDC may have overlooked that.

[jonbgd]

1 hour ago, radarcruiser said:

In those immortal words of Shaggy, "Rut roh"!!! 

It would be Scooby saying that and Shaggy telling him lets go get some scooby snacks and watch the entertainment🤯

[Anton]

Regarding Florida's new law about banning vaccine passports, perhaps the supremacy clause of the US Constitution will be used to override Florida law since CDC is issuing federal rules and citing various existing federal statutes as the source for their authority.

[HBCcruiser]

1 hour ago, NavArch64 said:

Phase 2B are "simulated passenger voyages".

Phase 4 are "restricted passenger voyages".

The CDC Operations Manual applies to both.

Yes, as of now. However as CDC stated in their guidelines today: 

 

“In the final phase of the CSO, cruise ships operators with an approved COVID-19 Conditional Sailing Certificate application will be permitted to sail with passengers following the requirements of the CSO. CDC does not anticipate releasing any additional documents for Phase 4. Instead, CDC will be updating online documents to incorporate changes to quarantine, testing, color status, and lessons learned from simulated voyages.

 

That last line infers that they will be updating the CSO requirements. As of today they are contradicting their own current guidelines for fully vaccinated individuals. 

[smokeybandit]

2 hours ago, HBCcruiser said:

Agree. From the CDC website:

If you’ve been fully vaccinated:

• You can gather indoors with fully vaccinated people without wearing a mask or staying 6 feet apart.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html

 

 

"Unless you're on a cruise ship"

[smokeybandit]

44 minutes ago, jrapps said:

Oh I totally get that. I should have been clearer..I thought the purpose was to test ALL protocols that might be employed on a regular sailing. Wouldn't that also include making sure the kids clubs adhere to Covid protocols? Can you imagine doing a test sailing, passing with flying colors, and then having a revenue cruise go and have 30+ unvaccinated children have a Covid outbreak because they never proved out they can keep the kids safe? With kids not able to get vaccines, and less likely to adhere to social distancing in a kid club, I would think that is the biggest risk area on the ship.

 

You can argue kids may or may not be as vunerable to Covid, but they can still catch it and transmit it. If any area is going to have an outbreak and shut down the cruise, my money is on the kids club.

Your scenario is absurd.  My son's school doesn't require masks unless you're over age 10 (state rule) yet there hasn't been a single case of in-school transmission all school year (and we've had a normal in person school year), despite a couple cases outside of school.  

 

So I will argue that the odds of unvaccinated kids causing a cruise of vaccinated adults to be canceled is significantly lower than a sober person falling overboard.