New CDC guidelines for simulated cruises

[Jingerwoppy]

Will they accept simulated payment for a simulated cruise?

[Jeremiah1212]

1 hour ago, sandebeach said:

I was not on this webinar for travel agents, so I can not verify that this report is true:

Royal Caribbean's Senior Vice President, Sales, Trade Support and Service, Vicki Freed, told travel agents in a webinar that the CDC's plan was purposefully left short of requiring 100% vaccinated passengers so that kids could sail.

Celebrity said the same thing Tuesday. Everyone 18+ is vaccinated, up to 5% of the total capacity can be minors. Age limit, for now, is not changing to 12 or 16 based on the Pfizer vaccine. Minors are encouraged to be vaccinated but do not have to be. 

[sandebeach]

1 minute ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

Celebrity said the same thing Tuesday. Everyone 18+ is vaccinated, up to 5% of the total capacity can be minors. Age limit, for now, is not changing to 12 or 16 based on the Pfizer vaccine. Minors are encouraged to be vaccinated but do not have to be. 

I was thinking about how the cruise lines will actually monitor this when booking. They will probably need booking algorithms that calculate % of capacity that are adults, then % of kids not vaccinated, to stay under that 5% of the total capacity.

[smokeybandit]

But with that in mind, why 95%? Why not just say all adults?

 

Setting a cap like that just reeks of ulterior motives by the CDC

[smokeybandit]

Just now, sandebeach said:

I was thinking about how the cruise lines will actually monitor this when booking. They will probably need booking algorithms that calculate % of capacity that are adults, then % of kids not vaccinated, to stay under that 5% of the total capacity.

And what if you're at 94% for a cruise. Do you have to cancel the cruise? Pay a fine?

[sandebeach]

2 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

And what if you're at 94% for a cruise. Do you have to cancel the cruise? Pay a fine?

I think that you would need to under-book the unvaccinated (which would be the kids) so that you would retain that 95% vaccinated. Perhaps limit the sales of cabins that hold more than two? or more than three? 

[jrapps]

5 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

I was thinking about how the cruise lines will actually monitor this when booking. They will probably need booking algorithms that calculate % of capacity that are adults, then % of kids not vaccinated, to stay under that 5% of the total capacity.

And how do they accommodate cruises that have already been booked?

[sandebeach]

58 minutes ago, jrapps said:

Sorry, I meant IF they tried to restart in FL with a vaccine required. Of course, families that want to cruise can (and should) go on the Adventure, that is a great option. I only meant that when RCL tries to restart here in the US, they either need to allow un-vaccinated just like they do on the Adventure and that means test cruises, or go full vaccine required and basically sail with limited to no kids for the next few months on those sailings.

 

Neither of those are perfect options. I am just as curious as the next person to see what RCCL decides to do here.

Yeah, neither are perfect options. I want to cruise out of Florida (so we can drive to the port), so the Governor's ban on "vaccine passports" is throwing a monkey wrench into that option. 

[Jeremiah1212]

10 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

I was thinking about how the cruise lines will actually monitor this when booking. They will probably need booking algorithms that calculate % of capacity that are adults, then % of kids not vaccinated, to stay under that 5% of the total capacity.

Celebrity will have less of an issue but the way she put it was they will look at bookings, determine the count of guests under 18 and make adjustments or open it back up to minors until they hit the 5% mark.  

 

9 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

And what if you're at 94% for a cruise. Do you have to cancel the cruise? Pay a fine?

You couldn’t be at 94%. She said everyone 18+ must be vaccinated. They’ll either trim capacity or continue to let minors book until they hit the threshold. In theory these could run at 100% vaccinated. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Jeremiah1212

[sandebeach]

5 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

Celebrity will have less of an issue but the way she put it was they will look at bookings, determine the count of guests under 18 and make adjustments or open it back up to minors until the hit the 5% mark.  

 

You couldn’t be at 94%. She said everyone 18+ must be vaccinated. They’ll either trim capacity or continue to let minors book until they hit the threshold. In theory these could run at 100% vaccinated. 

That makes sense. But will Florida allow Celebrity to sail with that mandate that all adults are vaccinated? I just don't know what the Governor will do. 

[jrapps]

3 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

That makes sense. But will Florida allow Celebrity to sail with that mandate that all adults are vaccinated? I just don't know what the Governor will do. 

Honestly, he is going to do whatever he thinks helps him the most politically. If the lines push forward with requiring vaccines, he is going to have to decide if his political career is helped more by suing the cruise lines, or by legally letting it go but just keeping the story alive in the court of public opinion.

[mayleeman]

6 minutes ago, jrapps said:

or by legally letting it go but just keeping the story alive in the court of public opinion

 

Or by letting it go while (merely coincidentally) picking up sizeable campaign contributions and great praise from cruise CEOs.

[Tippyton]

I'm still sticking with the plan I've put forth before:

 

1.  Vaccinate crews.

2.  Provide vaccines to the poorer countries who are dying to get tourism back.

3.  Reserve a small percentage of berths for quarantine.

3. Cruise at your own risk.

[jrapps]

3 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

 

Or by letting it go while (merely coincidentally) picking up sizeable campaign contributions and great praise from cruise CEOs.

While I don't condone that, I will admit it is the only way for cruises to start quickly, meet all CDC vaccination guidelines, and not get sued.

 

Ah, gotta love the corrupt US political system.

[lobster1313]

48 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

But with that in mind, why 95%? Why not just say all adults?

 

Setting a cap like that just reeks of ulterior motives by the CDC

There are legitimate health reasons for some adults to not get the vaccine and their rights are protected by federal law so accommodations will be made for them.

Edited May 7, 2021 by regoodwinjr

[smokeybandit]

5 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

There are legitimate health reasons for some adults to not get the vaccine and their rights are protected by federal law so accommodations will be made for them.

Which is fine. But still, why a percentage? Those handful of people who have a legit reason not to get the vaccine would simply fall under a waiver program.

[lobster1313]

This may be something the CDC will have to explain in court.

[Biker19]

10 hours ago, harkinmr said:

I also saw what Del Rio's comments were on the guidance, but that is NOT why July is a no go for them.  

It's a combination of the 90 days and the CDC:

 

No chance now to put additional ships out by July

 

There's no opportunity to put additional vessels out by July, Del Rio told analysts during today's business update, because it takes 90 days to start up a ship. When NCLH came out with its full vaccination plan and asked CDC to waive the conditional sailing order on April 6, there was time to get ships in service by July. Now, a month later, CDC hasn't addressed that so it's not going to be possible. As a result, the company is focused on starting up its first six ships outside the US in July, August and September.

Perplexed, flabbergasted and outraged

Why cruising is being singled out from airlines and other businesses leaves Del Rio 'perplexed, flabbergasted and outraged ... We're willing to vaccinate every single person on a cruise ship. There isn't another venue on Earth, not a school, not a factory, not your office or apartment building, much less an entertainment venue like a casino, hotel or resort can make that claim. We will be the safest place on earth by definition.'

 

On top of the vaccination mandate are the Health Sail Panel protocols.

'That one-two punch is unbeatable,' Del Rio asserted. 'No one else has it, yet, the CDC continues continues to treat us differently, unfairly.' He added it's not like the CDC has managed the virus so well in the US, which ranks No. 1 for deaths and hospitalizations.

 

'Yet they pick on the cruise industry in the extreme.'

The NCLH chief expressed his hope that the twice-weekly calls with CDC will improve the situation, as he said happened with Phase 2A. During this afternoon's call, his company plans to communicate that the newly published Phase 2B and 2C are 'unacceptable in many areas.'

 

Del Rio pokes holes CDC cruise stance, Florida vaccine passport ban (seatrade-cruise.com)

[mayleeman]

5 hours ago, Biker19 said:

his company plans to communicate that the newly published Phase 2B and 2C are 'unacceptable in many areas.'

 

Well, that approach has worked well for the past year.

 

I wonder if anyone asked exactly what prevented them from getting ready while waiting for the CDC to grant the April request? 

[bouhunter]

5 hours ago, Biker19 said:

It's a combination of the 90 days and the CDC:

 

No chance now to put additional ships out by July

 

There's no opportunity to put additional vessels out by July, Del Rio told analysts during today's business update, because it takes 90 days to start up a ship. When NCLH came out with its full vaccination plan and asked CDC to waive the conditional sailing order on April 6, there was time to get ships in service by July. Now, a month later, CDC hasn't addressed that so it's not going to be possible. As a result, the company is focused on starting up its first six ships outside the US in July, August and September.

Perplexed, flabbergasted and outraged

Why cruising is being singled out from airlines and other businesses leaves Del Rio 'perplexed, flabbergasted and outraged ... We're willing to vaccinate every single person on a cruise ship. There isn't another venue on Earth, not a school, not a factory, not your office or apartment building, much less an entertainment venue like a casino, hotel or resort can make that claim. We will be the safest place on earth by definition.'

 

On top of the vaccination mandate are the Health Sail Panel protocols.

'That one-two punch is unbeatable,' Del Rio asserted. 'No one else has it, yet, the CDC continues continues to treat us differently, unfairly.' He added it's not like the CDC has managed the virus so well in the US, which ranks No. 1 for deaths and hospitalizations.

 

'Yet they pick on the cruise industry in the extreme.'

The NCLH chief expressed his hope that the twice-weekly calls with CDC will improve the situation, as he said happened with Phase 2A. During this afternoon's call, his company plans to communicate that the newly published Phase 2B and 2C are 'unacceptable in many areas.'

 

Del Rio pokes holes CDC cruise stance, Florida vaccine passport ban (seatrade-cruise.com)

So many good points here.  The CDC's obsession with the cruise industry is ridiculous, unwarranted and simply bizarre.  Sadly there is no end in sight.

[harkinmr]

5 hours ago, Biker19 said:

It's a combination of the 90 days and the CDC:

 

No chance now to put additional ships out by July

 

There's no opportunity to put additional vessels out by July, Del Rio told analysts during today's business update, because it takes 90 days to start up a ship. When NCLH came out with its full vaccination plan and asked CDC to waive the conditional sailing order on April 6, there was time to get ships in service by July. Now, a month later, CDC hasn't addressed that so it's not going to be possible. As a result, the company is focused on starting up its first six ships outside the US in July, August and September.

Perplexed, flabbergasted and outraged

Why cruising is being singled out from airlines and other businesses leaves Del Rio 'perplexed, flabbergasted and outraged ... We're willing to vaccinate every single person on a cruise ship. There isn't another venue on Earth, not a school, not a factory, not your office or apartment building, much less an entertainment venue like a casino, hotel or resort can make that claim. We will be the safest place on earth by definition.'

 

On top of the vaccination mandate are the Health Sail Panel protocols.

'That one-two punch is unbeatable,' Del Rio asserted. 'No one else has it, yet, the CDC continues continues to treat us differently, unfairly.' He added it's not like the CDC has managed the virus so well in the US, which ranks No. 1 for deaths and hospitalizations.

 

'Yet they pick on the cruise industry in the extreme.'

The NCLH chief expressed his hope that the twice-weekly calls with CDC will improve the situation, as he said happened with Phase 2A. During this afternoon's call, his company plans to communicate that the newly published Phase 2B and 2C are 'unacceptable in many areas.'

 

Del Rio pokes holes CDC cruise stance, Florida vaccine passport ban (seatrade-cruise.com)

The CDC has responded to Del Rio’s proposal.  He is being disingenuous. The CDC has said that vaccinated sailings can proceed under the framework. Del Rio’s proposal included a request that the framework be dropped. It clearly is not going to be. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by harkinmr

[smokeybandit]

3 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

The CDC has said that vaccinated sailings can proceed under the framework.

Yes, under the framework that was created in fall 2020 and makes cruise lines treat passengers like they aren't vaccinated or tested. Cruise lines know the framework will scare casual cruisers away permanently.

Edited May 7, 2021 by smokeybandit

[harkinmr]

5 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Yes, under the framework that was created in fall 2020 and makes cruise lines treat passengers like they aren't vaccinated or tested. Cruise lines know the framework will scare casual cruisers away permanently.

I look forward to hearing from folks going on the Royal sailings out of the Bahamas and Bermuda as to what the protocols are.  My guess is that they will include masks, social distancing and access restrictions.  NCL’s own protocols for 100% vaccinated sailings already include them.  We will see how vaccinated cruisers are “treated” by the cruise lines without the CDC involved.

[smokeybandit]

Just now, harkinmr said:

I look forward to hearing from folks going on the Royal sailings out of the Bahamas and Bermuda as to what the protocols are.  My guess is that they will include masks, social distancing and access restrictions.  NCL’s own protocols for 100% vaccinated sailings already include them.  We will see how vaccinated cruisers are “treated” by the cruise lines without the CDC involved.

 

I'm 100% sure that there will be restrictions on the foreign cruises, but also 100% sure they'll be manageable, not draconian like the CDC's

[cscurlock]

10 hours ago, sandebeach said:

Yeah, neither are perfect options. I want to cruise out of Florida (so we can drive to the port), so the Governor's ban on "vaccine passports" is throwing a monkey wrench into that option. 

Be prepared to wait a good long while to sail out of Florida.  This is one of those situations where making laws before there is an actual reason for them can come back and bite you.