New CDC guidelines for simulated cruises

[HBCcruiser]

1 minute ago, smokeybandit said:

"Unless you're on a cruise ship"

 
Exactly! 🙄 My guess is the CDC  will update phase 4 of the CSO to be more current, as they stated today.

 

“CDC does not anticipate releasing any additional documents for Phase 4. Instead, CDC will be updating online documents to incorporate changes to quarantine, testing, color status, and lessons learned from simulated voyages.”

 

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0505-conditional-sailing-order.html

[sandebeach]

42 minutes ago, Vera/Lee said:

I was thinking about my 8 day cruise in August when I read that. I hope it can sail as a 7 day.

I hope your cruise gets to go. My 8 day is over 4th of July and I doubt it will sail.  

[smokeybandit]

2 minutes ago, HBCcruiser said:

 
Exactly! 🙄 My guess is the CDC  will update phase 4 of the CSO to be more current, as they stated today.

 

“CDC does not anticipate releasing any additional documents for Phase 4. Instead, CDC will be updating online documents to incorporate changes to quarantine, testing, color status, and lessons learned from simulated voyages.”

 

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0505-conditional-sailing-order.html

"CDC acknowledges that it is not possible for cruising to be a zero-risk activity for spread of COVID-19. While cruising will always pose some risk of COVID-19 transmission, CDC is committed to ensuring that cruise ship passenger operations are conducted in a way that protects crew members, passengers, and port personnel, particularly with emerging COVID-19 variants of concern."

Yes, and they do this by making every passenger behave as if every other passenger has covid

[Ocean Boy]

5 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Your scenario is absurd.  My son's school doesn't require masks unless you're over age 10 (state rule) yet there hasn't been a single case of in-schoolYour transmission all school year (and we've had a normal in person school year), despite a couple cases outside of school.  

 

So I will argue that the odds of unvaccinated kids causing a cruise of vaccinated adults to be canceled is significantly lower than a sober person falling overboard.

Isn't that a perfect reason for the CDC to be concerned about the possibility?

[smokeybandit]

Just now, Ocean Boy said:

Isn't that a perfect reason for the CDC to be concerned about the possibility?

 

THe CDC does like to be absurd

[jrapps]

9 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Your scenario is absurd.  My son's school doesn't require masks unless you're over age 10 (state rule) yet there hasn't been a single case of in-school transmission all school year (and we've had a normal in person school year), despite a couple cases outside of school.  

 

So I will argue that the odds of unvaccinated kids causing a cruise of vaccinated adults to be canceled is significantly lower than a sober person falling overboard.

I find your scenario hard to believe. My wife is a teacher in a school where everyone wears masks all day, except recess and lunch. We have anywhere from 2-5 Covid infections per WEEK at the school. Its a running joke in our family now,  every time the principal sends a Covid infection email, we do shots. Of course, not all of those are in school transmissions, but there are plenty that are. When multiple non-related kids in a single classroom get infected, its a sure sign that it's in-school transmission.

 

Of course, the data at most schools is suppressed and not reported. My wife's school is one of the few good one's that chooses to publish all the data. She is good friends with other teachers and principals at other schools that privately admit to her that their schools have similar infection rates, but they send no emails to the parents, and submit zero infections to the county and state reporting.

 

When you hear that Covid doesn't spread in schools, its a load of bull.

 

So no my scenario is NOT absurd. When you put kids together in close quarters, in a kids club, all sneezing and touching the same things, no social distancing, pulling down or not bothering to wear masks, you will get infections. I'm not sayign they will infect their vaccinated parents. But kid to kid tranmission is a real possibility. If they can shut down an entire ship with 1.5% of the ship infected, 30 kids is enough.

 

 

[smokeybandit]

4 minutes ago, jrapps said:

When you hear that Covid doesn't spread in schools, its a load of bull.

 

Our superintendent is very up front about the data and strict about reporting and following the protocols . There's been no in-school transmission (for the entire district), despite a few dozen out of school transmissions throughout the school year.

 

And if you wear masks all day, your example really shows that masks don't work.

[jrapps]

1 minute ago, smokeybandit said:

And if you wear masks all day, your example really shows that masks don't work.

My point wasn't that masks don't work..it's that even when you require masks, kids are kids. Do you have any idea (even during Covid) how many parents view schools just as their personal babysitting. My wife's class has kids in there sick, sneezing, coughing, all the time. Kids, pull their masks down and pick their nose, then wipe it on their desk. The go to the bathroom and don't flush, much lass wash their hands. The pull their masks down and stick their tongues out as they pass in the halls.

 

I'm not blaming them...being a kid during Covid is HARD! But you can not just jump straight to the "masks don't work" argument when you are talking about 5-10 year olds. Especially one's that come in, rip their masks off, tell the teacher that their mom told them Covid isn't real, and then sneeze all over the class. (yep, turns our Covid was real and that same kid shut a whole class down! 7 infections in one class)

 

My guess is your district is smaller and better prepared than ours. You are lucky and if your data is accurate, then I am very jealous. But I think the scenario at my wife's school is more like the behavior I have seen in kids clubs. Parents will dump their kids in the club, even if they have a runny nose, so they can get some adult time. Kids will run around, and masks won't always stay on. It's reality. And it's a risk. I hope it is a manageable one. I am just surprised it one they aren't testing for in test cruises.

[smokeybandit]

You were the one that mentioned masks are required except when eating.

 

Fact is kids are much less likely to get covid, spread covid and have serious effects from covid.

Anyone fearing being on a cruise ship with kids is better served just staying home.

[jrapps]

3 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

You were the one that mentioned masks are required except when eating.

 

Fact is kids are much less likely to get covid, spread covid and have serious effects from covid.

Anyone fearing being on a cruise ship with kids is better served just staying home.

Alas, I fear you continue to miss my point. I don't fear being on a cruise with kids. I'm vaccinated.

 

I worry that the population on the ship least likely to have vaccines (kids) and most likely to ignore social distancing (kids) will be in kids clubs and IF there is an outbreak there, all it takes is 30 kids to shut down an entire cruise. Doesn't matter if the parents are safe or not. Hit 1.5% testing positive, the cruise gets shut down.

 

All I am saying is, shouldn't they test to make sure that their child protocols are safe? If you are right and kids don't transmit Covid, then the test will pass and we can all cruise. But why ignore testing?

[leen50]

1 hour ago, Vera/Lee said:

was thinking about my 8 day cruise in August when I read that. I hope it can sail as a 7 day.

Vera/Lee, we have a 9 day Explorer, 10/06/21 RT Galveston. If it is shortened to 7 days, the itinerary would change too much. hoping we get the option to cancel & we will choose a different cruise.

[mmcgann11]

I would volunteer to go, but I doubt RCG wants a journalist on board detailing the process. Still, it would be fascinating to be able to be there to report on how it went.

[smokeybandit]

10 hours ago, jrapps said:

Alas, I fear you continue to miss my point. I don't fear being on a cruise with kids. I'm vaccinated.

 

I worry that the population on the ship least likely to have vaccines (kids) and most likely to ignore social distancing (kids) will be in kids clubs and IF there is an outbreak there, all it takes is 30 kids to shut down an entire cruise. Doesn't matter if the parents are safe or not. Hit 1.5% testing positive, the cruise gets shut down.

 

All I am saying is, shouldn't they test to make sure that their child protocols are safe? If you are right and kids don't transmit Covid, then the test will pass and we can all cruise. But why ignore testing?

 

And a massive engine fire would get a cruise shut down, too. That doesn't mean it's likely to happen.

 

It seems you do fear cruising with kids because you think every kid on board will test positive.

Edited May 6, 2021 by smokeybandit

[HBCcruiser]

This is an interesting article on what buffet and food service will/might look like. 

https://emmacruises.com/cruise-ship-buffets-still-exist-heres-what-they-are-like-real-photos/

[smokeybandit]

There's zero reason for buffets to change, if you follow the science.

 

Of course the CDC isn't following the science.

[jrapps]

4 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 

And a massive engine fire would get a cruise shut down, too. That doesn't mean it's likely to happen.

 

It seems you do fear cruising with kids because you think every kid on board will test positive.

And you don't think the engine undergoes regular maintenance & inspection to make sure it's running properly? I don't understand the hesitance here to apply the same thoughts to everything. Test all protocols. Once. Don't be overburdensome, but show that your plan is safe. That is all I am suggesting. 

 

You are disagreeing just for the sake of disagreeing. It's not that you want to sail safely and you think my suggestion won't, you just want to oppose any idea that conflicts with yours.

[smokeybandit]

If you don't think it's safe, stay home. It's that simple.

[radarcruiser]

12 hours ago, jonbgd said:

It would be Scooby saying that and Shaggy telling him lets go get some scooby snacks and watch the entertainment🤯

You are correct.  Been a while since I watched them jump into the Mean Machine.  Hey maybe they could help us rip these masks off. 

[DCGuy64]

45 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

If you don't think it's safe, stay home. It's that simple.

Exactly, this entire forum has devolved into a neverending succession of "what if" scenarios. What if this happens, what if that happens? How will the cruise lines cope???

You could literally drive yourself insane worrying over every possible thing that could go wrong, even though they're statistically almost impossible. What good does it do to worry about literally everything? Like you said, if people don't think it's safe, they should just say the h*** home.

[sandebeach]

24 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Exactly, this entire forum has devolved into a neverending succession of "what if" scenarios. What if this happens, what if that happens? How will the cruise lines cope???

You could literally drive yourself insane worrying over every possible thing that could go wrong, even though they're statistically almost impossible. What good does it do to worry about literally everything? Like you said, if people don't think it's safe, they should just say the h*** home.

"Worrying over every little thing" is a description of much of the CDC's CSO. 

[scorpluvsdolphins]

14 hours ago, harkinmr said:

If that's the direction the university chooses to go, then that's their deal.  The Governor can insist all he wants that he can ban a vaccine requirement by the cruise lines.  He's wrong.  There is no lawyer worth his or her salt that has said he has a leg to stand on with the cruise lines, or any other business for that matter.  Actually, I hope he does continue to push it and the cruise lines either are forced to try to reopen the more difficult and more expensive way, or they just take their cruising ball elsewhere in the US where good sense reigns.

Where in the USA do you think “good sense reigns”?

Maybe you think CA or NY?

lol

[jrapps]

Sigh. There is a difference between not "worrying about every little thing" and sticking your head in the sand.

 

Look, it's obvious that we disagree on a lot of this. And that's fine. My thinking is very much aligned with how the CDC is proceeding. I wish there were other things they were testing on the test cruises, but I'm not losing any sleep over it. I am all for vaccines, masks, test cruises...whatever it takes to get sailing again. At some point in the future, the rules or restrictions may no longer align with what I want/feel/believe. And I'll be ok with that.

 

I for one am very glad that these guidelines for the simulate cruises are out. Even if you don't agree with the rules and guidelines, at last now they are out and everyone can decide for themselves if they agree or not with them, and if they feel comfortable or safe going on cruises with these.  People keep saying "If you don't feel safe, you can choose not to cruise." I agree 100% with that statement. But along that same thinking, I also agree that If you don't like the rules & restrictions, you can choose not cruise. I both feel safe and applaud the restrictions the CDC is imposing, so I will be cruising.

 

I am very much looking forward to Royal (and other cruise lines) coming out publicly with their plan to resume (be it vaccine or test cruises). The more info they tell us, the better we are able to make our vacation plans.

[DCGuy64]

54 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

"Worrying over every little thing" is a description of much of the CDC's CSO. 

True, but even they admitted recently that cruising will never carry a zero percent risk. Some people on here seem to think otherwise.

[DCGuy64]

Just now, jrapps said:

Sigh. There is a difference between not "worrying about every little thing" and sticking your head in the sand.

 

Look, it's obvious that we disagree on a lot of this. And that's fine. My thinking is very much aligned with how the CDC is proceeding. I wish there were other things they were testing on the test cruises, but I'm not losing any sleep over it. I am all for vaccines, masks, test cruises...whatever it takes to get sailing again. At some point in the future, the rules or restrictions may no longer align with what I want/feel/believe. And I'll be ok with that.

 

I for one am very glad that these guidelines for the simulate cruises are out. Even if you don't agree with the rules and guidelines, at last now they are out and everyone can decide for themselves if they agree or not with them, and if they feel comfortable or safe going on cruises with these.  People keep saying "If you don't feel safe, you can choose not to cruise." I agree 100% with that statement. But along that same thinking, I also agree that If you don't like the rules & restrictions, you can choose not cruise. I both feel safe and applaud the restrictions the CDC is imposing, so I will be cruising.

 

I am very much looking forward to Royal (and other cruise lines) coming out publicly with their plan to resume (be it vaccine or test cruises). The more info they tell us, the better we are able to make our vacation plans.

I wouldn't put you in this camp, but I would others: there are people on this site who ceaselessly talk about the dangers of having cruising resume, even though (as I stated a moment ago) the CDC acknowledges there will never be 0% risk on a cruise. And the CDC's recently announced guidelines don't call for 100% of passengers to be vaccinated, but 95%. So if the CDC is okay with a realistic scenario, I'm not sure why others think differently. Do they really know better than the CDC? Seems like it, sometimes.

[sandebeach]

2 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

True, but even they admitted recently that cruising will never carry a zero percent risk. Some people on here seem to think otherwise.

I agree, I can't think of any activities of daily life, conducted in a social system,  that carry zero percent risk. As for the test cruises, they are not really exhaustive tests, they are actually short cruises. They  can be 2-7 days, but per CDC: To fully test all procedures during a simulated voyage, CDC recommends a minimum voyage length of 3 days with 2 overnight stays.