Australia staying closed until mid 2022

[ShawninFL]

On 5/16/2021 at 5:20 PM, Host Jazzbeau said:

Great moves on your part!  I hope you have been as good [lucky] in the stock market.  😀

Well, actually, we did make some very nice investments in a company named Tesla before it sky rocketed. 

[PTC DAWG]

Good for Australia, I used to want to visit. 

[PTC DAWG]

On 5/16/2021 at 6:34 PM, lyndarra said:

I was watching a UK news report this morning where it was stated that most new cases and deaths were of people who were eligible for vaccination but had not taken up the opportunity. Can a UK CCer here verify this?

I haven’t heard a death count in many weeks in my area...mainly because it has been pretty much zero...nothing more to see..if it bleeds, it leads..

[barneyboy]

On 5/16/2021 at 11:34 PM, lyndarra said:

I was watching a UK news report this morning where it was stated that most new cases and deaths were of people who were eligible for vaccination but had not taken up the opportunity. Can a UK CCer here verify this?

Yes that’s what has been stated in the news. There is currently a push to try to have those vaccinated who have previously refused it. 

[TeeRick]

On 5/15/2021 at 7:10 PM, Host Jazzbeau said:

With their low rate of vaccinations, would you really want to go anyway?  Better for everyone to wait until Australia catches up.  [PS – I'm in the same boat as you, only with New Zealand:  cruise cancelled by Covid twice; not thinking about rebooking until after international cruising actually starts up there.]

Hopefully someone from Australia will comment that knows a lot more than me.  Australia has a relatively low population (about 26 million).  In comparison the population of the NYC metro area is over 20 million.  But of course area wise Australia is huge- but most of its population is concentrated in and around urban hubs.  So vaccination of a large amount of the population is likely doable quickly- if people are not resistant.  The country has given 3.7 million vaccine doses to date.  They can catch up pretty fast when vaccine is more readily available there.  They plan to continue to use the AZ vaccine for people over 50.  And they have made agreements with Pfizer for the mRNA vaccine for people under 50.  The government has purchased 20 million Pfizer doses and exercised an option recently for 20 million more doses.  If all goes well Australia could be open to vaccinated visitors much sooner than mid 2022 (my speculation).

 

https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines

 

https://www.health.gov.au/node/18777/australias-vaccine-agreements

[Lastdance]

2 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Hopefully someone from Australia will comment that knows a lot more than me.  Australia has a relatively low population (about 26 million).  In comparison the population of the NYC metro area is over 20 million.  But of course area wise Australia is huge- but most of its population is concentrated in and around urban hubs.  So vaccination of a large amount of the population is likely doable quickly- if people are not resistant.  The country has given 3.7 million vaccine doses to date.  They can catch up pretty fast when vaccine is more readily available there.  They plan to continue to use the AZ vaccine for people over 50.  And they have made agreements with Pfizer for the mRNA vaccine for people under 50.  The government has purchased 20 million Pfizer doses and exercised an option recently for 20 million more doses.  If all goes well Australia could be open to vaccinated visitors much sooner than mid 2022 (my speculation).

 

https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines

 

https://www.health.gov.au/node/18777/australias-vaccine-agreements

I read some of that information, and am hoping my 4/17/22 TP cruise will at least have a 50% chance of making.  I have hiked South Island, NZ with wonderful memories of beautiful scenery, experiences and making it to Milford Sound!  I want to enjoy Sydney, along with visiting places I have been before, but not by ship.  All my cruises planned for next year are b2b's and full of places I have visited before, along with a few ports that are new...my glass is always half full, but I accept "it is what it is."  I have a good friend who lives in Perth and she is quite positive about what is happening there, hoping that by 2022 it will be open with strict enforcement of regulations.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Lastdance

[Aloha 1]

On 5/16/2021 at 12:36 AM, Host Jazzbeau said:

@Blackduck59 I'm not sure that we're disagreeing about anything.  Because they are an island nation [this applies to Australia and New Zealand both], 

Australia is a continent not an island.

 

My take on this is they are only delaying the inevitable until they get their vax rate up significantly. They can lock down all they want but as we have seen in other countries, that does not work. Essentially, the Aussie and NZed governments have left their citizens totally vulnerable to Covid. Vaccines are the only way out for them now.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Aloha 1

[Fouremco]

This article from Britannica provides an interesting read on the reason that Australia is generally considered by most geographers to be a continent and not an island:

 

https://www.britannica.com/story/is-australia-an-island

[Host Jazzbeau]

Geographically, Australia is a continent.  But as it relates to this discussion about Covid practices, it is acting like an 'island nation.'  It's only because the country has 100% ocean borders that it was able to lock down so securely.

[grandgeezer]

1 hour ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Geographically, Australia is a continent.  But as it relates to this discussion about Covid practices, it is acting like an 'island nation.'  It's only because the country has 100% ocean borders that it was able to lock down so securely.

Why can’t it be both? By definition it is also an island, a mass of land surrounded on all four sides by water.

[onlyslightlymad]

2 hours ago, Aloha 1 said:

Australia is a continent not an island.

 

My take on this is they are only delaying the inevitable until they get their vax rate up significantly. They can lock down all they want but as we have seen in other countries, that does not work. Essentially, the Aussie and NZed governments have left their citizens totally vulnerable to Covid. Vaccines are the only way out for them now.

I live in NZ.  I am very grateful that the government had the common sense and the courage to lock down when they did.  Which did work as we have only had 26 deaths.  Consequently, we live lives which are much the same as before with the exception of foreign travel.  

Yes, we will eventually reopen our borders, acknowledging the risks and mitigating for them as much as possible.  This will involve a vaccination programme and, I would hope, a slow reopening to countries who have employed similar strategies of vaccination and public health measures.  I appreciate that you are annoyed that your holidays have been disrupted but I would imagine that you would be more upset about the loss of life that could have been avoided in your home countries.  I would happily give up my cruise which I have booked in January if I could save even one person's life.  

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

Why can’t it be both? By definition it is also an island, a mass of land surrounded on all four sides by water.

Read the article linked in post #58. 

[iancal]

I believe that Australia and New Zealand both handled covid in the right manner and  continue to do so. 

 

You cannot argue with the numbers.  They speak for themselves.     In terms of covid deaths per million population:

 

New Zealand:     5 deaths per million population

Australia:           34         "                   "

USA               1,811        "                    "

UK                  1,872        "                   "

Canada            660        "                   "

Edited May 21, 2021 by iancal

[grandgeezer]

3 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Read the article linked in post #58. 

That’s one opinion. The bottom line is by the definition I found, an island is a mass of land completely surrounded by water. Australia meets that definition in spades. So it must be an island continent. 

[Blackduck59]

I think it is either the world's largest Island but Greenland may have something to say about that or the worlds smallest continent which is what they taught when I was in school.

[Fouremco]

4 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

That’s one opinion. The bottom line is by the definition I found, an island is a mass of land completely surrounded by water. Australia meets that definition in spades. So it must be an island continent. 

I only provided one link, but if you Google "definition island" you'll find that the vast majority mirror the Britannica's definition.

 

Here's one from the National Geographic Society:

 

An island is a body of land surrounded by water. Continents are also surrounded by water, but because they are so big, they are not considered islands. Australia, the smallest continent, is more than three times the size of Greenland, the largest island.

 

 https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/island/

[Manchester is blue]

10 hours ago, onlyslightlymad said:

I live in NZ.  I am very grateful that the government had the common sense and the courage to lock down when they did.  Which did work as we have only had 26 deaths.  Consequently, we live lives which are much the same as before with the exception of foreign travel.  

Yes, we will eventually reopen our borders, acknowledging the risks and mitigating for them as much as possible.  This will involve a vaccination programme and, I would hope, a slow reopening to countries who have employed similar strategies of vaccination and public health measures.  I appreciate that you are annoyed that your holidays have been disrupted but I would imagine that you would be more upset about the loss of life that could have been avoided in your home countries.  I would happily give up my cruise which I have booked in January if I could save even one person's life.  

I agree entirely mate !

we are due to cruise to NZ in October and will be gutted when Celebrity cancel our cruise. However, we absolutely understand why Aus, and NZ are being cautious and am sorry that England were not quite so wise in administering our own response.

[TeeRick]

Australia also placed an order for 25 million Moderna doses by year end in addition to the Pfizer and AZ vaccines.  So back to the topic.  It seems there will be more than enough doses to vaccinate everybody in 2021 and early 2022.  So hopefully cruising and travel restrictions will be lifted by early 2022.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-57095035

[nocl]

14 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

That’s one opinion. The bottom line is by the definition I found, an island is a mass of land completely surrounded by water. Australia meets that definition in spades. So it must be an island continent. 

According to that definition North and South America is one very large island.  As is the Island of Europe, Asia and Africa.

[Aloha 1]

21 hours ago, onlyslightlymad said:

I live in NZ.  I am very grateful that the government had the common sense and the courage to lock down when they did.  Which did work as we have only had 26 deaths.  Consequently, we live lives which are much the same as before with the exception of foreign travel.  

Yes, we will eventually reopen our borders, acknowledging the risks and mitigating for them as much as possible.  This will involve a vaccination programme and, I would hope, a slow reopening to countries who have employed similar strategies of vaccination and public health measures.  I appreciate that you are annoyed that your holidays have been disrupted but I would imagine that you would be more upset about the loss of life that could have been avoided in your home countries.  I would happily give up my cruise which I have booked in January if I could save even one person's life.  

It has nothing to do with my travel although I will plan another trip eventually. My point is, yes, at the moment you have done well but unless you ramp up your vaccination program, any reopening WILL result in hospitals filling up since no one has developed any immunity. That is what I meant by delaying the inevitable. So, get your jabs. People deserve to see your beautiful country.

[Aloha 1]

15 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

I think it is either the world's largest Island but Greenland may have something to say about that or the worlds smallest continent which is what they taught when I was in school.

Ah, but Antartica is considered the 5th largest continent. Larger than Australia.

 

In order of land mass: Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Antartica, Europe, Australia.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Aloha 1

[coldcdn]

On 5/15/2021 at 6:10 PM, Host Jazzbeau said:

With their low rate of vaccinations, would you really want to go anyway?  Better for everyone to wait until Australia catches up.  [PS – I'm in the same boat as you, only with New Zealand:  cruise cancelled by Covid twice; not thinking about rebooking until after international cruising actually starts up there.]

Yes their vaccination roll-out is slow, but with only 909 total deaths in a country of over 20 million people, I think we can all agree they are doing very well for their population.  Extrapolated that would equate to about 15,000 total deaths in the US (instead of the actual 588,000+).

 

I hope they can ramp up and open to foreign tourists sooner than 2022!  I want to go cruising in November 2021 as planned!

 

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

4 hours ago, Aloha 1 said:

Ah, but Antartica is considered the 5th largest continent. Larger than Australia.

 

In order of land mass: Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Antartica, Europe, Australia.

But North and South America are continuous through Central America, so it ought to be one continent.  Maybe Pluto can become a continent, since it was stripped of planet status.  It has a Covid status of 0 [cases, deaths, and vaccinations]!  🤣

[onlyslightlymad]

9 hours ago, Aloha 1 said:

It has nothing to do with my travel although I will plan another trip eventually. My point is, yes, at the moment you have done well but unless you ramp up your vaccination program, any reopening WILL result in hospitals filling up since no one has developed any immunity. That is what I meant by delaying the inevitable. So, get your jabs. People deserve to see your beautiful country.

I don't think there is any intention to begin reopening borders until our citizenry are vaccinated and protected.  I will own that our vaccinations are proceeding slowly but we will get there.  As I said, I would imagine that there will be a slow creep of border reopening to other countries who are carrying a low risk ie high level of vaccination and a proven Covid risk mitigation system.  Our Minister of Finance has said as much.

[scottsla]

Australian here. There are actually two factors as to why we are so far behind on vaccination. The government did preorder huge amounts of Vaccine, unfortunately the 2 horses it backed in this were the Australian developed one which failed mid last year and of course AZ which due to blood clots is now only for those over 50 and even then people have an irrational fear of it.  Pfizer and Moderna had to be ordered back in march april to try and salvage this but of course we are now somewhat down the queue in receiving it so it isn't expected we will have any decent levels of vaccination till the end of the year.

 

Mid next year I think is a worse case scenario at this point for borders opening up, they are currently looking at early next year assuming vaccinations are high enough, but without vaccinations it just isn't happening as our economy is mostly going well and people are back to normal life now that Covid is basically eliminated here (with the exception of the occassional outbreak from quarantine).