DeSantis nearing compromise on cruise vaccination requirements

[Keys2Heaven]

3 hours ago, ouse456 said:

Here is a question about the Florida law that was passed. If a non-cruise company travel agent asked for proof of vaccination or if the cruise company asked the question through an out-of-state entity, would this circumvent the $5000 per passenger fine levied against the cruise company?

 

My wife and I were talking about this a couple of weeks ago and I told her that I suspect that Carnival's solution will be along these lines.

Christine Duffy indicated they were looking at "technology" that would allow one to upload their proof of vaccination. If I understand correctly, Carnival's website is hosted in Washington. So, the question would be if Carnival's health assessment will include an option to voluntarily upload proof of vaccination, would this violate any Florida law if the entity collecting this information were not located in the state of Florida?

Also, and this has probably already been mentioned, but the Texas legislation provides an exemption for business that are implementing Covid precautions in accordance with federal law. Now if Florida could only provide an exemption such as this.

And, lastly, the fine is up to $5000 per violation. I keep seeing $5000 thrown around as a hard number, but that's the maximum fine per violation. Not trying to stir the pot, but wanted to clarify that point.

[kdr69]

Another Cruise Line -MSC- has announced restart from Florida.  That makes at least 4 now. One could speculate that either they know something or they arent too concerned about not being able to ask for proof of vaccinations.  Guess we will know soon enough.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Joe817 said:

Hahahahahaha! That right there is FUNNYYYY ! Thanks B.O.! I needed that! 

You're welcome. Sorry I'm not as sneaky as a herd of lawyers whose jobs may depend on it.

[firefly333]

16 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

Another Cruise Line -MSC- has announced restart from Florida.  That makes at least 4 now. One could speculate that either they know something or they arent too concerned about not being able to ask for proof of vaccinations.  Guess we will know soon enough.

No offense to florida but I'm glad I live in texas.

[amcankid]

56 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

No offense to florida but I'm glad I live in texas.

As a proud Californian, a state that is always criticized but inevitably leads the way to change, I must say my daughter and her boyfriend just completed a 3 week round trip road trip from SF to San Antonio and she absolutely loved Texas. She loved the people, the cities, the food and the ambiance.

Wasn’t super crazy about the weather, but hey, in the San Francisco Bay Area we’re spoiled. We complain if it gets over 80 in the summer and if it gets below 55 in the Winter.

But just thought you’d like to know.

👏for Texas!!

 

[BoozinCroozin]

I am sure lawyers and legal teams can find loopholes in the law DeSantis signed banning asking for vaccines. I am not reading the law nor would I completely understand it if I did. Businesses are not permitted to ask for it, but businesses can levy price differentiation as shown by the recent concerts ($999 tickets but a $980 discount with proof of vaccine discount). The cruise lines could do the same thing. They can call it the Covid Testing Fee. It is $10,000 per cabin to be tested. The cruise lines ONLY accept testing from their facility. You can bypass the facility and testing fee with proof of vaccine as the coupon. Problem solved regardless of the law or judge's decision.

[Lee Cruiser]

6 hours ago, kdr69 said:

Another Cruise Line -MSC- has announced restart from Florida.  That makes at least 4 now. One could speculate that either they know something or they arent too concerned about not being able to ask for proof of vaccinations.  Guess we will know soon enough.

True, but at least two of those lines (RCI and MSC) aren't requiring the vaccine for passengers.

[dandeck]

13 hours ago, basil's mom said:

You are absolutely right, no one is forced to cruise. If it bothers you that people might be on the cruise that are unvaccinated the solution is very simple. Don’t go on that cruise.

 

it was my understanding that vaccination was supposed to keep you from getting the COVID-19 virus. If you were vaccinated why are you worried about the people who are not vaccinated?

 

I have several health problems and was told not to get vaccinated by my doctor. Why should I be kept from an activity I enjoy, along with other people who choose not to be vaccinated, when those who believe in vaccinations are already protected?

Sorry you can't be vaccinated.  However, anyone who has ever been on a cruise ship realizes why it is NOT the place for unvaccinated people.  The vaccine is 95% effective.  Not 100%.  The industry is on the brink.  They simply cannot risk unvaccinated folks aboard.  An outbreak on ANY ship would be a death nail for the industry at this point.   

[jedi bobs]

To  the unvacanated why are you so selfish wanting to go on a cruise that would require masks at all times? Don't tell me you simply won't were one, beecuse you will be debarked at the next port and BANNED from cruising on any carnival Corp ship ever again?

[Tippyton]

9 hours ago, basil's mom said:

if someone has had the virus their body develops natural immunity against the virus.  Therefore, if someone has had COVID-19 and decides not to get the vaccine what is the big deal?

Regular people asking simple questions our great and all-knowing Government cannot seem to answer and are too cowardly to even acknowledge.  We are the forgotten 20%.

[gsilva]

9 hours ago, basil's mom said:

Per the CDC:

” COVID-19 vaccines teach our immune system‘s how to recognize and fight the virus that causes COVID-19. Sometimes this process can cause symptoms, such as fever. The symptoms are normal and I signs at the body is building protection against the virus that causes COVID-19.

it typically takes a few weeks for the body to build immunity (protection against the virus that causes COVID-19) after vaccination.”

 

if someone has had the virus their body develops natural immunity against the virus.  Therefore, if someone has had COVID-19 and decides not to get the vaccine what is the big deal?

Yes why isn't there an option to have an antibody test to determine if you even need the vaccine. Putting powder on your tush 40 years ago may be the cause of your cancer today. Not ready to put a vaccine in my body that has gone through minimal testing. I caught covid before vaccine was available. I recovered and have been tested for antibodies which I still have. So until the CDC can prove without a doubt that thats not good enough...

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

9 hours ago, basil's mom said:

Perhaps you don’t know my doctors. My internist has not gotten the vaccine and no one in his family has. Several of my friends have been told by their doctors not to get the vaccine. I know many doctors and other medical professionals  who are against the vaccine.

...

 

There's a chance (just saying a chance!) that there's an underlying political component to their medical advice - even if they're not aware of it. I have a (Dr) colleague who has flags on his vehicle with his NRA stickers - and he's made it quite clear of all the things he's against ever since Obama was elected. Other than that, he's a skilled practitioner and I'd trust him with my life... I just would not take vaccine or political advice from him.  😉

 

Tom

[gsilva]

15 hours ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

This point has been brought up and discussed to death.

 

I am vaccinated - I am not concerned about unvaccinated people near me.

 

The concern is that if enough unvaxxed pax get on a cruise and a minor outbreak occurs, it will be a media circus and death knell for the cruise industry.

 

The other major detractor is that if masks are required and social distancing hugely enforced on cruises because of an unknown number of unvaxxed pax, such that everyone has to wear a mask, and everyone has to stay 6 ft apart in the shows, and no service at the bar, etc, then the whole experience will be miserable for everyone.  Right now, if all pax are fully vaxxed the social distancing stuff get hugely relaxed.  Hey, that rhymes!

Hahaha that does rhyme. See if you can get Carnival to work it into the Seuss parade.

[ProgRockCruiser]

10 hours ago, basil's mom said:

if someone has had the virus their body develops natural immunity against the virus.  Therefore, if someone has had COVID-19 and decides not to get the vaccine what is the big deal?

It is still early days in understanding the natural immunity gained from already having the disease vs the possible benefits of also getting the shot.  There is a good possibility the vaccine will act as a booster, helping to train your immune system a little better to further fight off the disease should you be exposed again.  

 

To put in another way, it is possible that having COVID-19 once is the equivalent of getting the first shot - two shots are ideal for many of the vaccines to ensure full immune system response.

 

Oh, and I know someone who thinks he has had COVID twice...so the first bout (which was more serious than the first) obviously didn't fully protect him.  (I have no idea why he didn't get tested the second time he had symptoms.)

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

8 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

...

 

Oh, and I know someone who thinks he has had COVID twice...so the first bout (which was more serious than the first) obviously didn't fully protect him.  (I have no idea why he didn't get tested the second time he had symptoms.)

 

And I know someone who swears she had it in October '19 (before the first case was documented in the US). She has never followed up with testing to see if she did have it, and it's also a reason why she says she's not getting the vaccine - never mind her 88 year old mother who lives with her... Oh boy...

 

Tom

[Christine Frances]

2 hours ago, Lee Cruiser said:

True, but at least two of those lines (RCI and MSC) aren't requiring the vaccine for passengers.

Well MSC might want to rethink their decision 

 

https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/cruise-ship-with-covid-positive-passenger-denied-entry-to-malta.877595?fbclid=IwAR3sQOyrzxsBM50nWfqfgwsnbP5-1Qyb3rVHy_rGhrpiyothZy_3VKM8ijM#.YL5MxOIzSwU.facebook

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

7 minutes ago, Christine Frances said:

Well MSC might want to rethink their decision 

 

https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/cruise-ship-with-covid-positive-passenger-denied-entry-to-malta.877595?fbclid=IwAR3sQOyrzxsBM50nWfqfgwsnbP5-1Qyb3rVHy_rGhrpiyothZy_3VKM8ijM#.YL5MxOIzSwU.facebook

 

I agree, they should. That said, I wonder if Caribbean ports will be as quick to deny a much needed income boost (cruise ship docking). Anyone know what the cases trend is (of late) across the Caribbean? I'd guess that most of those ports don't have a good number of their own citizens vaccinated.

 

Tom

[TNcruising02]

I read that the cruise ships are making certain areas of the ship quarantine areas for any positive cases.  The CDC is requiring the ships sailing out of the US to make arrangements for positive cases.  The cruise lines are working with the ports on how to deal with them.  All of this will be worked out ahead of the cruises.
 

Since vaccinated people can also test positive, it's good that the cruise lines are working this out ahead of the cruises.  The cruises out of the US will most likely not choose ports that will deny entry based on one positive covid case.

Edited June 8, 2021 by TNcruising02

[lazydayz]

1 hour ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

I agree, they should. That said, I wonder if Caribbean ports will be as quick to deny a much needed income boost (cruise ship docking). Anyone know what the cases trend is (of late) across the Caribbean? I'd guess that most of those ports don't have a good number of their own citizens vaccinated.

 

Tom

 

I think your guess is right.  We are scheduled for the Allure on August 15, picked it due to having Grand Suite and going to Labadee, and at the time, I thought cruising would certainly be back by then.  Yesterday received an e-mail from Royal, going to W. Caribbean instead because can't go to Haiti.  The only port that stayed the same was Coco Cay.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

I agree, they should. That said, I wonder if Caribbean ports will be as quick to deny a much needed income boost (cruise ship docking). Anyone know what the cases trend is (of late) across the Caribbean? I'd guess that most of those ports don't have a good number of their own citizens vaccinated.

 

Tom

 

[kbandwb]

Thanks for sharing!   Looks like vaccination rates in some of the Southern Caribbean are better than some of the US (including Florida).   It doesn't say if those are fully vaccinated or just first dose given but 700 out of 1000 is really good. I would anticipate infection rates in those countries to drop rapidly like they have  in the US (with poorer vaccination rates).   Makes me feel better about cruising Southern Caribbean next month (hopefully).

[jerseygirl3]

17 hours ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

This point has been brought up and discussed to death.

 

I am vaccinated - I am not concerned about unvaccinated people near me.

 

The concern is that if enough unvaxxed pax get on a cruise and a minor outbreak occurs, it will be a media circus and death knell for the cruise industry.

 

The other major detractor is that if masks are required and social distancing hugely enforced on cruises because of an unknown number of unvaxxed pax, such that everyone has to wear a mask, and everyone has to stay 6 ft apart in the shows, and no service at the bar, etc, then the whole experience will be miserable for everyone.  Right now, if all pax are fully vaxxed the social distancing stuff get hugely relaxed.  Hey, that rhymes!

So true. On our last cruise February 2020, 82 passengers (my husband being one of them) contracted Influenza A. My husband was vaccinated for flu, but obviously someone gave it to him (flu vaccine is far less effective than the Covid vaccine). It was a 12 night itinerary and he became ill on Day 9, do definitely did not bring it on the ship with him. Our ship had a long wait to disembark in St Kitts because they didn’t want to allow passengers onto their island with so many influenza cases (and Lord knows there were probably many more who didn’t report to the medical center to avoid being quarantined). Can you imagine if this was a Covid outbreak? We have 4 upcoming cruises booked with Royal Caribbean (none fromFlorida), but if Royal continues to follow DeSantis “rules” in other ports, we will cancel and no longer cruise. We’ve been vaccinated, but I don’t want to have to follow stringent Covid protocols because of those who refuse to vaccinate. 

[kdr69]

38 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

What? Haiti has no one vaccinated?

[BlerkOne]

29 minutes ago, kbandwb said:

Thanks for sharing!   Looks like vaccination rates in some of the Southern Caribbean are better than some of the US (including Florida).   It doesn't say if those are fully vaccinated or just first dose given but 700 out of 1000 is really good. I would anticipate infection rates in those countries to drop rapidly like they have  in the US (with poorer vaccination rates).   Makes me feel better about cruising Southern Caribbean next month (hopefully).

and Cayman Islands are still closed.

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

What? Haiti has no one vaccinated?

Nope, not a single one as of May.