Requirement to use only the cruise lines excursions due to COVID.

[navybankerteacher]

6 hours ago, SuiteTraveler said:

You clearly don't understand what a conspiracy theory is.    The definition of a conspiracy theory is "a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event."  There is no covert organization here nor is there any circumstance or event the cruise lines are responsible for here.  A business making a business decision that favors the business is NOT a conspiracy theory.

NO, This is what you said in the post to which I responded.  

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, SuiteTraveler said:

 

 

You can only call it "unfounded claims" if it was not really happening already.  But it is happening with MSC, Costa and now we're hearing Viking is planning to do this as well. 

 

Viking isn't planning to require shore-ex bubbles, it is already in place, as they are currently into their 3rd UK cruise.

 

Mentioning Viking also drives holes through your conspiracy argument, as for Viking, mandating a shore-ex bubble could be an additional cost factor. Since independent travel is not permitted, more pax will book the Included shore-ex that Viking provides in each port. Providing more seats on the Included tour,  increases their operational costs..

 

With Viking, it has nothing to do with increasing revenue, but meeting the requirements of the constantly changing requirements of the countries visited and setting a high standard of Health & Safety, which is significantly higher than the US CDC.

 

Personally, while we normally prefer independent exploring, or private tours, in these challenging times, even if fully vaccinated, we appreciate Viking's current standards, which are significantly higher than the US CDC requirements.

[sanger727]

On 6/5/2021 at 1:03 PM, SuiteTraveler said:

The known rate of people catching Covid-19 after being fully vaccinated per the CDC is less than .01 of 1 percent or 10,300 and those who had to be hospitalized or perished .003 of 1 percent or 3,000+. As of June 1, 2021 more than 135 million people in the US have been fully vaccinated with only 3016 breakthrough cases that required hospitalization or ended in death and in some cases those hospitalizations were for something else and Covid-19 was only found because the patient was tested as a matter of hospital policy.  The odds are incredibly slim that a fully vaccinated person at least 2 weeks out from final vaccination will catch Covid-19.  Also, in some of these breakthrough cases, it is believed the person caught Covid between shot 1 and shot 2 or shortly after shot 2 when they were not completely protected.  Therefore, forcing vaccinated people to only take cruise ship excursions is, in fact, a money grab.  From the perspective of the places involved, if they allow people to fly in by air to visit with proof of vaccination, there is no reason not to allow cruise passengers to visit with proof of vaccination.

most countries that allow tourists to fly in have additional requirements. Usually a Covid test within so many hours of landing, some sort of quarantine time, snd sometimes vaccinations get you out of those. So the cruise lines are trying to balance a lot of different requirements from different countries to get their passengers access to it without a fresh test and/or quarantine, 

 

https://www.celebritycruises.com/healthy-at-sea/st-maarten-travel-requirements
 

celebritys sailings out of st Martin allow you to tour independently in some ports and require excursions in some ports. I don’t think it could be more clear that this is driven by the ports. Not a money grab by celebrity.

[SuiteTraveler]

14 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Viking isn't planning to require shore-ex bubbles, it is already in place, as they are currently into their 3rd UK cruise.

 

Mentioning Viking also drives holes through your conspiracy argument, as for Viking, mandating a shore-ex bubble could be an additional cost factor. Since independent travel is not permitted, more pax will book the Included shore-ex that Viking provides in each port. Providing more seats on the Included tour,  increases their operational costs..

 

With Viking, it has nothing to do with increasing revenue, but meeting the requirements of the constantly changing requirements of the countries visited and setting a high standard of Health & Safety, which is significantly higher than the US CDC.

 

Personally, while we normally prefer independent exploring, or private tours, in these challenging times, even if fully vaccinated, we appreciate Viking's current standards, which are significantly higher than the US CDC requirements.

So Viking is giving away all their shore excursions for free?  Or are Viking cruisers paying for the Viking shore excursions?  Just trying to understand why you think these bubble shore excursions only increase operational costs.

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, SuiteTraveler said:

So Viking is giving away all their shore excursions for free?  Or are Viking cruisers paying for the Viking shore excursions?  Just trying to understand why you think these bubble shore excursions only increase operational costs.

 

Viking Ocean offer an included shore-ex in each port. Every pax is guaranteed a seat on the included tour. Since independent travel is not permitted, I fully expect more pax will book the included excursion, which Viking then has to purchase from the vendor.

 

On our last cruise, we probably booked the Included in about 25% of the ports, if we were required to maintain a bubble, we would have booked the included in at least 50 to 60% of the ports. A significant cost increase for the cruise line.

 

Is Viking giving tours away for free - nothing in this world is "Free". They address the cost in the cruise fare.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Heidi13

[ontheweb]

16 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Viking Ocean offer an included shore-ex in each port. Every pax is guaranteed a seat on the included tour. Since independent travel is not permitted, I fully expect more pax will book the included excursion, which Viking then has to purchase from the vendor.

 

On our last cruise, we probably booked the Included in about 25% of the ports, if we were required to maintain a bubble, we would have booked the included in at least 50 to 60% of the ports. A significant cost increase for the cruise line.

 

Is Viking giving tours away for free - nothing in this world is "Free". They address the cost in the cruise fare.

And I'm sure Viking has marked up those tours purchased from local vendors and then added into your cruise fare. As you said they are not in business to give away freebies.

[navybankerteacher]

22 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

…

 

Is Viking giving tours away for free - nothing in this world is "Free". …

Except, perhaps, the drinks on NCL cruises  — which so many posters insist on referring to as “free”.

[Heidi13]

23 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

And I'm sure Viking has marked up those tours purchased from local vendors and then added into your cruise fare. As you said they are not in business to give away freebies.

 

I suspect they have accurate figures on the percentage that book the Included shore-ex in each port and add those costs to the base fare, which is higher than mega ship lines.

[Heidi13]

17 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Except, perhaps, the drinks on NCL cruises  — which so many posters insist on referring to as “free”.

 

Haha, maybe they know how little each drink cost to make and they mean to say the drinks are "Almost free" to make.😁

 

 

[SuiteTraveler]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Viking Ocean offer an included shore-ex in each port. Every pax is guaranteed a seat on the included tour. Since independent travel is not permitted, I fully expect more pax will book the included excursion, which Viking then has to purchase from the vendor.

 

On our last cruise, we probably booked the Included in about 25% of the ports, if we were required to maintain a bubble, we would have booked the included in at least 50 to 60% of the ports. A significant cost increase for the cruise line.

 

Is Viking giving tours away for free - nothing in this world is "Free". They address the cost in the cruise fare.

Do you know if Viking is also selling the alternative tours they normally have that they charge for or are cruisers only being given the one option of the included bus tour?  And how do Viking fares compare now to a year ago?

[SuiteTraveler]

This is an interesting turn of events. RCCL has decided to allow anyone to sail on their ships regardless of if they have been vaccinated or not.  So the next question is what will happen?  Will they have to have cruises that only go to their "private island"?  Or will they wind up doing "bubble" tours like MSC and others?

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/royal-caribbean-cruises-unvaccinated-desantis-b1861352.html

 

 

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

 

I suspect they have accurate figures on the percentage that book the Included shore-ex in each port and add those costs to the base fare, which is higher than mega ship lines.

I would think that bubble excursions are something new, and it would be difficult for them to really have an accurate estimate of how many will take them until the practice will be in effect for some time.

[SuiteTraveler]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I would think that bubble excursions are something new, and it would be difficult for them to really have an accurate estimate of how many will take them until the practice will be in effect for some time.

Unlike most other ocean cruises, Viking offers 1 included shore excursion at each port and then they normally offer several other shore excursions at each port which you can pay for.  They are definitely offering the included shore excursion (it is usually a bus excursion.). I don't know if they are offering the other excursions as well.  But, right now,  passengers are not allowed to book their own excursion with a different company or simply go out on their own.

Edited June 7, 2021 by SuiteTraveler

[Heidi13]

6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I would think that bubble excursions are something new, and it would be difficult for them to really have an accurate estimate of how many will take them until the practice will be in effect for some time.

 

Apologies, as I was thinking pre-COVID. Yes, with the enforced bubble, I believe more will take the included shore-ex, so they probably don't have accurate data yet.

[Heidi13]

7 hours ago, SuiteTraveler said:

Do you know if Viking is also selling the alternative tours they normally have that they charge for or are cruisers only being given the one option of the included bus tour?  And how do Viking fares compare now to a year ago?

 

Affirmative, they still have optional tours available for purchase.

 

Our 2023 WC was comparible in price to the 2020 & 2021 WC's, but since it sold out quickly the price has now increased. A number of cruises have increased in price, but this is consistent practice. Unlike mainstream lines, many Viking cruises sell out over a year in advance, so price increases are not unusual from the initial offering

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Apologies, as I was thinking pre-COVID. Yes, with the enforced bubble, I believe more will take the included shore-ex, so they probably don't have accurate data yet.

No need to apologize. So much will be new, that it is sometimes hard to realize what changes might be needed.

[Hlitner]

Folks may also find themselves on a cruise where cruise line excursions are the only way off the ship in certain (but not all) ports on their cruise.  So, for example, the current (first) cruise of the Celebrity Millenium goes to three ports (Barbados, Aruba and Curacao) and only Barbados requires the use of a cruise line "bubble" excursion.

 

Hank

[iancal]

Absolute deal breaker for us.  Just one more reason why we will not book a cruise today.  We could  book, make final payment based upon prevailing rules, then have rules change just prior to blast off  to include no stop or stop but only with cruise line excursion. 

 

 This is not what we would ever sign up for.  

 

Happier doing our own thing with independent land travel until this business, including on board environment, is ironed out to the point of a higher degree of certainty.  If we want to gamble we could go to Vegas.

[ldubs]

20 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Folks may also find themselves on a cruise where cruise line excursions are the only way off the ship in certain (but not all) ports on their cruise.  So, for example, the current (first) cruise of the Celebrity Millenium goes to three ports (Barbados, Aruba and Curacao) and only Barbados requires the use of a cruise line "bubble" excursion.

 

Hank

 

While not preferred I think we can accept ship-only excursions, at least for the time being.  I am more concerned about restrictions that would impact the on-board experience.  

 

[Hlitner]

I gave a smile to iancal's last post about gambling with travel.  And it is so darn true.  These days any kind of travel (including land travel) involves more risk then we have ever experienced in over fifty years of extensive travel.  When it comes to travel nothing seems to be definite.  DW and I have always been somewhat adventurous and independent with our travel so we are playing the game (for both cruises and land) and it is challenging and sometimes very frustrating.  We are finding that we are willing to take some chances and even pay more then is our norm in order to get back to the cruise game.  The recent article here on CC about the first cruise on the Celebrity Millennium talked about some teary eyed folks as they boarded (not to mention cheering and applauding crew) and this is the icing on the cake for those of us who love the cruise world.  

 

But folks need to be forewarned that nothing is business as usual in the travel world.  If you do not want to deal with the uncertainties and anxiety that exist around the entire travel industry it is probably wise to stay home (or close to home) for the next year (or two).

 

Hank 

[iancal]

We want to fly directly to Greece and spend five our six weeks in late Sept/Oct. doing our own thing.  Cruising...yes but on ferries between the various islands.

 

It is preferable to us because if the situation changes we can pull up stakes, go somewhere else, return home with no issues.  On a dime.   This is our typical travel regime...booking a few days in advance at the most.  So doing this in preference of a cruise is just more of the same for us.  Not a hardship.  Not to mention that for us it is less expensive and more rewarding.

 

 Not interested in being stuck on a Med cruise with no or few stops, managed excursions, or an on board environment that we would otherwise not have signed up for,  etc.

 

 Does not matter if the current situation lasts for 2 months, six months or 18 months.  There are always ways to skate around by selecting alternate travel options, products, etc.

Edited June 9, 2021 by iancal

[Hlitner]

17 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

While not preferred I think we can accept ship-only excursions, at least for the time being.  I am more concerned about restrictions that would impact the on-board experience.  

 

Me too.  We felt relatively comfortable booking two Seabourn cruises (July and Oct) since they are both outside the control of the CDC and Seabourn has a 100% mandatory vaccination policy for all (passengers and crew) onboard.  I suspect there will be few onboard restrictions (I could be wrong) on those smaller vessels.  We actually cancelled an October MSC cruise (out of Miami) and changed to a Seabourn cruise (out of Barbados) because of our concern about CDC imposed restrictions (which are likely to change with the tides).  

 

Just reading the cruise news the past few days has me laughing as we see RCI, Celebrity, Carnival, etc. changing their policies nearly every day in an attempt to deal with the CDC and new State Laws.  And now those lines talk about different sets of onboard rules depending on whether somebody is vaccinated or not vaccinated!  Argh!  

 

Hank

[iancal]

Between self serving politicians, greatly slowing vaccination rates,  and the cruise lines themselves, this entire cruise business from NA is turning into one big gong show. 

 

A huge turn off for us.  

Edited June 9, 2021 by iancal

[Hlitner]

9 hours ago, iancal said:

We want to fly directly to Greece and spend five our six weeks in late Sept/Oct. doing our own thing.  Cruising...yes but on ferries between the various islands.

 

It is preferable to us because if the situation changes we can pull up stakes, go somewhere else, return home with no issues.  On a dime.   This is our typical travel regime...booking a few days in advance at the most.  So doing this in preference of a cruise is just more of the same for us.  Not a hardship.  Not to mention that for us it is less expensive and more rewarding.

 

 Not interested in being stuck on a Med cruise with no or few stops, managed excursions, or an on board environment that we would otherwise not have signed up for,  etc.

 

 Does not matter if the current situation lasts for 2 months, six months or 18 months.  There are always ways to skate around by selecting alternate travel options, products, etc.

We debated the same strategy as we are very comfy doing our own thing anywhere in Western Europe.  But we thought that Seabourn had some pretty decent pricing and enjoy the convenience and relaxation we get being an a cruise.  But then we thought about it and added another week where we will do some island hopping (primarily to Naxos and Paros).  Just one caution about island hopping this summer/fall,  Reservations are booming on the various islands (especially the more popular ones) and those who wait are going to find slim pickings among the decent hotels/inns.  Rental cars could also become a problem.   When we booked hotels more then a month ago some of the better options were already booked.

 

Hank

[iancal]

On 6/9/2021 at 7:51 PM, Hlitner said:

We debated the same strategy as we are very comfy doing our own thing anywhere in Western Europe.  But we thought that Seabourn had some pretty decent pricing and enjoy the convenience and relaxation we get being an a cruise.  But then we thought about it and added another week where we will do some island hopping (primarily to Naxos and Paros).  Just one caution about island hopping this summer/fall,  Reservations are booming on the various islands (especially the more popular ones) and those who wait are going to find slim pickings among the decent hotels/inns.  Rental cars could also become a problem.   When we booked hotels more then a month ago some of the better options were already booked.

 

Hank

We monitor the TUI UK customer facebook page.

 

For those who are not familiar, TUI is by far the largest travel provider in the world.  Hotels, cruises, AI. packages, safaris, you name it.  We buy travel products, hotels, AI's, through TUI because they are often more competitive than NA or direct sites.  Our last three Mexico AI stays were purchased through TUI.

 

This week they are doing an amazing number of UK package holiday cancellations to various Europe destinations included some Greek Ilslands.  Sometimes only a 48 hr. notice to the customer.   We have nothing booked but we do use this as partial gauge to understand what is really going on in Europe vis a vis travel.  It is very difficult to get reliable, comprehensive, and up to date data from NA media or vendors.   Lots of complaints on the site but if you sift through you can see what the trends are.