Revamped Tier Levels Coming Soon

[vjmatty]

16 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Good point.  Using an airline example, status is earned each year.  I was pretty much Super Elite with AC for 10 years and then the final year was like a swan song when I retired (you get most of the benefit year after earning it).  Used up FF miles when I could still book with priority.  Lost the status with flights cut back to personal only. 

 

Perhaps the cruise lines should require at least one voyage of a week or 10 nights each calendar year in order to maintain current status , or you drop down one level.  Next year, same thing.  That way, a customer doesn't go away for 5/6 years and then come back sailing still as Elite, for example.  Something along this line would not be unreasonable.  Same thing happens with hotel status.  A cruise ship is like a floating hotel in many respects.

 

ETA - Perhaps one or more cruise operators are thinking this, but waiting for the other guy to make the first move.

Given that most Platinum and Elites already sail rather frequently, many of them (myself included) several times per year, I'm not sure this requirement would make much difference.  It's what got passengers to those levels in the first place so most want to reap what they've sown 😉

[Daniel A]

2 minutes ago, vjmatty said:

It's not about jumping ship over the loss of benefits.  It is about Princess, by removing or watering down benefits, leveling the playing field to its disadvantage by cutting its own competitive edge as it relates to past passengers. This removing of benefits is also combined with what I call the "Oasization" of the line, meaning bigger and bigger ships sailing more restrictive itineraries which past cruisers have already sailed ad nauseum.  These two trends are going to cause their customer base to shop more broadly and compare with other cruise lines. So, rather than leaving Princess in a huff and slamming the door as you leave, it's more like opening more doors before walking through the one offered by Princess, and possibly finding something better. 

Ginny-

 

Many of these people who are saying they'll never sail Princess again because they lost some free internet minutes and a very, very few who lost some additional OBC are still going to sail on Princess because it's familiar.  As people age, they tend to want to stay with familiar surroundings and not take chances.  That said, do you really think that replacing a few complimentary internet minutes will cause these people to continue to sail on "bigger and bigger ships sailing more restrictive itineraries which past cruisers have already sailed ad nauseum."  I don't think so, and I would have expected that Princess did their market research prior to this update of Captain's Circle benefits and don't think so either.

 

No matter what, Princess needs to tighten its belt after a loss of revenue for 15 months while continuing to maintain their ships during that time.  From now until the end of 2022, many of the cruise fares are going to be from FCC's which means they are in effect free sailings as the fare that was originally paid has already been spent.  The revamp of the Captain's Circle benefits is designed to get these higher tier cruisers to spend more money on board by offering some discounts for using their products.  The cruise lines need the money and cannot afford a lot of freebies right now.  I don't think this will be the only post-pandemic change we will experience in our lives, let's just hope that the negative changes are only temporary.

[CruisinFinsUp]

58 minutes ago, vjmatty said:

It's not about jumping ship over the loss of benefits.  It is about Princess, by removing or watering down benefits, leveling the playing field to its disadvantage by cutting its own competitive edge as it relates to past passengers. This removing of benefits is also combined with what I call the "Oasization" of the line, meaning bigger and bigger ships sailing more restrictive itineraries which past cruisers have already sailed ad nauseum.  These two trends are going to cause their customer base to shop more broadly and compare with other cruise lines. So, rather than leaving Princess in a huff and slamming the door as you leave, it's more like opening more doors before walking through the one offered by Princess, and possibly finding something better. 

 

Every mainstream cruise line will have a similar "bigger is better" approach due to the economics of economies of scale.   Small ships don't pay the bills. 
 

Yes, compare and cruise elsewhere, but know that amongst the bigger lines, the economic model is similar.  

[cruzsnooze]

I'm disappointed Princess didn't make a higher tier with maybe 25 or 50 cruises. That tier should be rewarded because it's a whole lot of sailings.

 Princess makes about 50% of it's profit from cabin fares and the rest from other sources like drinks, casino, excursions. 

  When perks are taken out of the equation it's advantageous to look at different cruise lines doing the same or similar itinerary, no loyalty required.

[Daniel A]

15 minutes ago, cruzsnooze said:

 When perks are taken out of the equation it's advantageous to look at different cruise lines doing the same or similar itinerary, no loyalty required.

It is always advantageous to look at different cruise lines doing the same or similar itinerary, no loyalty required.

[cruzsnooze]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

It is always advantageous to look at different cruise lines doing the same or similar itinerary, no loyalty required.

I agree but it doesn't usually work that way. This new lack of loyalty perks is a boost to do it and more often.  I just booked a 5 night Cabo cruise out of San Pedro on NCL and will compare the differences and similarities. 

Edited July 4, 2021 by cruzsnooze

[vjmatty]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

Ginny-

 

Many of these people who are saying they'll never sail Princess again because they lost some free internet minutes and a very, very few who lost some additional OBC are still going to sail on Princess because it's familiar.  As people age, they tend to want to stay with familiar surroundings and not take chances.  That said, do you really think that replacing a few complimentary internet minutes will cause these people to continue to sail on "bigger and bigger ships sailing more restrictive itineraries which past cruisers have already sailed ad nauseum."  I don't think so, and I would have expected that Princess did their market research prior to this update of Captain's Circle benefits and don't think so either.

 

No matter what, Princess needs to tighten its belt after a loss of revenue for 15 months while continuing to maintain their ships during that time.  From now until the end of 2022, many of the cruise fares are going to be from FCC's which means they are in effect free sailings as the fare that was originally paid has already been spent.  The revamp of the Captain's Circle benefits is designed to get these higher tier cruisers to spend more money on board by offering some discounts for using their products.  The cruise lines need the money and cannot afford a lot of freebies right now.  I don't think this will be the only post-pandemic change we will experience in our lives, let's just hope that the negative changes are only temporary.

Speaking as one of those “aging” cruisers I can tell you a lot of us have experience  with other lines from the occasional sailings we’ve done with them. For example on Celebrity I’ve  found higher quality staterooms, a separate vegetarian menu in the MDR and a buffet with a key on each item showing all of the dietary categories such as vegetarian for myself and GF for hubby. And that’s just what immediately comes to mind.  These considerations already are a noticeable improvement before Princess even starts watering down loyalty status, so it’s easy to start thinking about expanding horizons independently from the latest revamp. Obviously though they weren’t game changing enough for me to abandon Princess, but who knows what factor will be enough to tip the scale in favor of leaving? 

 

Granted, each of the loyalty perks on Princess separate from each other, like internet or loyalty OBC, might not amount to much in making one change cruise lines, however when enough changes start chipping away at that “familiarity“ you refer to, Celebrity or other cruise lines might start looking better in the big picture.

 

Cruise lines like any other business make cost and benefit decisions based on financial and efficiency concerns, it’s true, but so do customers. I’m sure the bean counters have thought of every angle in making these decisions, but I wonder how many have ever sailed on a cruise ship let alone achieved loyalty status.

 

BTW I’m neither defending nor criticizing Princess, just talking about human nature from a business perspective, and saying their passenger base may be thinking about their cruising future a little more comprehensively than just “I’m leaving over lost minutes”.  

[maggie777]

5 minutes ago, vjmatty said:

Speaking as one of those “aging” cruisers I can tell you a lot of us have experience  with other lines from the occasional sailings we’ve done with them. For example on Celebrity I’ve  found higher quality staterooms, a separate vegetarian menu in the MDR and a buffet with a key on each item showing all of the dietary categories such as vegetarian for myself and GF for hubby. And that’s just what immediately comes to mind.  These considerations already are a noticeable improvement before Princess even starts watering down loyalty status, so it’s easy to start thinking about expanding horizons independently from the latest revamp. Obviously though they weren’t game changing enough for me to abandon Princess, but who knows what factor will be enough to tip the scale in favor of leaving? 

 

Granted, each of the loyalty perks on Princess separate from each other, like internet or loyalty OBC, might not amount to much in making one change cruise lines, however when enough changes start chipping away at that “familiarity“ you refer to, Celebrity or other cruise lines might start looking better in the big picture.

 

Cruise lines like any other business make cost and benefit decisions based on financial and efficiency concerns, it’s true, but so do customers. I’m sure the bean counters have thought of every angle in making these decisions, but I wonder how many have ever sailed on a cruise ship let alone achieved loyalty status.

 

BTW I’m neither defending nor criticizing Princess, just talking about human nature from a business perspective, and saying their passenger base may be thinking about their cruising future a little more comprehensively than just “I’m leaving over lost minutes”.  

They are definitely chipping away at my loyalty.

[memoak]

55 minutes ago, cruzsnooze said:

I agree but it doesn't usually work that way. This new lack of loyalty perks is a boost to do it and more often.  I just booked a 5 night Cabo cruise out of San Pedro on NCL and will compare the differences and similarities. 

One thing you will find are some of the smallest cabins I have ever experienced 

[suzyed]

23 hours ago, LACruiser88 said:

We were also disappointed that Princess did not do a more comprehensive overhaul of their CC program.  There are too many Elites and there should be more separation between the Platinum and Elite levels.  Here come the Haters!

It may need to be overhauled but I don't really think this was the time to do so.  Enough change on the horizon and I think there is plenty of time to make changes to the CC.

Edited July 4, 2021 by suzyed

[suzyed]

21 hours ago, abbydancer said:

I just returned from a Gray Line/ Princess / Holland Alaska tour.  It was a great tour, but the mask enforcement was a joke.  It's a clear mandate that masks are required on buses.  First thing our driver says is she doesn't care if we wear them or not.  When we were on the tour through Denali park (not run by them) it was.  I'm getting a covid test later today even though I'm fully vaccinated because of the lack of masks.

Let us know how that works out if you care to share.

[nocl]

3 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

I'm disappointed Princess didn't make a higher tier with maybe 25 or 50 cruises. That tier should be rewarded because it's a whole lot of sailings.

 Princess makes about 50% of it's profit from cabin fares and the rest from other sources like drinks, casino, excursions. 

  When perks are taken out of the equation it's advantageous to look at different cruise lines doing the same or similar itinerary, no loyalty required.

Actually Princess gets 70-75% of its revenue from fares and 25-30% from on board spend.

 

Since profit is determined by total revenue - total expenses   any reduction in revenue results in reduced profit.

 

It is always worthwhile to look at different cruise lines. 

[suzyed]

21 hours ago, caribill said:

 

That would certain eliminate all the elites since no one took a Princess cruise in over a year.

 

One cruise line did have that requirement to retain status. I do not remember which one it was and do not know if they still have it.

MSC had a requirement that to keep a status you have to cruise I think it is at least every three years.  Of course they match status levels with other cruise lines so I think it would be easy to get around the 3 year rule.

 

[vjmatty]

10 minutes ago, nocl said:

Actually Princess gets 70-75% of its revenue from fares and 25-30% from on board spend.

Not to mention, if you don’t get people booking cabins in the first place, there won’t be onboard spending. 

Edited July 4, 2021 by vjmatty

[abbydancer2003]

32 minutes ago, suzyed said:

Let us know how that works out if you care to share.

Sure.  It will probably be Tuesday or Wednesday (usually takes 24 -48 hours, but not sure this because of the holiday).

[suzyed]

6 hours ago, cruisintoddler said:

 

THIS! 
 

We can argue about the decision being wrong, but the pricing model that is currently in place is that the cabin price DOES NOT BREAK EVEN.  On board spending is where profits are made.   If you don't spend onboard, Princess doesn't want you.  The loyalty rewards of xx% off a purchase PROVE this.  
 

Demand is greater than supply.  Cruising is the new thing.  more and more big ships are being built.  The bigger the better in terms of economies of scale and profits.  They believe that they can fill the ships with new cruisers that spend onboard.   Repeat cruisers who spend nothing are currently detrimental to the bottom line under the current pricing model.    Again, we can argue that we disagree, but THIS IS THE CURRENT MODEL.  And all departments are acting within that model.  
 

I'm sure the "plus" fare is priced in a way that it meets minimum profitability.  
 

I read an article yesterday - marketing study showed cruisers don't think about what they've ALREADY SPENT before the trip when they are onboard. So if drinks, tips, wifi are paid already, they'll be more inclined to spend more onboard without concern ---> hence the Plus fare! 
 

Agree or not, this is the current economic model.  Cabin only fares would be much higher if the economic model were different.  
 

 

Not sure about all of you guys but we NEVER spend NOTHING on a cruise and we have the hefty invoices to prove it!  And honestly it is no larger or smaller than it was at Blue, Ruby, Platinum or Elite levels.  Now with Princess Plus we are just putting out that money BEFORE the cruise by purchasing the PLUS.  So my bill may be smaller at the end but it has absolutely nothing to do with whatever my status is.
Further, we are stock holders so we are interested in seeing them make a profit and continuing to sail.
We are not Princess cheerleaders...we have status on several other cruise lines.  We sail Princess mostly because we like the itineraries and price point (even though they have increased for legit reasons) and yes, we enjoy the perks that come with our status but status is not our primary reason by any stretch.

Edited July 4, 2021 by suzyed

[capriccio]

25 minutes ago, suzyed said:

MSC had a requirement that to keep a status you have to cruise I think it is at least every three years.  Of course they match status levels with other cruise lines so I think it would be easy to get around the 3 year rule.

 

Not unexpectedly, they don't make it easy.  You are allowed one status match only.  As I understood it, you can't reapply for MSC status match with another source (cruise line or hotel loyalty) if you don't cruise in the 3 year period. 

[suzyed]

15 minutes ago, abbydancer said:

Sure.  It will probably be Tuesday or Wednesday (usually takes 24 -48 hours, but not sure this because of the holiday).

The potential issue will be...your chances of getting covid again should be slim(since the vaccine is approx. 96% depending on which one you got) but your chances of a positive test will be much more.  If, because of exposure with unmasked people, you do have some virus particles in your nose, you could possibly  test positive without actually contracting the virus.

[suzyed]

5 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Ginny-

 

Many of these people who are saying they'll never sail Princess again because they lost some free internet minutes and a very, very few who lost some additional OBC are still going to sail on Princess because it's familiar.  As people age, they tend to want to stay with familiar surroundings and not take chances.  That said, do you really think that replacing a few complimentary internet minutes will cause these people to continue to sail on "bigger and bigger ships sailing more restrictive itineraries which past cruisers have already sailed ad nauseum."  I don't think so, and I would have expected that Princess did their market research prior to this update of Captain's Circle benefits and don't think so either.

 

No matter what, Princess needs to tighten its belt after a loss of revenue for 15 months while continuing to maintain their ships during that time.  From now until the end of 2022, many of the cruise fares are going to be from FCC's which means they are in effect free sailings as the fare that was originally paid has already been spent.  The revamp of the Captain's Circle benefits is designed to get these higher tier cruisers to spend more money on board by offering some discounts for using their products.  The cruise lines need the money and cannot afford a lot of freebies right now.  I don't think this will be the only post-pandemic change we will experience in our lives, let's just hope that the negative changes are only temporary.

Exactly!  Our next sailing (25 days) will be paid for with FCCs.  I think fair compensation for the 18 days we missed on our last sailing.  But we still booked 2 more cruises for later in the year.   We still enjoy Princess and will continue to sail as long as we feel we are getting value and good experiences  for our $$$$.  

 

[suzyed]

3 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

I agree but it doesn't usually work that way. This new lack of loyalty perks is a boost to do it and more often.  I just booked a 5 night Cabo cruise out of San Pedro on NCL and will compare the differences and similarities. 

I would imagine the other cruise lines will be doing some "revamping" themselves.  Since we achieved Diamond on RCI, they have added two more tiers above that. 
I do find it interesting but not surprising that most of the folks looking for a revamp of  CC are not Elites?

[abbydancer2003]

29 minutes ago, suzyed said:

The potential issue will be...your chances of getting covid again should be slim(since the vaccine is approx. 96% depending on which one you got) but your chances of a positive test will be much more.  If, because of exposure with unmasked people, you do have some virus particles in your nose, you could possibly  test positive without actually contracting the virus.

I've always wondered if some of the "break through" cases were actually just that.  I guess if it does come back positive, I'll retest next week, and see if it's back to negative.

[KeepCalmBearOn]

8 hours ago, Daniel A said:

It is always advantageous to look at different cruise lines doing the same or similar itinerary, no loyalty required.

 

7 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

I agree but it doesn't usually work that way. This new lack of loyalty perks is a boost to do it and more often.  I just booked a 5 night Cabo cruise out of San Pedro on NCL and will compare the differences and similarities. 

 

There is no "lack of loyalty perks", you just don't like what they are.

[PescadoAmarillo]

11 hours ago, cruisintoddler said:

 

THIS! 
 

We can argue about the decision being wrong, but the pricing model that is currently in place is that the cabin price DOES NOT BREAK EVEN.  On board spending is where profits are made.   If you don't spend onboard, Princess doesn't want you.  The loyalty rewards of xx% off a purchase PROVE this.  
 

Demand is greater than supply.  Cruising is the new thing.  more and more big ships are being built.  The bigger the better in terms of economies of scale and profits.  They believe that they can fill the ships with new cruisers that spend onboard.   Repeat cruisers who spend nothing are currently detrimental to the bottom line under the current pricing model.    Again, we can argue that we disagree, but THIS IS THE CURRENT MODEL.  And all departments are acting within that model.  

And we will again see Princess offering heavy discounting to fill cabins after final payment date. Although cabin fares alone are not enough to provide the returns Princess is looking for, an empty cabin contributes nothing to the bottom line. 

[Daniel A]

13 hours ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

And we will again see Princess offering heavy discounting to fill cabins after final payment date. Although cabin fares alone are not enough to provide the returns Princess is looking for, an empty cabin contributes nothing to the bottom line. 

I just never looked, but is Princess only doing reduced capacity sailings during their restart?  It may take a while before you start seeing discounting, move over and upsells but I'm certainly looking forward to the day when we see them again!  🙂 

[Ombud]

On 7/3/2021 at 12:38 PM, LACruiser88 said:

On 7/3/2021 at 12:22 PM, Sea Hag said:

However, I'd surely hate it if they changed the Platinum/Elite counts such that Elite is still far down the road for us. I wouldn't like that at all, and I doubt anybody else would either.

You state a very reasonable fear and I totally understand your position.  I'm not sure what the perfect solution would be or if there is a perfect solution?

What about a level above Elite .... but far above like at 50 cruises (minimum 500 days)? 

 

Not there yet