Definition of fully Vaccinated

[calliopecruiser]

On 6/15/2021 at 6:04 PM, portiemom said:

Is there scientific evidence for mixing manufacturers?

Yup!  Well, it's preliminary research, but all signs point to an equitable if not better response.  Also a greater risk of post-vaccine side effects......but I'd happily exchange a few days of feeling lousy for better protection. 

 

Following an AZ shot with an mRNA as a booster has actually been shown to provide better protection than boostering an AZ vaccine with another AZ vaccine.   When it comes to the mRNA vaccines, it doesn't really matter which one as they're kind of interchangeable -- so boostering with Pfizer is the same as boostering with Moderna. 

 

I'm more upset about the rumour that the US will not accept vaccinations with AZ as valid for purposes of travel, because it hasn't been approved in the US.  I mean, I'm glad it wasn't approved because it means they gave Canada a bunch and I got vaccinated earlier than expected, but I hope it doesn't mean I can't enter the US.  It does seem like it would be shooting themselves in the foot not to accept people vaccinated with an efficacious vaccine that's been approved in so many other countries. 

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, calliopecruiser said:

Yup!  Well, it's preliminary research, but all signs point to an equitable if not better response.  Also a greater risk of post-vaccine side effects......but I'd happily exchange a few days of feeling lousy for better protection. 

 

Following an AZ shot with an mRNA as a booster has actually been shown to provide better protection than boostering an AZ vaccine with another AZ vaccine.   When it comes to the mRNA vaccines, it doesn't really matter which one as they're kind of interchangeable -- so boostering with Pfizer is the same as boostering with Moderna. 

 

I'm more upset about the rumour that the US will not accept vaccinations with AZ as valid for purposes of travel, because it hasn't been approved in the US.  I mean, I'm glad it wasn't approved because it means they gave Canada a bunch and I got vaccinated earlier than expected, but I hope it doesn't mean I can't enter the US.  It does seem like it would be shooting themselves in the foot not to accept people vaccinated with an efficacious vaccine that's been approved in so many other countries. 

 

Affirmative, both UK & Spain have conducted trials showing the results you mentioned. I also got AZ first and will get a mRNA for the 2nd dose on Saturday.

[ontheweb]

7 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

Yup!  Well, it's preliminary research, but all signs point to an equitable if not better response.  Also a greater risk of post-vaccine side effects......but I'd happily exchange a few days of feeling lousy for better protection. 

 

Following an AZ shot with an mRNA as a booster has actually been shown to provide better protection than boostering an AZ vaccine with another AZ vaccine.   When it comes to the mRNA vaccines, it doesn't really matter which one as they're kind of interchangeable -- so boostering with Pfizer is the same as boostering with Moderna. 

 

I'm more upset about the rumour that the US will not accept vaccinations with AZ as valid for purposes of travel, because it hasn't been approved in the US.  I mean, I'm glad it wasn't approved because it means they gave Canada a bunch and I got vaccinated earlier than expected, but I hope it doesn't mean I can't enter the US.  It does seem like it would be shooting themselves in the foot not to accept people vaccinated with an efficacious vaccine that's been approved in so maively ny other countries. 

Do you have any citation that the Pfizer and Moderna shots are interchangeable as they both follow the same technology? I was wondering about that, but really have not seen anything that says definitively that they are.

[DirtyDawg]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Do you have any citation that the Pfizer and Moderna shots are interchangeable as they both follow the same technology? I was wondering about that, but really have not seen anything that says definitively that they are.

 

https://www.macleans.ca/news/naci-approves-mixing-covid-vaccines-what-you-need-to-know/

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/mixing-covid-19-vaccines-appears-boost-immune-responses

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-pfizer-covid19-vaccine-delay-1.6072935

 

Our NACI has approved the mixing of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. The news articles above refer to some of the studies. Lots of Ontarians will be getting the Moderna vaccine this week even if they got Pfizer first due to shipment delays from Pfizer.

It basically boils down to the need to get fully vaccinated vs. the fast spreading new Delta variant. Mixing might not be ideal, but it's better than being dead! 🥀

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by DirtyDawg

[SuiteTraveler]

On 6/17/2021 at 3:11 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

Please cite a source for the information your post contains.  

 

The FDA is my source.  2 doses of one of the mRNA vaccines OR one dose of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine are currently approved for everyone in the US.  No more.  There are research studies in regards to a mRNA booster shot, but that does not mean that everyone should run out and get a third dose of any Covid vaccine at this time.  We need to wait and see IF this is approved and for WHOM it is approved.  While the incidence of death after vaccination has been quite low in the US (only 3 cases are attributable to any of the vaccines https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2779731) we don't know what will happen after a 3rd shot because the trials are going on now.  So no one should assume getting a 3rd shot is safe unless and until these studies are completed and a third dose is approved by the FDA.

 

It is incredibly irresponsible for people here, who are likely not even medical doctors, to suggest another  person should take a 3rd dose of any vaccine at this time.  All that has been approved by the FDA are two doses of Pfizer OR two doses of Moderna OR one dose of Johnson & Johnson.  

 

 

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, SuiteTraveler said:

 

The FDA is my source.  2 doses of one of the mRNA vaccines OR one dose of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine are currently approved for everyone in the US.  No more.  There are research studies in regards to a mRNA booster shot, but that does not mean that everyone should run out and get a third dose of any Covid vaccine at this time.  We need to wait and see IF this is approved and for WHOM it is approved.  While the incidence of death after vaccination has been quite low in the US (only 3 cases are attributable to any of the vaccines https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2779731) we don't know what will happen after a 3rd shot because the trials are going on now.  So no one should assume getting a 3rd shot is safe unless and until these studies are completed and a third dose is approved by the FDA.

 

It is incredibly irresponsible for people here, who are likely not even medical doctors, to suggest another  person should take a 3rd dose of any vaccine at this time.  All that has been approved by the FDA are two doses of Pfizer OR two doses of Moderna OR one dose of Johnson & Johnson.  

 

 

 

Thank you for your responsible post.  

[RickT]

This thread is certainly interesting (especially to Canadians) as it relates to Vaccination requirements for entry into foreign countries.  The fact that the Canadian Government was scrambling to obtain vaccines and decided it was OK to mix and match doses poses two questions.

1) Is the mix and match approach safe?  The experts in Canada and other countries say yes and may even provide better protection.  Time will tell if the experts were correct.

2) What vaccination requirements will each country have when travel resumes?  While the main goal of getting vaccinated is to protect yourself and your community many of us also got vaccinated so we can resume our lives and start to travel. The US has done a good job indicating what they accept.  Hopefully other countries follow suit in order for future travel to be planned. I suspect this will be an ever changing process so all one can do is hope they make decisions based on the most accurate and UTD information.

 

I guess the next discussion will be what documentation will be required to prove vaccination status?  My Province provided a vaccination summary that lists the dates/vaccines used but very little other info making me wonder which countries will recognize this?

 

Ultimately I am just glad to be vaccinated and have my fingers crossed that the world slowly returns to normal.

[DirtyDawg]

2 hours ago, RickT said:

This thread is certainly interesting (especially to Canadians) as it relates to Vaccination requirements for entry into foreign countries.  The fact that the Canadian Government was scrambling to obtain vaccines and decided it was OK to mix and match doses poses two questions.

1) Is the mix and match approach safe?  The experts in Canada and other countries say yes and may even provide better protection.  Time will tell if the experts were correct.

2) What vaccination requirements will each country have when travel resumes?  While the main goal of getting vaccinated is to protect yourself and your community many of us also got vaccinated so we can resume our lives and start to travel. The US has done a good job indicating what they accept.  Hopefully other countries follow suit in order for future travel to be planned. I suspect this will be an ever changing process so all one can do is hope they make decisions based on the most accurate and UTD information.

 

I guess the next discussion will be what documentation will be required to prove vaccination status?  My Province provided a vaccination summary that lists the dates/vaccines used but very little other info making me wonder which countries will recognize this?

 

Ultimately I am just glad to be vaccinated and have my fingers crossed that the world slowly returns to normal.

I think the operative word here is SLOWLY returns to normal. This is going to be a slow process as countries decide/negotiate which vaccines they will recognise for entry into their countries. And the mixing of vaccines just adds complexity and time to the process.  In addition, once the 'fully' vaccinated question gets answered, the next question will likely be which boosters will be recognised. I suspect it will be some time before we get really back to anywhere near 'normal'.

 

Edited June 22, 2021 by DirtyDawg

[ontheweb]

10 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

I think the operative word here is SLOWLY returns to normal. This is going to be a slow process as countries decide/negotiate which vaccines they will recognise for entry into their countries. And the mixing of vaccines just adds complexity and time to the process.  In addition, once the 'fully' vaccinated question gets answered, the next question will likely be which boosters will be recognised. I suspect it will be some time before we get really back to anywhere near 'normal'.

 

Excellent post. The one thing I would add is that there will inevitably be some bumps in the road on the way back to normalcy.

[DirtyDawg]

2 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Excellent post. The one thing I would add is that there will inevitably be some bumps in the road on the way back to normalcy.

Seeing that this is a cruise discussion site perhaps it should be: "there will inevitably be some choppy waters to navigate on the way back to normalcy." 😉

[ontheweb]

4 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

Seeing that this is a cruise discussion site perhaps it should be: "there will inevitably be some choppy waters to navigate on the way back to normalcy." 😉

Let's hope it is just choppy, but navigable water, not hurricanes, typhoon, tsunamis.🤞

[DirtyDawg]

1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

Let's hope it is just choppy, but navigable water, not hurricanes, typhoon, tsunamis.🤞

🤞🤞🤞

[SuiteTraveler]

I happened to peruse the CDC website on travel and it appears that the US is going to recognize the three vaccines approved by the FDA (Pfizer, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson) as well as any other vaccines that were approved by the World Health Organization which would include Astra Zeneca among several others. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/after-travel-precautions.html

 

"* This guidance applies to COVID-19 vaccines currently authorized for emergency use by the Food and Drug Administration: Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, and Johnson and Johnson (J&J)/Janssen COVID-19 vaccines.  This guidance can also be applied to COVID-19 vaccines that have been authorized for emergency use by the World Health Organization (e.g. AstraZeneca/Oxford). See WHO’s websiteexternal icon for more information about WHO-authorized COVID-19 vaccines."

 

You can see the list of WHO approved vaccines as well as those in process of being approved here: https://extranet.who.int/pqweb/search?search_api_views_fulltext=Covid-19+vaccines&op=search

[lovemylab]

I think people need to remember this is a very fluid situation. Accepted vaccines & vaccine requirements will change as more studies are done and more data is released.

 

Astrazeneca has been approved and is being used in over 100 countries around the world.  Thousands of Americans have also received Astrazeneca from particpating in vaccine trials.  The reason it's not approved by the FDA is because they haven't yet applied.

 

Mixing of vaccines is being done in several countries such as Canada, Germany, Spain, France, Denmark, China and Finland.  The preliminary data in the UK showed it was safe and the data out of Spain showed it was effective.  

 

Johnson & Johnson is approved in Canada but hasn't yet been used due to concerns with quality.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7941685/eu-jj-covid-shots-u-s-contamination/

 

I'm noticing in this thread that several people seem to think because they haven't seen any data/reports/news articles on something that it must not be safe or effective.  Just because CNN or Fox News didn't report it doesn't mean it's not happening elsewhere in the world.

 

When it comes to advice on vaccines, I prefer to listen to infectious disease doctors and not what random people on cruise critic suggest.  

 

I live in Canada. My first dose was Astrazeneca and I'm getting my second dose (Moderna) next week.  German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, received this same combination.  Our Prime Minister will also be receiving a mixed dose as he got Astrazeneca as his first dose.  Canada's Chief Medical Office has received a combination of Pfizer/Moderna.  Am I worried about not being able to travel when things open up?  Not in the least.  

Edited June 27, 2021 by lovemylab

[getting older slowly]

As said there is a lot of water yet to pass under the bridge.

 

Each Country  will be deciding whom that will be lets in and what the restrictions will be... 

 

Just as a side line... Here in Australia with lockdown happening and states border being open and shut with some frequency ..... there is talk , of people doing 14 day quarantine. regardless of vaccination status  ( nothing, one shot or two shot ) 

 

All I see is a very long and winding road  ahead

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, lovemylab said:

I think people need to remember this is a very fluid situation. Accepted vaccines & vaccine requirements will change as more studies are done and more data is released.

 

Astrazeneca has been approved and is being used in over 100 countries around the world.  Thousands of Americans have also received Astrazeneca from particpating in vaccine trials.  The reason it's not approved by the FDA is because they haven't yet applied.

 

Mixing of vaccines is being done in several countries such as Canada, Germany, Spain, France, Denmark, China and Finland.  The preliminary data in the UK showed it was safe and the data out of Spain showed it was effective.  

 

Johnson & Johnson is approved in Canada but hasn't yet been used due to concerns with quality.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7941685/eu-jj-covid-shots-u-s-contamination/

 

I'm noticing in this thread that several people seem to think because they haven't seen any data/reports/news articles on something that it must not be safe or effective.  Just because CNN or Fox News didn't report it doesn't mean it's not happening elsewhere in the world.

 

When it comes to advice on vaccines, I prefer to listen to infectious disease doctors and not what random people on cruise critic suggest.  

 

I live in Canada. My first dose was Astrazeneca and I'm getting my second dose (Moderna) next week.  German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, received this same combination.  Our Prime Minister will also be receiving a mixed dose as he got Astrazeneca as his first dose.  Canada's Chief Medical Office has received a combination of Pfizer/Moderna.  Am I worried about not being able to travel when things open up?  Not in the least.  

 

Very well said.

 

I also got AZ first and received Moderna today and have zero concerns with traveling. Our son is currently standing-by a newbuild in Germany, receiving AZ first and Pfizer yesterday. He is returning on leave early next month and will probably fly into Seatac, so he has no concerns either.

 

After his leave he flies back to the German shipyard.

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, lovemylab said:

I think people need to remember this is a very fluid situation. Accepted vaccines & vaccine requirements will change as more studies are done and more data is released.

 

Astrazeneca has been approved and is being used in over 100 countries around the world.  Thousands of Americans have also received Astrazeneca from particpating in vaccine trials.  The reason it's not approved by the FDA is because they haven't yet applied.

 

Mixing of vaccines is being done in several countries such as Canada, Germany, Spain, France, Denmark, China and Finland.  The preliminary data in the UK showed it was safe and the data out of Spain showed it was effective.  

 

Johnson & Johnson is approved in Canada but hasn't yet been used due to concerns with quality.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7941685/eu-jj-covid-shots-u-s-contamination/

 

I'm noticing in this thread that several people seem to think because they haven't seen any data/reports/news articles on something that it must not be safe or effective.  Just because CNN or Fox News didn't report it doesn't mean it's not happening elsewhere in the world.

 

When it comes to advice on vaccines, I prefer to listen to infectious disease doctors and not what random people on cruise critic suggest.  

 

I live in Canada. My first dose was Astrazeneca and I'm getting my second dose (Moderna) next week.  German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, received this same combination.  Our Prime Minister will also be receiving a mixed dose as he got Astrazeneca as his first dose.  Canada's Chief Medical Office has received a combination of Pfizer/Moderna.  Am I worried about not being able to travel when things open up?  Not in the least.  

A very good and interesting post, but I do have one quibble with it. You say the reason that AstraZeneca has not been approved in the US is that they have not yet applied. But that skips over the fact that there is a reason that they have not applied. In fact, they were scheduled to be the first to apply, but now still have not applied. There were problems with the data in their clinical trials. 

[lovemylab]

On 6/27/2021 at 7:48 AM, ontheweb said:

A very good and interesting post, but I do have one quibble with it. You say the reason that AstraZeneca has not been approved in the US is that they have not yet applied. But that skips over the fact that there is a reason that they have not applied. In fact, they were scheduled to be the first to apply, but now still have not applied. There were problems with the data in their clinical trials. 

 

Yes, there was issues with the data but that doesn't change the fact that they never applied for emergency use.  Many people are under the impression that the FDA denied approval and that is not the case.  

 

With the supply the US has with other vaccines, they no longer need Astrazeneca to meet their needs so at this point Astrazenca will most likely apply for full approval, which takes longer.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/26/us-fda-may-not-review-new-covid-19-vaccine-eua-requests-during-pandemic.html

 

 

 

[frantic36]

4 minutes ago, lovemylab said:

 

Yes, there was issues with the data but that doesn't change the fact that they never applied for emergency use.  Many people are under the impression that the FDA denied approval and that is not the case.  

 

With the supply the US has with other vaccines, they no longer need Astrazeneca to meet their needs so at this point Astrazenca will most likely apply for full approval, which takes longer.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/26/us-fda-may-not-review-new-covid-19-vaccine-eua-requests-during-pandemic.html

 

 

 

 

Well said. The FDA wanted extra data from AZ initially because there was a mix up in some data from one of their testing places. By the time they could supply new data Pfizer and Moderna had captured the US market so they decided to not go through the process for emergency approval by the FDA when other places in the world had already approved them. It makes good business sense. The FDA though very competent is not the only accredited drug authority in the world.

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, lovemylab said:

 

Yes, there was issues with the data but that doesn't change the fact that they never applied for emergency use.  Many people are under the impression that the FDA denied approval and that is not the case.  

 

With the supply the US has with other vaccines, they no longer need Astrazeneca to meet their needs so at this point Astrazenca will most likely apply for full approval, which takes longer.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/26/us-fda-may-not-review-new-covid-19-vaccine-eua-requests-during-pandemic.html

 

 

 

I won't disagree, but the fact remains that there were problems with the data they were going to submit to ask for emergency authorization. I never said the FDA denied approval, and I hope no one got that impression from my post that you quoted.