Mixed Vaccines

[broberts]

2 hours ago, tert333 said:

I hate to do this as it takes a vaccine away from someone else.  However, it is our government that needlessly put us into this situation.   Will see how it plays out over the next few weeks.

 

 Feeling entitled are we? 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by broberts

[JRG]

2 hours ago, tert333 said:

I agree.  This would be the last thing I would want to do.  The reason why I would do j&J over Pfizer(I had AZ and PFizer), is that I am not sure what would happen if I showed a vaccine using the canadian health services - Pfizer #1, and then a vaccine from some other country, being vaccine #2.   If I got the J&J, I would have two options;  just show the j&J, or the AZ/Pfizer combo.

 

I hate to do this as it takes a vaccine away from someone else.  However, it is our government that needlessly put us into this situation.   Will see how it plays out over the next few weeks.

 

Bolding is mine.   In some fairness to your government,  it is really the government's plan that broke down only in one area,   the Communication Plan.

 

I know this from managing and participating and salving large scale ERP projects in a Fortune 500 environment.   I can tell you that most of the hiccups in the plans are due to not enough dedicated planning for the communication issues that need to arise through-out the project.

 

Canada has a fine government,  and they have a model hybrid national medical solution,  we should not criticize all of the government,  only the plan,  and the line item on the plan which broke down was the Communication Plan.   The task that did not received enough attention must have been how long to wait if there was a delay in the second dosage.    

 

Even in the US,  there was not a specific amount of communication saying don't mix dosages,  we were just queing up waiting for a slot and the reservation included the vaccine that was going to be given.

 

This will be cleared up within weeks as I am hoping the clinical trials are already underway so I think cruisers affected should hang in there.

 

 

[MaddyandMax]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

I don't know why people would trust call center answers over written answers. Especially since the written answer conforms to the CDC guidance and the policy of every other major cruise line.

 

I guess you will have to call every day until the call center updates its material. 😞  

 

 

Normally I would agree with you but I keep hearing it from multiple sources. It would be too much of a risk for me to just go off the website, make travel arrangements and show up and then be denied boarding. But others don’t have my worry/fear LOL. Plus, I’m not cruising with Celebrity and Royal has not changed their policy. It’s just “under review”.

 

hopefully in the coming weeks this will all be sorted out properly.  

[tert333]

WASHINGTON, July 23 (Reuters) - A federal appeals court late on Friday reversed course and let stand a lower court order prohibiting the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) from enforcing coronavirus-related cruise ship restrictions in Florida.

 

 

 

So this now means that the CDC requirements are now recommendations.   Wonder whether this will change the cruise rules again....  Hopefully, we will get some clarity around this in the near future.   Some of the cruiselines are allowing mixed vaccines (AZ/Pfizer, Moderna) in Europe.  We shall see.

We may be able to go yet.

 

I am sure some will pile onto this and give their reasons of why it won't happen.  Luckily, they don't make the decisions.... 🙂

 

PS.  It appears that this only relates to cruises out of florida.   So the existing CDC rules are in place for Alaska. 

 

 

[tert333]

3 hours ago, broberts said:

 

 Feeling entitled are we? 

 

 

More frustrated than entitled.....

[K_e_short]

37 minutes ago, tert333 said:

WASHINGTON, July 23 (Reuters) - A federal appeals court late on Friday reversed course and let stand a lower court order prohibiting the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) from enforcing coronavirus-related cruise ship restrictions in Florida.

 

 

 

So this now means that the CDC requirements are now recommendations.   Wonder whether this will change the cruise rules again....  Hopefully, we will get some clarity around this in the near future.   Some of the cruiselines are allowing mixed vaccines (AZ/Pfizer, Moderna) in Europe.  We shall see.

We may be able to go yet.

 

I am sure some will pile onto this and give their reasons of why it won't happen.  Luckily, they don't make the decisions.... 🙂

 

PS.  It appears that this only relates to cruises out of florida.   So the existing CDC rules are in place for Alaska. 

 

 

 

I did notice as well that European cruises allow AZ/Pfizer/Moderna mix.

 

I did read the CDC and the WHO website to try to understand the issue.

 

It really all comes down to what the CDC allows and nothing more, nothing less. In Europe it is not the CDC and whatever is the equivalent regulatory body, they have decided that AZ/Pfizer/Moderna is fine.

 

 

 

[broberts]

3 hours ago, MaddyandMax said:

Normally I would agree with you but I keep hearing it from multiple sources. It would be too much of a risk for me to just go off the website, make travel arrangements and show up and then be denied boarding. But others don’t have my worry/fear LOL. Plus, I’m not cruising with Celebrity and Royal has not changed their policy. It’s just “under review”.

 

hopefully in the coming weeks this will all be sorted out properly.  

 

I don't know why the call centers are not up to date. Does make it difficult to commit.

 

Royal has the same written policy as Celebrity. In fact  Carnival, Princess, and HAL have the same written policy. Probably because the CDC now accepts people that received a dose each of two different mRNA vaccines as fully vaccinated.

 

From the RCI FAQ (underline is mine)

 

"For Cruises Departing from U.S. Ports 

The U.S. CDC advises that a vaccine series should be completed with products from the same manufacturer, as the safety of a mixed-product series has not been fully evaluated. However, Royal Caribbean will accommodate guests who are vaccinated with mixed mRNA vaccines, such as 1 shot of Pfizer and 1 shot of Moderna. The doses must be separated by at least 28 days and not more than 42 days."

Edited July 24, 2021 by broberts

[K_e_short]

2 hours ago, broberts said:

 

I don't know why the call centers are not up to date. Does make it difficult to commit.

 

Royal has the same written policy as Celebrity. In fact  Carnival, Princess, and HAL have the same written policy. Probably because the CDC now accepts people that received a dose each of two different mRNA vaccines as fully vaccinated.

 

From the RCI FAQ (underline is mine)

 

"For Cruises Departing from U.S. Ports 

The U.S. CDC advises that a vaccine series should be completed with products from the same manufacturer, as the safety of a mixed-product series has not been fully evaluated. However, Royal Caribbean will accommodate guests who are vaccinated with mixed mRNA vaccines, such as 1 shot of Pfizer and 1 shot of Moderna. The doses must be separated by at least 28 days and not more than 42 days."

 

When I read that from RCI I get worried since many Canadians went more then 42 days between doses....

 

Someone had mentioned that a while ago that very few Canadians actually received their vaccine doses equally as was suggested.

Actually I will take that back, my 14 year old son got his two Pfizers 31 days apart.

 

Out of every single ADULT that I know who has two doses, no one has gotten it in less then 42 days....

 

[broberts]

1 hour ago, K_e_short said:

 

When I read that from RCI I get worried since many Canadians went more then 42 days between doses....

 

Someone had mentioned that a while ago that very few Canadians actually received their vaccine doses equally as was suggested.

Actually I will take that back, my 14 year old son got his two Pfizers 31 days apart.

 

Out of every single ADULT that I know who has two doses, no one has gotten it in less then 42 days....

 

 

I hadn't factored in the time limit. I too am well beyond 42 days for my 2nd shot. 😞 More patience is required.

[DirtyDawg]

2022 seems like a good year to start considering cruising again. 

[draved]

"For Cruises Departing from U.S. Ports 

The U.S. CDC advises that a vaccine series should be completed with products from the same manufacturer, as the safety of a mixed-product series has not been fully evaluated. However, Royal Caribbean will accommodate guests who are vaccinated with mixed mRNA vaccines, such as 1 shot of Pfizer and 1 shot of Moderna. The doses must be separated by at least 28 days and not more than 42 days."

 

These cruise lines keeps quoting CDC guidelines but that's not CDC says at all.   Here's what it says on the CDC Site:

 

Using the above strategies, every effort should be made to determine which vaccine product was received as the first dose to ensure completion of the vaccine series with the same product. In exceptional situations in which the mRNA vaccine product given for the first dose cannot be determined or is no longer available, any available mRNA COVID-19 vaccine may be administered at a minimum interval of 28 days between doses to complete the mRNA COVID-19 vaccination series. In situations where the same mRNA vaccine product is temporarily unavailable, it is preferable to delay the second dose (up to 6 weeks) to receive the same product than to receive a mixed series using a different product. If two doses of different mRNA COVID-19 vaccine products are administered in these situations (or inadvertently), no additional doses of either product are recommended at this time. Such persons are considered fully vaccinated against COVID-19 ≥2 weeks after receipt of the second dose of an mRNA vaccine.

 

The 42 days mentioned is basically saying that CDC prefers one to delay the dose to 42 days (6 weeks) in order to receive the same vaccine as the first dose. If one cannot get the same type by 42 days, then it's okay to get a different brand of vaccine. 

[3Shelaghs]

Science table now says, "the sweet spot between doses is 8 weeks", exactly as predicted by educated epidemiologists a few months back. Nothing wrong with mixing in my opinion, but I stayed true to manufacturer literature and didn't mix..... only because I saw this idiocy of people not recognizing different medicine. Now if we could just get the politicians to agree to a travel vaccine passport, just like the yellow fever card..... would someone please educate them!!!! Quick before the Phi Epsilon Cum Lada variant appears!!!

[MaddyandMax]

It’s silly that the time frame between the vaccines wouldn’t come in to play if I didn’t have two different ones. My understanding is Canadians have travelled with two of the same, longer than 42 days, but had no problems. 

[hubbards]

As a very frequent cruiser who could only get the AZ vaccine due to my age back in March, I had very strong concerns about mixing AZ with an MRNA vaccine. I jumped through hoops to get a second AZ shot, and thank goodness I did.  I never trusted the Canadian so called experts on this issue from day one.  Those of us who got the AZ (once or twice) thought we were doing the right thing by protecting ourselves and others.  No good deed goes unpunished.  The Canadian government doesn’t care about the plight of AZ travellers.  They WANT us to stay home.  When there was an announcement that Bruce Springsteen’s Broadway show was barring anyone with AZ as their Covid shot, I wrote to Ford, Trudeau and Deblasio and Cuomo.  I wasn’t interested in the show at all, just venting my frustration at the governments lack of foresight.  Either Canada stands by their approving this vaccine, or they don’t.  They owe it to the recipients to insure we can be included everywhere.

 How long are they going to wait to lift the travel restrictions?  I recently purchased travel insurance for a short trip to the US.  I inquired if Covid was included in the coverage. No, it is not. I needed to buy a Covid rider policy.  The agent said this is the case until the government removes the travel restriction language from their website.  They originally said February 2022.  What are the odds they will change it before then now that they are scared of the Delta variant?  IMHO, 0%.  

[OVgirl]

I'm wondering how the CDC recommendations will effect travel between our countries if and when the US opens their borders. Will they add restrictions on the types of vaccines the Canadians have received? 

 

I think Canada has just stated that people must be fully vaccinated without breaking it down.

[hubbards]

Trudeau better be working on that NOW so there is no issue.  When I was due for my 2nd dose I read the CDC guidelines which stated no mixing of vaccines.  It stated that if you got a first dose of vaccine A but then was coming to the US with vaccine A/B, you would need to get a second dose of B to be considered fully vaccinated.  I took that to heart and got two AZs.  I did this because I was afraid of being denied travel on cruise ships out of the US.

[broberts]

2 hours ago, hubbards said:

Trudeau better be working on that NOW so there is no issue.  When I was due for my 2nd dose I read the CDC guidelines which stated no mixing of vaccines.  It stated that if you got a first dose of vaccine A but then was coming to the US with vaccine A/B, you would need to get a second dose of B to be considered fully vaccinated.  I took that to heart and got two AZs.  I did this because I was afraid of being denied travel on cruise ships out of the US.

 

I'm sure your wish to travel internationally is at the top of the prime minister's to do list. 🙄

[hubbards]

I’m sure Trudeau doesn’t care about my issue, and the issue of most Canadians.  Anyway, I have personal reasons why I need to travel on cruise ships.  Enough said.

[K_e_short]

3 hours ago, hubbards said:

Trudeau better be working on that NOW so there is no issue.  When I was due for my 2nd dose I read the CDC guidelines which stated no mixing of vaccines.  It stated that if you got a first dose of vaccine A but then was coming to the US with vaccine A/B, you would need to get a second dose of B to be considered fully vaccinated.  I took that to heart and got two AZs.  I did this because I was afraid of being denied travel on cruise ships out of the US.

 

Going to sound bratty but I did not have a choice to get a second AZ shot.

My first shot was April 28th and by the time I was close to getting my second shot they had decided that you couldn't get AZ as your second shot.

In Ontario only those that got their 1st AZ shot before March 31st were allowed to get AZ.

That was to "USE UP" the AZ doses that were currently going to expire.

 

That is the issue that I continue to repeat. We did not have a choice. We were told not to pick our type of vaccine. We were told to get the first and second dose offered to us.

 

I'm happy you got two AZ doses and can travel. Your argument is the same that many Americans on this site are saying to Canadians when we explain our issues. They say "well why did you get mixed doses?"

[brontravel]

1 hour ago, K_e_short said:

 

Going to sound bratty but I did not have a choice to get a second AZ shot.

My first shot was April 28th and by the time I was close to getting my second shot they had decided that you couldn't get AZ as your second shot.

In Ontario only those that got their 1st AZ shot before March 31st were allowed to get AZ.

That was to "USE UP" the AZ doses that were currently going to expire.

 

That is the issue that I continue to repeat. We did not have a choice. We were told not to pick our type of vaccine. We were told to get the first and second dose offered to us.

 

I'm happy you got two AZ doses and can travel. Your argument is the same that many Americans on this site are saying to Canadians when we explain our issues. They say "well why did you get mixed doses?"

Wow. I’m surprised you didn’t have the option of a second AZ dose where you were. My first dose was April 24 and I was able to get AZ as my second. I just called the pharmacy and they said no problem. Maybe it depended on the supply in your area. And yes, I am in Ontario. 

[lostinparadise999]

For Canadians and international cruisers. 

I was on HAL FAQ. HAL has changed their position on what is fully vaccinated::

 

For cruises departing outside of the United States, you may be regarded as fully vaccinated if you have received your first dose of AstraZeneca followed by a single dose of mRNA vaccine (Pfizer or Moderna) to complete the 2-dose series.

[tert333]

The UK has just announced today they are not recognizing mixed vaccines.  This affects many Europeans who have received mixed vaccines.  It does not affect Canadians as we have to quarantine now when going to the UK.   However, if they allow us to travel in the future to the UK, like they have done with the Americans, or Europeans, we will need to quarantine.

 

The people who did not follow NACI recommendations are the ones that will be able to travel to the UK.(ie those that did not follow their recommendations to take the first dose available, and it is better to mix AZ and mRNA vaccine).

 

Looks like our federal government is making no inroads into resolving this issue, and instead more countries are now not recognizing mixed vaccines. 

 

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/eu-travellers-vaccinated-with-mixed-covid-19-jabs-face-quarantine-restrictions-in-uk/

[hubbards]

1 hour ago, tert333 said:

The UK has just announced today they are not recognizing mixed vaccines.  This affects many Europeans who have received mixed vaccines.  It does not affect Canadians as we have to quarantine now when going to the UK.   However, if they allow us to travel in the future to the UK, like they have done with the Americans, or Europeans, we will need to quarantine.

 

The people who did not follow NACI recommendations are the ones that will be able to travel to the UK.(ie those that did not follow their recommendations to take the first dose available, and it is better to mix AZ and mRNA vaccine).

 

Looks like our federal government is making no inroads into resolving this issue, and instead more countries are now not recognizing mixed vaccines. 

 

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/eu-travellers-vaccinated-with-mixed-covid-19-jabs-face-quarantine-restrictions-in-uk/

Trudeau and the others don't have the back of those who followed the so called expert guidelines.

 

[K_e_short]

9 hours ago, tert333 said:

The UK has just announced today they are not recognizing mixed vaccines.  This affects many Europeans who have received mixed vaccines.  It does not affect Canadians as we have to quarantine now when going to the UK.   However, if they allow us to travel in the future to the UK, like they have done with the Americans, or Europeans, we will need to quarantine.

 

The people who did not follow NACI recommendations are the ones that will be able to travel to the UK.(ie those that did not follow their recommendations to take the first dose available, and it is better to mix AZ and mRNA vaccine).

 

Looks like our federal government is making no inroads into resolving this issue, and instead more countries are now not recognizing mixed vaccines. 

 

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/eu-travellers-vaccinated-with-mixed-covid-19-jabs-face-quarantine-restrictions-in-uk/

 

Am I allowed to swear now?

 

I figured I was at least good to go next summer on Cunard (Southamptom to New York).

 

Well I guess I should start looking at a cross country road trip as our Summer 2022 vacation.

[Vancouver-Cruiser]

9 hours ago, tert333 said:

The UK has just announced today they are not recognizing mixed vaccines.  This affects many Europeans who have received mixed vaccines.  It does not affect Canadians as we have to quarantine now when going to the UK.   However, if they allow us to travel in the future to the UK, like they have done with the Americans, or Europeans, we will need to quarantine.

 

The people who did not follow NACI recommendations are the ones that will be able to travel to the UK.(ie those that did not follow their recommendations to take the first dose available, and it is better to mix AZ and mRNA vaccine).

 

Looks like our federal government is making no inroads into resolving this issue, and instead more countries are now not recognizing mixed vaccines. 

 

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/eu-travellers-vaccinated-with-mixed-covid-19-jabs-face-quarantine-restrictions-in-uk/

Unbelievable! That means more cancellations for us, as we were to fly through LHR enroute to Italy, in October. I assumed Canada would move to Green status in the UK soon. Maybe this issue is why Canada is still Amber. If and when the US opens the land border we’ll drive across and get a third dose.