Cruise line COVID evacuation

[Essiesmom]

I wanted to add this to the first thread about the lady debarked in Belize, but it went poof as I tried to access the second page.  

I want to make two points.  In the article I will not reference, the family had to raise money among them to get her admitted to the hospital in Belize, and pay to fly her home.  Well, this has been explained many, many times on these boards.  Even if they had had travel insurance, it only reimburses you after the fact, after you have filed claims with Medicare and other insurance.  It is very seldom primary, and that would depend on whether the hospital would accept it.  There are insurances that will take over and arrange the travel, but many don't have that.

Second, there are many references to Royal Caribbean flying positive guests home on a private jet.  I am not up on how many times this has happened, but the first incidence was on the Adventure of the Seas from Nassau.  Part of the process of flying to sail from the Bahamas is getting the Bahamas Travel Health Visa.  

https://travel.gov.bs/

 

The cost of the visa, $40, includes mandatory health insurance from the Bahamas Gov't.  

https://travel.gov.bs/file/insuranceNorthAmerica        This is a pdf, I hope you can open it.  If not, in the previous link to the visa, go across the top to Insurance, and click on North America in the drop down box'

The insurance covers $500/day in expenses x14 days quarantine up to $7000.  If you need evacuation, it pays up to $50,000.  Since you would not be able to fly commercial, private jet is paid for.  

I really hope this is not moved to Cruise/Travel insurance forum before a few people get to read it.  EM

[HxFx]

10 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

Second, there are many references to Royal Caribbean flying positive guests home on a private jet.

Yes, and I think an important distinction is those folks on Royal did not have as advanced symptoms as this woman. She needed to go to a hospital right away.

[Babr]

Thanks for posting the details of the Bahamas Travel Visa. It explains how and why Royal has been able to fly people home.

 

But people need to realize it applies only to the Bahamas and has nothing to do with any insurance they may buy on their own.

 

Also it is an important point that even with insurance, you need to be prepared to pay up front. Foreign health care facilities don’t just take your insurance card the way they do at home.

[kleibo]

21 minutes ago, Babr said:

But people need to realize it applies only to the Bahamas and has nothing to do with any insurance they may buy on their own

 

Correct - only for travelers to Bahamas or Cruises departing FROM Bahamas.  I would have bought it if it covered cruises with a Bahamas port visit.

[BlerkOne]

It had been reported that the women's insurance was not valid outside of the US. That suggests she had nothing but plain medicare. Carnival should require everyone to have covid coverage insurance.

 

I do wonder why her family didn't exit the ship with her.

 

I have redundant medical and evacuation insurance, but even if I didn't, high enough credit limits on credit cards to cover almost anything.

[ScottsSweetie]

26 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

It had been reported that the women's insurance was not valid outside of the US. That suggests she had nothing but plain medicare. Carnival should require everyone to have covid coverage insurance.

 

I do wonder why her family didn't exit the ship with her.

 

I have redundant medical and evacuation insurance, but even if I didn't, high enough credit limits on credit cards to cover almost anything.

I also wondered that. The article gave the impression that it was extended family traveling together. It did not specifically say that no one stayed with her - but it didn't say that someone did, either. I would never leave a relative alone like that - never mind her advanced age and medical condition.

[timbom]

I continue to believe this is a go fund me account scam.  I have found no trusted source of this story.

 

I sent this story to a friend at a Houston news paper and she tried to track it down also to no avail.  

[BermudaBound2014]

7 minutes ago, timbom said:

I continue to believe this is a go fund me account scam.  I have found no trusted source of this story.

 

I sent this story to a friend at a Houston news paper and she tried to track it down also to no avail.  

 

I'm not sure either, but here is a link to a story quoting cruiselaw but also includes an interview with the Minister of Health in Belize. I've seen some other leaks also, just nothing on MSM yet.

COVID-19 Passenger Aboard the Carnival Vista Dies After Being Hospitalized in Belize – Love FM | Belize News and Music Power

[TravelBluebird]

I also have found this:  http://www.7newsbelize.com/sstory.php?nid=58829 from a Belize news station.

[asalligo]

Regardless of whether you think how Carnival handled this is right or wrong, this is going to hurt business. They really should have taken more of an interest in her process because thousands of people are rethinking their cruises now due this event. No one wants to be stuck in another country trying to get care and I personally do not think Insurance would have helped her much. 

[CruisinWithDLS]

58 minutes ago, timbom said:

I continue to believe this is a go fund me account scam.  I have found no trusted source of this story.

 

I sent this story to a friend at a Houston news paper and she tried to track it down also to no avail.  

I found her obituary out of Waggoner OK I believe.  Indicative that it did indeed happen or it was a pretty elaborate effort!

[ScottsSweetie]

2 minutes ago, asalligo said:

Regardless of whether you think how Carnival handled this is right or wrong, this is going to hurt business. They really should have taken more of an interest in her process because thousands of people are rethinking their cruises now due this event. No one wants to be stuck in another country trying to get care and I personally do not think Insurance would have helped her much. 

Since I've never had medical issues on a ship (knock on wood), I would simply want to know if this is the normal process. How was it treated previously for a heart problem? A burst appendix? A stroke? Medical issues happen all the time and if Carnival followed their normal procedures when disembarking a medical patient then I don't know if it's realistic to expect a different scenario when it's covid vs. other medical issues.

[ScottsSweetie]

2 minutes ago, CruisinWithDLS said:

I found her obituary out of Waggoner OK I believe.  Indicative that it did indeed happen or it was a pretty elaborate effort!

Yes, the obituary was easy to find and the dates coincide with the go fund me.

[ninjacat123]

9 minutes ago, ScottsSweetie said:

Since I've never had medical issues on a ship (knock on wood), I would simply want to know if this is the normal process. How was it treated previously for a heart problem? A burst appendix? A stroke? Medical issues happen all the time and if Carnival followed their normal procedures when disembarking a medical patient then I don't know if it's realistic to expect a different scenario when it's covid vs. other medical issues.

I was thinking the same thing about other medical issues that shipboard medical can't cover...this may be protocol. 

[asalligo]

5 minutes ago, ScottsSweetie said:

Since I've never had medical issues on a ship (knock on wood), I would simply want to know if this is the normal process. How was it treated previously for a heart problem? A burst appendix? A stroke? Medical issues happen all the time and if Carnival followed their normal procedures when disembarking a medical patient then I don't know if it's realistic to expect a different scenario when it's covid vs. other medical issues.

It does not matter what normal procedure is. Sometimes you have to do what is right for the business in the long run in times of adversity. Millions of potential cruisers are sitting at home thinking is it worth it or too dangerous to cruise? Every time one of them reads this article Carnival loses potential revenue. Right now it is only in our world, but soon it will be all over the news. They are just slow to catch on. Carnival had the chance for this to read "Flown home at cruise lines expense and they did everything they could" instead of the sob story they will make it now. You may find cruiselawnews to have been generous when Good Morning America plays their version. 

[asalligo]

Too late now though, the media will catch wind of this eventually and Carnival is going to take a hit with consumer confidence. Many of Carnivals patrons were already cruising on what they could barely afford. They are going to be scared off by this news. 

 

https://www.breakingbelizenews.com/2021/08/18/health-minister-says-he-doesnt-know-that-cruise-ships-are-dumping-covid-19-patients-in-belize-after-one-dies-on-return-home2/

[asalligo]

https://edition.channel5belize.com/archives/222847

[sanger727]

51 minutes ago, asalligo said:

Regardless of whether you think how Carnival handled this is right or wrong, this is going to hurt business. They really should have taken more of an interest in her process because thousands of people are rethinking their cruises now due this event. No one wants to be stuck in another country trying to get care and I personally do not think Insurance would have helped her much. 

 

I really don't think this has hit mainstream media. I checked news sites, local and national, daily and haven't seen any stories about it. Nothing about this article has led me to think that the Carnival is abandoning patients in other countries. Pre-covid and now with covid, if you have a medical emergency that the health center cannot treat, they have to disembark you to a local hospital. At that point it's up to you and/or your insurance to pay for your care. This story could have just as easily been about a 77 year old patient who had a heart attack. The ending would have been the same. I think everyone knows that most Caribbean countries aren't where you would like to receive major medical care. But on occasion it's unavoidable. 

[Terab85]

1 hour ago, asalligo said:

Regardless of whether you think how Carnival handled this is right or wrong, this is going to hurt business. They really should have taken more of an interest in her process because thousands of people are rethinking their cruises now due this event. No one wants to be stuck in another country trying to get care and I personally do not think Insurance would have helped her much. 

Unfortunately I don't think we have the whole story.  The story makes Carnival out to be the villain but we might only be getting part of the story from her family.  Unfortunately traveling abroad without some kind of insurance is risky these days.  

[Babr]

1 hour ago, ninjacat123 said:

I was thinking the same thing about other medical issues that shipboard medical can't cover...this may be protocol. 

 Yes, that is standard procedure. The cruise lines were required to improve their medical facilities and stock the maximum inventory of oxygen allowed by safety regulations, but it was never intended to be an ICU unit. That is why they have a morgue on board, too.

 

People who have other kinds of medical emergencies are regularly disembarked to be treated by local facilities. That is where your evacuation coverage comes in to get you to the nearest hospital. Yes, you’ll likely be required to pay out of pocket even with insurance, and yes the insurance company will try to do whatever it can to let the patient stay there hoping he can recover enough to be returned by commercial air. It was obvious in this case that the patient needed a higher level of care, and the transfer was delayed by lack of funds. 
 

Sometimes the Coast Guard or its equivalent is called upon to transfer a patient directly from the ship, but many factors go into making that decision because it is a risky procedure. At least you don’t pay for it. It is a service provided to aid ships at sea through international agreements.
 

In any case, evacuation is a hospital-to-hospital transfer in severe cases like this one. It does not fly you home just because you want to go nor does a positive Covid test qualify. Celebrity and Royal have made the cold reality hard to accept.

If you’d like more control, look at MedJet Assist. It is a stand alone evacuation policy that you buy in addition to standard travel insurance.

 

Among the things to consider nowadays is that Caribbean islands for the most part lack adequate medical facilities for themselves, much less tourists, and travel insurance is your best bet to expedite things. 
 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Babr

[ray98]

I don't see how sending someone to a hospital on shore for a medial issue is in anyway "dumping them off".  

[tm_aw_love]

1 hour ago, ScottsSweetie said:

Medical issues happen all the time and if Carnival followed their normal procedures when disembarking a medical patient then I don't know if it's realistic to expect a different scenario when it's covid vs. other medical issues.

 

56 minutes ago, ninjacat123 said:

I was thinking the same thing about other medical issues that shipboard medical can't cover...this may be protocol. 

I can confirm that in 2019 my toddler had an unfortunate accident onboard that required urgent medical attention. They stabilized him and immediately asked us to give permission to transfer him to a port medical facility in order to do some further testing that they did not have the capability to perform onboard. They most definitely stay on the side of caution when it comes to these decisions. 

 

In addition, I think this was a lose lose situation for Carnival. If the patient was kept onboard and they did not have the appropriate life saving equipment, they would have most definitely been facing a lawsuit and much worse publicity. If they kept her onboard and additional patients required critical care space in the medical area that were now overloaded, Carnival would have been forced to ignore somebody's medical needs. Transferring her to a better equipped facility with more space was the right decision. People criticizing Carnival for this decision would be finding a way to blame them no matter what. 

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, asalligo said:

Regardless of whether you think how Carnival handled this is right or wrong, this is going to hurt business. They really should have taken more of an interest in her process because thousands of people are rethinking their cruises now due this event. No one wants to be stuck in another country trying to get care and I personally do not think Insurance would have helped her much. 

Baloney. People with a brain know better. People die ON cruise ships all the time. Cruising doesn't come with a Get Out of Death card. This is one covid death out of hundreds of thousands of covid deaths of Americans. She should have had insurance that covered her. Carnival was not her mother or her extended family, who are the people who abandoned her. Her family should have made sure she had adequate insurance.

 

 

[BlerkOne]

7 minutes ago, Babr said:

 

If you’d like more control, look at MedJet Assist. It is a stand alone evacuation policy that you buy in addition to standard travel insurance.

 

 

 

MedJet  Horizon will even get you cash upfront, in case a local facility won't accept credit cards.

[Babr]

Just now, BlerkOne said:

MedJet  Horizon will even get you cash upfront, in case a local facility won't accept credit cards.

Yes, it is the more expensive of the two plans but may be worth it if people are really concerned. They should also understand it needs to be paired with either a medical like GeoBlue or a standard comprehensive travel policy.