Woe With O ---Marina 12/1 Changes

[Hlitner]

4 minutes ago, Jockocruiser said:

Hank, I agree with you.  O is not reasonable in their attempt to say this is the same cruise as you booked.  O changed the cruise itinerary and final destination point.   1,500 miles and different counties proves the fact that this is not the same cruise originally offered, booked, and paid 
 

Oceania should provide a full 100% refund to the original form of payment. If you paid via Credit Card and O won’t refund,  you should dispute to the card company - in writing - and with proof of different itineraries. Copy your attorney.

 

 

We are ahead of you regarding these options.  But I make no secret of my strategy which is to first work with both my "travel professional" and O to resolve the matter.  But yes, there are several other options if we cannot reach an accord with the cruise line.  I do find it somewhat sad that our first attempt to cruise on O (and we give Flatbush Flyer some credit for convincing us to make O our 17th cruise line) has reached this unfortunate impasse.   In more then 45 years of extensive cruising (far more then 100 cruises with 16 different lines) we have never faced such a situation.  I did not expect such a policy from any company run by FDR.  Covid has brought out some of the best and worst from many travel providers.  Until this point we have only encountered "bests."

 

Hank

 

 

[PaulMCO]

4 minutes ago, Jockocruiser said:

Hank, I agree with you.  O is not reasonable in their attempt to say this is the same cruise as you booked.  O changed the cruise itinerary and final destination point.   1,500 miles and different counties proves it greatly.
 

Oceania should provide a full 100% refund to the original form of payment. If you paid via Credit Card and O won’t refund,  you should dispute to the card company - in writing - and with proof of different itineraries. Copy your attorney.

 

 

I would not do any attorney non sense.  You have no case.  You really need a better TA Hank as you indicated. They are your advocate.  Your credit card company is your next best alternative.  Generally AMEX is more friendly to these types of disputes. Myself I would have been less public in my dispute and would have certainly worked the system (included emails to Binder and FDR) before the public postings. But we do understand your frustrations as we have had several with O in the past  (from the Insignia fire, Cuba cancellations, Regatta breakdowns and COVID).

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

I want to pose a question for all?  Suppose you book a cruise from San Pedro, CA through the Panama Canal that ends in Ft Lauderdale.  A few weeks before your cruise the cruise line tells you that your cruise has been changed to an itinerary from San Pedro to Yokohama!   And that cruise line says if you don't like this change we will give you a time limited credit for a future cruise.  You would likely argue that the change constitutes a new cruise.  My point is that at some point we cross a line between a reasonable change in itinerary vs a significant change that makes it an entirely different cruise.  And this is what we think has happened with the 12/1 cruise.  The cruise line has simply done what they had to do to keep the Marina operating but in doing so they have completely changed that 12/1 cruise.  Having to disembark in a port that is about 1500 miles distant from the original port, is certainly a significant change.  Cruise lines like to fall back on their "passenger contract" which gives them the right to change itineraries but that is not without some kind of limitation (an issue cruise lines will avoid).  

 

While we do not question that "O" did their best to keep their scheduled itinerary ....they failed!  Many other cruise lines faced with similar issues in South/Central America simply cancelled their entire season in those waters.  But O has apparently made the decision to continue with the Marina's season and make whatever changes are necessary to keep the ship sailing.  That is certainly O's prerogative but they also should reasonably offer cruisers the option for a full refund.  In the early days of the pandemic cruise lines would offer some decent FCC incentives as an alternative to refunds, but ultimately left it up to the cruiser to decide whether they wanted their money back or a FCC.  The current policy of O is not to offer the cruiser any option but accept a FCC (not even enhanced) or take the cruise.  We do not find this policy reasonable. 

 

By the way, we did instruct our "cruise professional" (the terminology used by "O") to cancel our booking and it has been done.  

 

Hank

I would not expect many folks to closely follow the behaviors of only a specific cruise line as do I.

 

Oceania was extremely accommodating and generous with bonus FCCs (in addition to partial or full refunds/FCCs [your choice] as appropriate) during 2020.
However, as 2021 showed that Covid was not going away and the CDC tightened Cruise restrictions, O realized that the enforced lack of cruising would leave them with a cabin availability problem for FCC holders who were bound by O’s traditional FCC policy of “book by” 1 year later and “cruise by” 2 years later (at most). So, as cruising looked like it would resume by the end of 2021, O (several months ago) decided to issue no more FCCs for NEW booking that they might eventually need to cancel AND to limit any new FCCs for existing bookings to “cruise by” 12/31/22.  Initially, this caused a high booking demand from existing FCC holders. But, in a somewhat “fortunate” occurrence, O’s needing to cancel early 2022 OZ/NZ et al. Asian cruises and reconfigure them, provided greater cabin availability for the FCC holders - none of whom had “cruise by” deadlines after 12/31/22.

Right now, there is still adequate cabin availability to satisfy most holders of “cruise by 12/31/22” FCCs (including all whose cruises [booked prior to the “no NEW booking FCCs” decision] might be among the few now needing significant itinerary changes (including yours).
 

AND, whether you (or I) like it or not, O’s T&Cs do not provide for any compensation when O has not cancelled a cruise. Nonetheless, In your case, O is doing the cruise and, as a courtesy, they offered you an opportunity to cancel without penalty AND receive a 100% FCC (of course, limited to the 12/31/22 “cruise by” deadline O has established as the “return to normal” target.

This strategy may not make you happy. But, given the current circumstances for an industry facing an uncertain future over which they have zero control, O’s current balanced refund/FCC policies are the fairest they can be in order to care for their passengers while protecting itself.

 

FWIW: I gave you an FCC deadline extension strategy (transfer to a SPECIFIC cruise of equal or greater cost involving approval of an extended FCC “cruise by” deadline within the first quarter of 2023). You should’ve used it.

 

I doubt that your efforts to get a refund, instead of the generous 100% FCC because YOU cancelled, will be successful. IMO, that 12/31/22 FCC date is a steadfast target for O’s “return to normalcy.” And O’s “formula for success” (with a very specific target demographic) which has worked very well over its 15+ year existence, will witness no significant change  in the foreseeable future (particularly with the increasing NCLH leadership changes adding more execs with a history of  significant Oceania and Prestige Holdings experience  (O and Regent years ago).

 

Now, you and some other disgruntled passengers may say “never again” for an O cruise. And, should any of my five 2022 segments (totalling 100+ nights) be modified to my disliking, I may find myself pis*ed off enough to also swear off Oceania. But, as with any industry: BFD. We are “rounding errors” in the daily “bottom line” of a small cruise line with perhaps the most loyal following in the industry and constant demand for cabins years in advance.

 

Nonetheless, we trust O to do the “right thing” (within reason). They have always treated us fairly including making reasonable exceptions to some of their rules/regulations.

 

Hopfully, you’ll use your FCC by the deadline (and even try my strategy despite not having the “transfer” due to your cancellation). There is a real possibility of getting the extension. But, it will NEVER be open ended with no Specific cruise on the table.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Flatbush Flyer

[Hlitner]

3 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

I would not expect many folks to closely follow the behaviors of only a specific cruise line as do I.

 

Oceania was extremely accommodating and generous with bonus FCCs (in addition to partial or full refunds/FCCs [your choice] as appropriate) during 2020.
However, as 2021 showed that Covid was not going away and the CDC tightened Cruise restrictions, O realized that the enforced lack of cruising would leave them with a cabin availability problem for FCC holders who were bound by O’s traditional FCC policy of “book by” 1 year later and “cruise by” 2 years later (at most). So, as cruising looked like it would resume by the end of 2021, O (several months ago) decided to issue no more FCCs for NEW booking that they might eventually need to cancel AND to limit any new FCCs for existing bookings to “cruise by” 12/31/22.  Initially, this caused a high booking demand from existing FCC holders. But, in a somewhat “fortunate” occurrence, O’s needing to cancel early 2022 OZ/NZ et al. Asian cruises and reconfigure them, provided greater cabin availability for the FCC holders - none of whom had “cruise by” deadlines after 12/31/22.

Right now, there is still adequate cabin availability to satisfy most holders of “cruise by 12/31/22” FCCs (including all whose cruises [booked prior to the “no NEW booking FCCs” decision] might be among the few now needing significant itinerary changes (including yours).
 

AND, whether you (or I) like it or not, O’s T&Cs do not provide for any compensation when O has not cancelled a cruise. Nonetheless, In your case, O is doing the cruise and, as a courtesy, they offered you an opportunity to cancel without penalty AND receive a 100% FCC (of course, limited to the 12/31/22 “cruise by” deadline O has established as the “return to normal” target.

This strategy may not make you happy. But, given the current circumstances for an industry facing an uncertain future over which they have zero control, O’s current balanced refund/FCC policies are the fairest they can be in order to care for their passengers while protecting itself.

 

FWIW: I gave you an FCC deadline extension strategy (transfer to a SPECIFIC cruise of equal or greater cost involving approval of an extended FCC “cruise by” deadline within the first quarter of 2023). You should’ve used it.

 

I doubt that your efforts to get a refund, instead of the generous 100% FCC because YOU cancelled, will be successful. IMO, that 12/31/22 FCC date is a steadfast target for O’s “return to normalcy.” And O’s “formula for success” (with a very specific target demographic) which has worked very well over its 15+ year existence, will witness no significant change  in the foreseeable future (particularly with the increasing NCLH exec changes adding more Oceania and Prestige Holdings (O and Regent years ago) 

 

Now, you and some other disgruntled passengers may say “never again” for an O cruise. And, should any of my five 2022 segments (totalling 100+ nights) be modified to my disliking, I may find myself pis*ed off enough to also swear off Oceania. But, as with any industry, BFD. We are “rounding errors” in the daily “bottom line” of a small cruise line with perhaps the most loyal following in the industry and constant demand for cabins years in advance.

 

Nonetheless, we trust O to do the “right thing” (within reason). They have always treated us fairly including making reasonable exceptions to some of their rules/regulations.

 

Hopfully, you’ll use your FCC by the deadline (and even try my strategy despite not having the “transfer” due to your cancellation). There is a real possibility of getting the extension. But, it will NEVER be open ended with no Specific cruise on the table.

With all due respect we disagree with much of what you say in this post.  We are not "disgruntled" but I would readily accept the word "disappointed" in both the massive changes to our originally booked cruise and "O"s offered solutions.  As to all the internal O issues regarding FCCs, future cruises, etc. none of that is relevant to the simple issue that O has chosen to make significant changes to an already booked cruise that makes the cruise an entirely different voyage from what was originally booked.   No need to overthink this thing, speculate on O strategy, industry strategy, etc.  We are simply dealing with a consumer situation where one buys a product in good faith and is ultimately told to accept a different product.  And this person is not seeking any kind of gain or compensation other then to be made whole (return of funds paid for a cruise that no longer exists).

 

Hank

[Guppy99]

1 minute ago, Hlitner said:

With all due respect we disagree with much of what you say in this post.  We are not "disgruntled" but I would readily accept the word "disappointed" in both the massive changes to our originally booked cruise and "O"s offered solutions.  As to all the internal O issues regarding FCCs, future cruises, etc. none of that is relevant to the simple issue that O has chosen to make significant changes to an already booked cruise that makes the cruise an entirely different voyage from what was originally booked.   No need to overthink this thing, speculate on O strategy, industry strategy, etc.  We are simply dealing with a consumer situation where one buys a product in good faith and is ultimately told to accept a different product.  And this person is not seeking any kind of gain or compensation other then to be made whole (return of funds paid for a cruise that no longer exists).

 

Hank

Please read your contract. The cruise line is entitled to make changes if necessary. they do not have to refund your fare. However, any accommodation they do make, is to make an attempt at compensating you for any inconvenience.  What you feel entitled to, and what they are obligated to do are clearly different.  what they can do, if at all possible, is likely different again.

[Flatbush Flyer]

10 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

... We are simply dealing with a consumer situation where one buys a product in good faith and is ultimately told to accept a different product.....

You ACCEPTED the possibility of a “different product” when you purchased the cruise.

 

. CARRIER’S DISCRETION
As the Carrier, We reserve the right at any time, without notice or ..... (blah blah blah.)

(I won’t bore readers with the full text of the Ticket Contract to which you agreed.

[ak1004]

One correction: The FCC for this cruise "may be applied to any Oceania Cruises voyage departing by November 12, 2023, that is booked by November 12, 2022.

 

That's two full years. Personally I find it reasonable, although they could also provide a refund as a gesture of good will. I doubt they will do, and I don't think there is a case here if we look at the contract.

 

As for "never again" - over the years, we have seen many things done wrong by different lines. The latest example is 8 months that it took for Crystal to process our refund. If each time something like this happened we said "never again", we would run out of cruise lines very quickly..

[cptxcpl]

1 hour ago, cruisingxpert said:

@Hunding   There might be some very nice upsells on this cruise for those who are staying the course.

All the great Deck 7 PH are open now plus something in all the high end suites.

I have asked my TA to let me know of any "sales" on upgrades.

 

I have also asked my TA to look into applying the new $1000 FCC given to us for not canceling the cruise to this cruise. All the note says is that the $1000 can be applied to ANY future O cruise departing by 11/10/2023. I can't predict whether or not I will travel with O in the future. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by cptxcpl
Add information

[Flatbush Flyer]

46 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

One correction: The FCC for this cruise "may be applied to any Oceania Cruises voyage departing by November 12, 2023, that is booked by November 12, 2022.

 

That's two full years. Personally I find it reasonable, although they could also provide a refund as a gesture of good will. I doubt they will do, and I don't think there is a case here if we look at the contract.

 

As for "never again" - over the years, we have seen many things done wrong by different lines. The latest example is 8 months that it took for Crystal to process our refund. If each time something like this happened we said "never again", we would run out of cruise lines very quickly..

Oops! Got my dates mixed up a bit. So book within the next 12 months fit a cruise within the next two years! 
And Hank thinks this is unreasonable!???

Gimme a break- that’s VERY generous AND easily doable.

[YoPhilly]

On 11/10/2021 at 1:49 PM, edgee said:

Hard to disagree with your point. However, Ushuaia is beautiful. No "downtown Burbank." We were "stuck" there overnight 10 years ago when Antarctica portion of a Celebrity cruise was cancelled due to weather. Like an Alaskan port town but much more interesting with a more international flavor. Some great restaurants. Great natural beauty, of course.

I have to agree with you.  I spent one night in Ushuaia and would have loved another day or two.  There's so much to see and do in the area.

[Hunding]

2 hours ago, YoPhilly said:

I have to agree with you.  I spent one night in Ushuaia and would have loved another day or two.  There's so much to see and do in the area.

 Very happy to see this - looking forward to two days in Ushuaia!

[2552phxcrzr]

If you have two days in Ushuaia, highly recommend a trip out to Isla Martillo.  It's one of the best we've ever done.  In 2015, we chose to go with PiraTour, the only company licensed to land on the island and take visitors for a walk amongst the penguins.  While we were wandering with the penguins, other company boats simply came up to the shoreline and the passengers had to watch/photograph the penguins from the boat.  As a bonus, we also saw gentoo and king penguins.

 

On the first day in Ushuaia, you would be able to do the afternoon tour ... and if the ship is not leaving early on day 2, you could do the morning tour.  We did the morning tour

 

We chose the tour that combines with the Harberton Estate.  Half the group visited the museum there first and then switched places with the group that went to Isla Martillo to see the penguins first.

 

Write-up and photos at the following links:

 

Museum/Harberton: http://2totravel.blogspot.com/2015/05/ushuaia-ped-3-skeletons-penguins-and.html

 

Penguins: http://2totravel.blogspot.com/2015/05/estancia-harberton-penguins-of-isla.html

[KirkNC]

5 hours ago, 2552phxcrzr said:

If you have two days in Ushuaia, highly recommend a trip out to Isla Martillo.  It's one of the best we've ever done.  In 2015, we chose to go with PiraTour, the only company licensed to land on the island and take visitors for a walk amongst the penguins.  While we were wandering with the penguins, other company boats simply came up to the shoreline and the passengers had to watch/photograph the penguins from the boat.  As a bonus, we also saw gentoo and king penguins.

 

On the first day in Ushuaia, you would be able to do the afternoon tour ... and if the ship is not leaving early on day 2, you could do the morning tour.  We did the morning tour

 

We chose the tour that combines with the Harberton Estate.  Half the group visited the museum there first and then switched places with the group that went to Isla Martillo to see the penguins first.

 

Write-up and photos at the following links:

 

Museum/Harberton: http://2totravel.blogspot.com/2015/05/ushuaia-ped-3-skeletons-penguins-and.html

 

Penguins: http://2totravel.blogspot.com/2015/05/estancia-harberton-penguins-of-isla.html

We did the same tour once with Pira, it was great!

[Flatbush Flyer]

On 11/10/2021 at 11:49 AM, Hlitner said:

With all due respect we disagree with much of what you say in this post.  We are not "disgruntled" but I would readily accept the word "disappointed" in both the massive changes to our originally booked cruise and "O"s offered solutions.  As to all the internal O issues regarding FCCs, future cruises, etc. none of that is relevant to the simple issue that O has chosen to make significant changes to an already booked cruise that makes the cruise an entirely different voyage from what was originally booked.   No need to overthink this thing, speculate on O strategy, industry strategy, etc.  We are simply dealing with a consumer situation where one buys a product in good faith and is ultimately told to accept a different product.  And this person is not seeking any kind of gain or compensation other then to be made whole (return of funds paid for a cruise that no longer exists).

 

Hank

So, we’re all dying to know if the disposition of this cruise “refund vs FCC” worked out to your benefit(?)

[dszrew]

would travel insurance in this case allow for a refund? (probably not O insurance but third party insurance?)

[Hlitner]

On 11/15/2021 at 4:35 PM, Flatbush Flyer said:

So, we’re all dying to know if the disposition of this cruise “refund vs FCC” worked out to your benefit(?)

As we posted, we did ask our cruise agent to formally request a complete refund and did write an e-mail (forwarded to O) setting forth several reasons.  This was elevated to a higher level at O and they took about 2 days to approve our request.  The funds have all been credited back to our credit card.  So at this point we came out of this Marina mess absolutely whole.  Delta Airlines was very nice and gave us back our miles (and taxes) for our booked flight from Lima to BWI.  And we changed our flight to Florida (where we were going to join the Marina) to one day earlier so that we could get to our Princess ship (replaces the Marina cruise).  

 

At this point we have no reason to book any future O cruise.  We did spot one interesting itinerary on the new Vista but "O" is charging about $500 per passenger day which is actually more then we pay for some cruises on ultra-luxury lines.  None of this price inflation is surprising (O is not alone doing this) since the cruise lines are trying to degrade the value of all the FCCs they have granted by boosting prices.  As a "student" of the cruise industry we are closely watching multiple lines to see how these massive price increases play out!  In the case of "O" are couples going to be willing to pay over $1000 per day (per couple) to get a normal balcony cabin?  Time will tell and it will be interesting to see the pricing once we are past the expiration dates of all those FCCs.  

 

For those of us who are "equal opportunity cruisers" and routinely cruise on many different lines it is still a good time to seek value (not necessarily low cost) with cruise vacations.  So, for example, while "O" might be a terrific cruise line one can cruise on Princess for less than half the price of "O."  And one can book lines such as Seabourn (truly all inclusive except for excursions) for less money than many O future cruises!   And one might consider that if booking many cruise lines (i.e. Seabourn, Princess, HAL, Cunard, Celebrity, etc) one can save thousands of dollars on Business Class airfare when compared to the ridiculous air program (or lack thereof) operated by "O."    Do not minimize this air issue as it can be huge in terms of dollars.    For example, if we were to take a Seabourn or Cunard cruise out of Singapore our savings for a decent airline's Business Class airfare (when compared to O) would be over $6000 (and possibly a lot more depending on the airline and the return flight).  Another example is that we have an upcoming Seabourn cruise that will end in Europe where we plan to spend a few weeks traveling.  Our return Business Class flight (from Prague in nice lay flat seats) will cost us about $1200 per person or at least $2000 per person less than "O" would charge us for those same flights.

 

So our take away from the recent mess with the Marina is to be appalled at "O"s awful air program.  It just does not compare to what is being offered by much of the competition.   Setting up a decent air program should be something that "O" considers.  It does not really add cost to the cruise line as it is a matter of entering agreements with various airlines or using a consolidator that will handle such things.

 

Hank

[Flatbush Flyer]

7 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

As we posted, we did ask our cruise agent to formally request a complete refund and did write an e-mail (forwarded to O) setting forth several reasons.  This was elevated to a higher level at O and they took about 2 days to approve our request.  The funds have all been credited back to our credit card.  So at this point we came out of this Marina mess absolutely whole.  Delta Airlines was very nice and gave us back our miles (and taxes) for our booked flight from Lima to BWI.  And we changed our flight to Florida (where we were going to join the Marina) to one day earlier so that we could get to our Princess ship (replaces the Marina cruise).  

 

At this point we have no reason to book any future O cruise.  We did spot one interesting itinerary on the new Vista but "O" is charging about $500 per passenger day which is actually more then we pay for some cruises on ultra-luxury lines.  None of this price inflation is surprising (O is not alone doing this) since the cruise lines are trying to degrade the value of all the FCCs they have granted by boosting prices.  As a "student" of the cruise industry we are closely watching multiple lines to see how these massive price increases play out!  In the case of "O" are couples going to be willing to pay over $1000 per day (per couple) to get a normal balcony cabin?  Time will tell and it will be interesting to see the pricing once we are past the expiration dates of all those FCCs.  

 

For those of us who are "equal opportunity cruisers" and routinely cruise on many different lines it is still a good time to seek value (not necessarily low cost) with cruise vacations.  So, for example, while "O" might be a terrific cruise line one can cruise on Princess for less than half the price of "O."  And one can book lines such as Seabourn (truly all inclusive except for excursions) for less money than many O future cruises!   And one might consider that if booking many cruise lines (i.e. Seabourn, Princess, HAL, Cunard, Celebrity, etc) one can save thousands of dollars on Business Class airfare when compared to the ridiculous air program (or lack thereof) operated by "O."    Do not minimize this air issue as it can be huge in terms of dollars.    For example, if we were to take a Seabourn or Cunard cruise out of Singapore our savings for a decent airline's Business Class airfare (when compared to O) would be over $6000 (and possibly a lot more depending on the airline and the return flight).  Another example is that we have an upcoming Seabourn cruise that will end in Europe where we plan to spend a few weeks traveling.  Our return Business Class flight (from Prague in nice lay flat seats) will cost us about $1200 per person or at least $2000 per person less than "O" would charge us for those same flights.

 

So our take away from the recent mess with the Marina is to be appalled at "O"s awful air program.  It just does not compare to what is being offered by much of the competition.   Setting up a decent air program should be something that "O" considers.  It does not really add cost to the cruise line as it is a matter of entering agreements with various airlines or using a consolidator that will handle such things.

 

Hank

I’m glad that O did what you requested (however, sorry that you’ll not get to eat the food- yum - and, over time, develop some wonderful/genuine crew relationships that will have you feel like it’s a second home every time you step onboard)!

 

IMO, a positive take-away for folks new to Oceania is what I have often stressed here on CC: O Is very good about considering requests for reasonable policy exceptions on a case-by-case basis.

 

As for the Air issue: it’s no concern for many O regulars (including me) who always take the air credit and DIY air tix. Those of us who have elite FF status, in particular with United (and, by association, with its Star Alliance partners) can get exactly the bizclass itinerary they want with a 5-15 minute phone call (including asking the right questions) and, should changes become necessary (as is now a seemingly regular occurrence in the Cruise world), actually have someone immediately answer the phone and not be charged change fees.

Again, glad the refund worked out. FWIW, we had about a half dozen cruise segments modified/cancelled by O in 2020-21 and when the dust settled, O’s $ refunds and a few bonus FCCs found us coming out “ahead of the game” (though, of course, at the cost of not traveling). 

 

[Hlitner]

5 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

I’m glad that O did what you requested (however, sorry that you’ll not get to eat the food- yum - and, over time, develop some wonderful/genuine crew relationships that will have you feel like it’s a second home every time you step onboard)!

 

IMO, a positive take-away for folks new to Oceania is what I have often stressed here on CC: O Is very good about considering requests for reasonable policy exceptions on a case-by-case basis.

 

As for the Air issue: it’s no concern for many O regulars (including me) who always take the air credit and DIY air tix. Those of us who have elite FF status, in particular with United (and, by association, with its Star Alliance partners) can get exactly the bizclass itinerary they want with a 5-15 minute phone call (including asking the right questions) and, should changes become necessary (as is now a seemingly regular occurrence in the Cruise world), actually have someone immediately answer the phone and not be charged change fees.

Again, glad the refund worked out. FWIW, we had about a half dozen cruise segments modified/cancelled by O in 2020-21 and when the dust settled, O’s $ refunds and a few bonus FCCs found us coming out “ahead of the game” (though, of course, at the cost of not traveling). 

 

I did expect you to respond :).  And I do agree with you that missing the food is a big negative.  On the plus side (pun intended) we generally do not have to worry about gaining a lot of weight on a Princess cruise :).  

 

I think you miss my point regarding O air...so you need to open your mind :).  Like you (and with your advice) we did our own air for that Marina cruise and were made whole by the cooperative airline.  But on many of our flights around the world we do not have the miles (or want to use an airline where we have no status) and simply want to buy Bus Class at a good price.  Accessing the biggest discounted Business Class Fares  (sometimes called "P" fares) is only possible when booking through some travel companies/cruise lines or truly rolling the dice with consolidators (we do not recommend this).   A $5000 Business  Class fare can become a $1200 Business Class fare if you are dealing with CCL products....but this does not happen with O.  It begs the question, "why not?"  A Premium Cruise Line (to use your term) should also offer a premium air booking experience :).   O needs to correct this issue which would simply be a win-win for both O and its customers.  There are many exotic O itineraries we would have booked (in the past) except for O's ridiculous air program.  If I am looking at a few cruise options and trying to decide between several cruises/cruise lines it is often the air that will seal the deal.  While the air is not an issue for cruises from domestic ports (we never use cruise air in these cases) it remains a huge issue and expense on exotic itineraries.

 

Hank

[ORV]

So in the end Oceania did the right thing.. 

 

Just one point, you mention you could go on Princess for 1/2 the price. I'm sure you've cruised them many times but for me it was a one and done. I personally wouldn't cruise Princess for a 1/4 of the price. I'm not that picky or a cruise snob, I am completely ok with Costa or Royal Caribbean. 

 

Good luck with your future travels

[Flatbush Flyer]

14 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I did expect you to respond :).  And I do agree with you that missing the food is a big negative.  On the plus side (pun intended) we generally do not have to worry about gaining a lot of weight on a Princess cruise :).  

 

I think you miss my point regarding O air...so you need to open your mind :).  Like you (and with your advice) we did our own air for that Marina cruise and were made whole by the cooperative airline.  But on many of our flights around the world we do not have the miles (or want to use an airline where we have no status) and simply want to buy Bus Class at a good price.  Accessing the biggest discounted Business Class Fares  (sometimes called "P" fares) is only possible when booking through some travel companies/cruise lines or truly rolling the dice with consolidators (we do not recommend this).   A $5000 Business  Class fare can become a $1200 Business Class fare if you are dealing with CCL products....but this does not happen with O.  It begs the question, "why not?"  A Premium Cruise Line (to use your term) should also offer a premium air booking experience :).   O needs to correct this issue which would simply be a win-win for both O and its customers.  There are many exotic O itineraries we would have booked (in the past) except for O's ridiculous air program.  If I am looking at a few cruise options and trying to decide between several cruises/cruise lines it is often the air that will seal the deal.  While the air is not an issue for cruises from domestic ports (we never use cruise air in these cases) it remains a huge issue and expense on exotic itineraries.

 

Hank

I understand your “first world” plight. 

But, the air piece really does appear to be of ZERO interest to O. And their “carrot” in that arena is “you can have the air credit.”

 

O has had a “formula for success” that has worked very well for more than 15 years. They fill their ships and have a very regular following (regardless of the air). O’s focus is solely on the Cruise experience -particularly the food, service and great itineraries.  I just do not see it (particularly the air) changing. 

Right now, O’s prime mover is filling the new Allura class ship, Vista, and the one that will follow in the next few years after Vista. Based on past performance, those ships will fill too (regardless of the air).

 

Bottom line is that, while I agree that it would be nice for some potential O cruisers to have a “better” air department, O really doesn’t need it to fill their ships.

[Flatbush Flyer]

30 minutes ago, ORV said:

So in the end Oceania did the right thing.. 

 

Just one point, you mention you could go on Princess for 1/2 the price. I'm sure you've cruised them many times but for me it was a one and done. I personally wouldn't cruise Princess for a 1/4 of the price. I'm not that picky or a cruise snob, I am completely ok with Costa or Royal Caribbean. 

 

Good luck with your future travels

Yes- the cruise industry is one where “you get what you pay for.” Years ago, we cruised on the likes of NCL and RCCL. Each was a “one and done” (terrible food, thundering herds, nickel/diming). No thanks!

[shepherd really]

2 hours ago, ORV said:

So in the end Oceania did the right thing..

It would have been much more impressive if "in the beginning" Oceania did the right thing, rather than in the end. 

 

I guess us "rounding errors" expect better treatment than that.  

[Flatbush Flyer]

16 minutes ago, shepherd really said:

It would have been much more impressive if "in the beginning" Oceania did the right thing, rather than in the end. 

 

I guess us "rounding errors" expect better treatment than that.  

Oceania did the “right thing” in the beginning by following its clearly established and communicated policy. It also immediately explained that a refund request (when O did not cancel the cruise) in writing would be given careful consideration. It sounds like Hank followed the established protocol and quickly had his request approved. 

[shepherd really]

9 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Oceania did the “right thing” in the beginning by following its clearly established and communicated policy. It also immediately explained that a refund request (when O did not cancel the cruise) in writing would be given careful consideration. It sounds like Hank followed the established protocol and quickly had his request approved. 

It actually looks like you were wrong when you said flatly that he was SOL because of the TOS.  It's really OK to admit when you are wrong, you won't, but it's really OK. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

9 minutes ago, shepherd really said:

It actually looks like you were wrong when you said flatly that he was SOL because of the TOS.  It's really OK to admit when you are wrong, you won't, but it's really OK. 

The sum total of my many responses (on this issue) to Hank et al. basically said: “You are SOL if you expect O (or any cruise line) to violate its own T&Cs without adhering to its regular process for requesting exceptions.”  

I’ve also posted in many similar “complaint” threads here on CC that O will consider exceptions to policies on a case-by-case basis. In addition, I offered several other approaches (beyond) a formal request for refund to come to some solution.

 

He chose the O request and got what he asked for.

 

The purpose of your need to tell me I was wrong?