Another Problem for Canadian Cruisers

[MsDolly]

3 hours ago, nickiford said:

They have changed the language again on the Govt website, they have eliminated saying just those arriving by land and sea and now it says "if selected" for the test will need to quarantine until they get the results.  It will take them some weeks I imagine for this to apply to all people.

 

 

Someone in the Government needs to shake their heads.  How do they expect this can happen and why do they want to spend the money testing fully vaccinated and previously PCR test residents coming home.  I can live with a random sample but 100%, crazy!

[K_e_short]

22 minutes ago, MsDolly said:

Someone in the Government needs to shake their heads.  How do they expect this can happen and why do they want to spend the money testing fully vaccinated and previously PCR test residents coming home.  I can live with a random sample but 100%, crazy!

 

If I want to rant and try to figure out the rationale I would say that currently the rules say within 72 hours.

So I guess their thought process is that what if someone gets their pcr test at exactly 72 hours.. and they have been out of the country for weeks or months... and right after their pcr test they have covid.

That situation would make sense.

 

The issue is that most of us are out of the country less then 10 days, and our PCR tests are being done the day we travel or the day before.

 

I'm also wondering what the science says about an antigen test within 24 hours, which is the US rules. I would like to think that makes it the most likely if someone has Covid to test positive, right?

 

So yes it's optics and the test on arrival should really be based on how long you've been gone and when you got your original pcr test.

 

 

 

[visagrunt]

This is the price of travel in the winter of 2022.  Until we get a clearer picture of the omicron variant, and see where trend lines are going, this is going to be the new reality.

If you want to travel, factor this into your plans.  At least no one is talking about closing the border.

[Russ Lomas]

On 12/5/2021 at 9:47 AM, Chickadees said:

Royal did not charge. We were tested on Day 6 with results that evening. Paper copies were delivered to our stateroom the evening of Day 7. Took about 20 minutes and Royal was organized. 

Thanks for the update.  That is how it was for us in August as well.  Hope you had a wonderful cruise.

 

On 12/7/2021 at 11:31 AM, gnome12 said:

What difference does it really make to you to have another PCR test? You neither have to arrange it nor pay for it, and it doesn't stop you from returning home (even if that means taking a connecting flight). Yes, it will slow you down a bit, but that is really the only effect. (Arranging the first PCR test can be, as we have seen, a problem.)

Our big problem is not having to take a 2nd PCR test (on the same day - which is stupidity in itself, but hey, that is our Canadian government), but the problem is having to possibly take another 3 days at home in isolation AFTER the vacation without pay from work, even though we are fully vaccinated, had booster shots, AND already had a negative PCR test done 5 or 6 hours previously.

 

On 12/7/2021 at 11:34 AM, broberts said:

Cruise lines have to provide CPB manifests listing all passengers prior to departure. Voyage itineraries are public knowledge.

I am sure this is only provided to the US officials and not to officials of Canada and every other country in the world for every single cruise, therefore, only the US officials would have access to that information.

[gnome12]

21 minutes ago, Russ Lomas said:

Our big problem is not having to take a 2nd PCR test (on the same day - which is stupidity in itself, but hey, that is our Canadian government), but the problem is having to possibly take another 3 days at home in isolation AFTER the vacation without pay from work, even though we are fully vaccinated, had booster shots, AND already had a negative PCR test done 5 or 6 hours previously.

I just note that maybe for you it is a second PCR test on the same day; for other people it can be over 3 days apart, and yes, it is possible to test negative in the first test and positive in the second.

[broberts]

1 hour ago, Russ Lomas said:

I am sure this is only provided to the US officials and not to officials of Canada and every other country in the world for every single cruise, therefore, only the US officials would have access to that information.

 

Canada and the US have extensive information sharing agreements to assist in border protection and law enforcement. I don't know if arrivals by cruise ship data is accessible to Canadian agents, but I would not discount the possibility.

[DHLuCruise]

10 hours ago, broberts said:

 

Canada and the US have extensive information sharing agreements to assist in border protection and law enforcement. I don't know if arrivals by cruise ship data is accessible to Canadian agents, but I would not discount the possibility.

 

Its not worth the risk. My plan is when crossing by land is to try to use a NEXUS crossing if I can and be very narrow about how I answer the questions. If they explicitly ask, I'll answer -- If they dont ask.. I wont volunteer info. (General good practice with border guards anyways)

[Fouremco]

11 hours ago, Russ Lomas said:

Our big problem is not having to take a 2nd PCR test (on the same day - which is stupidity in itself, but hey, that is our Canadian government), but the problem is having to possibly take another 3 days at home in isolation AFTER the vacation without pay from work, even though we are fully vaccinated, had booster shots, AND already had a negative PCR test done 5 or 6 hours previously.

Unfortunately, the GOC has to design programs for the entire population and can't customize them for each individual traveller's travel itinerary, vaccination status or employment circumstances.

 

12 hours ago, Russ Lomas said:

I am sure this is only provided to the US officials and not to officials of Canada and every other country in the world for every single cruise, therefore, only the US officials would have access to that information.

@Magicat recently provided a link that will allow you to check your passport history:

Mine clearly shows post-cruise arrivals, and you can be assured that CBSA has direct access to the same information from CBP.

 

2 minutes ago, DHLuCruise said:

 

Its not worth the risk. My plan is when crossing by land is to try to use a NEXUS crossing if I can and be very narrow about how I answer the questions. If they explicitly ask, I'll answer -- If they dont ask.. I wont volunteer info. (General good practice with border guards anyways)

Just remember to ensure that your answers to questions in the ArriveCAN app are as accurate as if posed by a CBSA officer directly. 

[xcell]

8 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Unfortunately, the GOC has to design programs for the entire population and can't customize them for each individual traveller's travel itinerary, vaccination status or employment circumstances.

 

 

 

I dunno, if they put some thought in it, I think they could come up with some protocols that make sense.

 

Just like when they changed it to if you take a PCR youcan travel across the border and comeback within 3 days without having to take a new one.

 

Then they eliminated that entirely.

 

Why not say if you have had a PCR test within one day, no need to take another one when back in Canada?

 

Then if it is 3 days plus, then you need one? 

 

I dunno but it really makes me think there's a dart board that they randomly shoot darts at and pick the rule of the day.

 

 

[Fouremco]

11 minutes ago, xcell said:

Just like when they changed it to if you take a PCR youcan travel across the border and comeback within 3 days without having to take a new one.

There was no change made. You require a PCR test taken within 72 hours in order to re-enter Canada. There was never any requirement that the test be taken outside Canada. Smart Canadians simply took advantage of the existing rule.

 

16 minutes ago, xcell said:

 

Then they eliminated that entirely.

No, the requirement for a PCR test to be taken within 72 hours remains intact. What has changed is the introduction of a waiver for visits to the US under 72 hours in length.

 

24 minutes ago, xcell said:

Why not say if you have had a PCR test within one day, no need to take another one when back in Canada?

I believe that the whole question of risk identification and mitigation, and the timing of tests and follow up tests, needs to be thoroughly re-examined before any changes are made.

 

In the mean time, the vast majority of of returning Canadians won't need to have 2 PCR tests on the same day under the current requirements. 

[peacefrogdog]

On 12/5/2021 at 9:45 AM, Chickadees said:

Cruise on Royal was excellent. All had a great time and the hassle with air travel was worth it because we had all documentation ready to go.

 

YUL-FLL (Air Canada) - Downloaded all documents to their website but we still had to wait about 20 minutes in the Air Canada lineup. They want to see copies/scans of all records/tests etc. Stamped with Docs OK on boarding pass. Immigration hall was full (about 30 minutes) but we used Nexus line so through in less than 10 minutes. 

 

FLL-YUL (Air Canada) So arrived at YUL from FLL last night. At FLL, from check-in to getting through the secure side took about 1 hour. New policies are not in place so my experience may be different. It must be difficult for airlines to keep up.

 

Before checking bags with Air Canada, they had a document line where you had to show passport, vaccine proof, Covid test results. Your passport was given a sticker with “V” on it. This process took a long time because people were not prepared with all their documentation. Make sure you get a paper copy of your results. Royal gave us copies as well as email results. Royal was organized. I saw a group from Princess who missed or didn’t get on flights because Princess did not send results. Also saw two UK citizens who were transiting through Montreal who were denied boarding because their PCR test would not be valid to go to LHR.

 

We had TSA pre-check with Nexus through security so no wait.

 

Landing at YUL - Process from getting off the plane to arrivals area took about an hour. Immigration hall at 8 pm was packed.

 

Make sure your ArriveCan App is up and ready to show. Before we were allowed in the departure hall, we had to show that we had completed information the ArriveCan App. This created a back up as there was a separate line (no signage) for those without completing ArriveCan. 

 

Through Immigration Hall in about 20-30 minutes. For those who have Nexus, don’t recommend it unless there is no line up. Going through regular line with many kiosks and agents was faster. Got bags and out the door. 

 

They (government) random test passengers on arrival. The guy sitting beside me on the plane and a note on his boarding pass to test on arrival. If you have this, it would have added another 30 minutes to the immigration process. The arrivals area has been transformed into a Covid testing centre. 

 

Thanks for sharing.  A few questions based on your experiences on Royal.

 

1.  On the ArriveCAN app, it asks to specify in what country  you received your negative molecular COVID-19 test from (i.e. PCR).  If you got yours on the ship, what did you put down ? USA? Bahamas?

 

2.  If your cruise stopped at CoCoCay - did you list that as part of the Bahamas?

 

3. Did you have one ArriveCan app for every member of the travelling party? or did each person in your travel party have to have it completed separately on their phones?

[melbrook]

We will be flying FLL-DTW then driving across the border after our cruise. I just read an article about people getting fined for having their PCR test outside of the USA before crossing. I had planned to get tested onboard..I assume this doesn't count as being tested in the USA?  We have until 6pm in the airport so time to pay $$$ for a rapid PCR but I'd rather not. I was counting on the cruise test to come back to Canada.  

 

"You must take a molecular test in the United States within 72 hours of your planned entry into Canada"

[Graycruise]

We just returned last week from a cruise where we flew in and out of DTW.  We got the cruise ship provided test and used that upon crossing at the bridge.  There was no issue at all.  The test result sheet clearly shows the cruiseline name.  As far as the Arrive Can thing goes, the border agent didn't want to see the receipt or the QR code as he said he could see all of this information was attached to our passport when he scanned it.

[Fouremco]

12 hours ago, melbrook said:

We will be flying FLL-DTW then driving across the border after our cruise. I just read an article about people getting fined for having their PCR test outside of the USA before crossing. I had planned to get tested onboard..I assume this doesn't count as being tested in the USA?  We have until 6pm in the airport so time to pay $$$ for a rapid PCR but I'd rather not. I was counting on the cruise test to come back to Canada.  

 

"You must take a molecular test in the United States within 72 hours of your planned entry into Canada"

Could you please provide the source for your statement in quotation marks. To the best of my knowledge, the GOC requirements do not specify where the test must be taken as they apply to travellers from all countries.

[ladysail2]

12 hours ago, melbrook said:

We will be flying FLL-DTW then driving across the border after our cruise. I just read an article about people getting fined for having their PCR test outside of the USA before crossing. I had planned to get tested onboard..I assume this doesn't count as being tested in the USA?  We have until 6pm in the airport so time to pay $$$ for a rapid PCR but I'd rather not. I was counting on the cruise test to come back to Canada.  

 

"You must take a molecular test in the United States within 72 hours of your planned entry into Canada"

I believe that with the ship being in U.S. waters that it’s deemed to be on U.S. soil and therefore a PCR test taken aboard upon entry into the U.S.  port fulfills the requirement above. 

[melbrook]

7 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Could you please provide the source for your statement in quotation marks. To the best of my knowledge, the GOC requirements do not specify where the test must be taken as they apply to travellers from all countries.

 

Absolutely - it's from an article in our local paper and the quote is from Anne Genier, a spokesperson for The Public Health Agency of Canada.  If you read the article there is a lot of finger pointing and "it's not us, it's them" going on.  All I want is clarity - I am happy to follow the rules, just tell me what they are.  

 

https://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/confusion-over-strict-border-crossing-rules-leads-to-hefty-fines-for-windsorites

 

[peacefrogdog]

3 hours ago, Graycruise said:

We just returned last week from a cruise where we flew in and out of DTW.  We got the cruise ship provided test and used that upon crossing at the bridge.  There was no issue at all.  The test result sheet clearly shows the cruiseline name.  As far as the Arrive Can thing goes, the border agent didn't want to see the receipt or the QR code as he said he could see all of this information was attached to our passport when he scanned it.

 

The ArriveCAN app asks to indicate what country you received the PCR test. As you got the test on the ship, what did you list as the country? 

[melbrook]

3 hours ago, Graycruise said:

We just returned last week from a cruise where we flew in and out of DTW.  We got the cruise ship provided test and used that upon crossing at the bridge.  There was no issue at all.  The test result sheet clearly shows the cruiseline name.  As far as the Arrive Can thing goes, the border agent didn't want to see the receipt or the QR code as he said he could see all of this information was attached to our passport when he scanned it.

That is very encouraging to hear - thank you for an example of our exact scenario.  When you filled out the CanArrive App where did you say you got the test?  I understand the agent didn't want to see it but I am curious what you put on the app for location.  We usually use the tunnel but I may just take the bridge when we get back!  😉

[AlbertaCruisers]

12 hours ago, melbrook said:

We will be flying FLL-DTW then driving across the border after our cruise. I just read an article about people getting fined for having their PCR test outside of the USA before crossing. I had planned to get tested onboard..I assume this doesn't count as being tested in the USA?  We have until 6pm in the airport so time to pay $$$ for a rapid PCR but I'd rather not. I was counting on the cruise test to come back to Canada.  

 

"You must take a molecular test in the United States within 72 hours of your planned entry into Canada"

 

18 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Could you please provide the source for your statement in quotation marks. To the best of my knowledge, the GOC requirements do not specify where the test must be taken as they apply to travellers from all countries.

 

Interestingly, that wording isn't there for flights but it is still on the government of Canada's website in relation to arriving on the land boarder.  The wording from the website is below (https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/covid-vaccinated-travellers-entering-canada).  I do remember this being an issue in the summer but I thought it had got changed.  

 

Flying to Canada - when to take your test

 

You must take a molecular test within 72 hours of the scheduled departure time of your flight to Canada.

If you have a connecting flight:

• the test must be taken within 72 hours of the scheduled departure time of your last direct flight to Canada
• you may need to schedule the test in your transit city

 

Arriving by car, bus, boat, ferry or train from the United States

You must take a molecular test in the United States within 72 hours of your planned entry into Canada

[Fouremco]

18 minutes ago, melbrook said:

 

Absolutely - it's from an article in our local paper and the quote is from Anne Genier, a spokesperson for The Public Health Agency of Canada.  If you read the article there is a lot of finger pointing and "it's not us, it's them" going on.  All I want is clarity - I am happy to follow the rules, just tell me what they are.  

 

https://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/confusion-over-strict-border-crossing-rules-leads-to-hefty-fines-for-windsorites

 

Thanks. In reading your original post, I missed the fact that the couple in question had entered Canada by car and thought we were dealing with a flight arrival. And of course, the regulations do require the test to have been taken in the US in this case:

 

 

AC, you beat me to the Send button! 😊

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Fouremco

[melbrook]

43 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Thanks. In reading your original post, I missed the fact that the couple in question had entered Canada by car and thought we were dealing with a flight arrival. And of course, the regulations do require the test to have been taken in the US in this case:

 

 

AC, you beat me to the Send button! 😊

 

 

 

 

So the question remains...does my Celebrity PCR test qualify as a test taken in the USA? 

 

A previous post said theirs was fine...waiting to hear how they filled out the app.  The fines don't sound like they're worth the risk of "hoping" it is ok.  Do I just get one at FLL to cover all bases?  Such dilemmas.  Thanks for all your help Fouremco - you are a valuable resource indeed!  

[Fouremco]

31 minutes ago, ladysail2 said:

I believe that with the ship being in U.S. waters that it’s deemed to be on U.S. soil and therefore a PCR test taken aboard upon entry into the U.S.  port fulfills the requirement above. 

Of course, your ship is likely to still be in international waters for those lines that test on the last full day of the cruise.

 

I think that this is simply one more scenario that wasn't even considered when ArriveCAN was developed. And for the majority of Canadian cruisers who fly home from the US port of disembarkation, it really doesn't matter where they were tested. There have been several examples on the Celebrity board of people getting tested in Mexico within the 72 hour hours of their scheduled flight home without any issue.

 

However, it does become a potential issue for those driving across the border following the cruise if some CBSA officer notices that the test date preceded the disembarkation date and decides to challenge the traveller. As a very broad statement, when in international waters you are subject to the laws of the country under whose flag the ship is registered. So for the ArriveCAN app question on where you were tested, as you aren't otherwise in any country, would you be considered to be "in" Panama if your ship is registered there?

 

Personally, unless clarification is forthcoming, I'll indicate the US.

[Fouremco]

2 minutes ago, melbrook said:

 

So the question remains...does my Celebrity PCR test qualify as a test taken in the USA? 

 

A previous post said theirs was fine...waiting to hear how they filled out the app.  The fines don't sound like they're worth the risk of "hoping" it is ok.  Do I just get one at FLL to cover all bases?  Such dilemmas.  Thanks for all your help Fouremco - you are a valuable resource indeed!  

Thanks for the kind words.

 

I was still writing when you made this post, so my response doesn't exactly match your question. Quite honestly, I very much doubt that this will be an issue, but I fully understand your concern. As the Auditor General has pointed out, the whole entry process is in a mess, and I suspect that some of the more serious issues will be getting the governments attention right now.

 

Contacting CBSA directly might be your best approach right now if you want an official interpretation. CC members' experiences may well suggest that you'll be ok, but you might be that unlucky guy who hits a cranky CBSA officer when entering. Trying to phone or write might not be very productive, but you could try dropping in at their office at your nearest airport or land crossing.

[Graycruise]

4 hours ago, melbrook said:

That is very encouraging to hear - thank you for an example of our exact scenario.  When you filled out the CanArrive App where did you say you got the test?  I understand the agent didn't want to see it but I am curious what you put on the app for location.  We usually use the tunnel but I may just take the bridge when we get back!  😉

We put US.  The cruiseline letterhead shows a Miami address, so that seemed appropriate.  As far as bridge vs tunnel goes, we always check border wait times - but unfortunately ArriveCan won't let you do either/or options for land crossing (no surprise, would be nice to select "Windsor" vs bridge or tunnel).  We had submitted with the bridge as crossing location, but if we had wanted to switch to tunnel, we would have had to do a new submission.

[nickiford]

Oh great, another thing to worry about.  This is absolute insanity.  We get a PCR test onboard the ship on Saturday, fly home to Buffalo Sunday, drive across the border and there is a possibility for them not to accept the PCR test because it was done in the wrong location?!?  As long as the test is in the timeframe it should be acceptable. 

 

These people that write these policies really don't think of all of the possible scenarios.  I'm getting on the ship in the US, having the test done when we are literally on our way back to the US,  that's a US test as far as I'm concerned.   I would love to see how these charges ever hold up in court.  Let's not forget the purpose....how does not accepting the Celebrity test increase the risk of Covid...it doesn't!!!! 

 

If this actually becomes a thing, I just won't bother with free PCR on Celebrity and just go to Walgreens in Buffalo when we get back.    I would love for people to continue to post about their experiences returning home for this aspect as well as the random soon to be all arrival covid testing and the quarantining.