Danube water levels 2022 and similar topics - plus tips and info

[Daisi]

Uniworld may not have as many ships out this year, so can't run one from each end like other lines. That is what is usually done, one sails up, the other sails down, and they "meet" in the low water level to swap passengers.

 

Rain can change things quickly, so most lines will "hold their breath" hoping that the forecasted weather holds. If they can just get enough to go by, they will.  

[notamermaid]

Quote: "I called the cruise company and they just feigned not knowing and said everything looks good so far as they know!  Can you believe that?" @Seattle1964 that sounds not the right approach when answering a worried call by a customer. Perhaps they meant for your itinerary everything looks okay? I obviously cannot help you with that as I am not on the Danube, but let us monitor the situation here as best we can. Did I understand it correctly that you have the option to cancel if you know in good time what is happening? Or will just not go if you have to be on a coach? With so much money involved not an easy time for you.

 

Pfelling gauge is not recovering (yet). 242cm.

 

On 16 July Esztergom gauge was at 78cm, today it is at 37cm.

 

This is the gauge at Budapest today:

 

Even I can tell that this is low. I cannot relate it to navigation, but I think we can conclude that the levels are falling beyond Austria and unless it rains a lot over a wide area in the Danube catchment area levels will continue to fall. And unless the weather pattern beyond Hungary is different from upstream the Danube there will follow suit with low levels if they are not already doing so. Which is what brag's recent experience seems to suggest.

 

The river is also getting too warm, causing the fish stress. A concern.

 

notamermaid

 

[bluestocking7]

Although it was 8 years ago now, we were on an Avalon river cruise from Budapest to Bucharest.  Due to low water the cruise ended a day early, and instead of a 2-hour bus trip from the Danube to Bucharest, we did a 9-hour bus trip, stopping at a restaurant on the way for lunch.  So not ideal, but could have been worse.  

 

(In response to request for people to post their lower Danube low-water experiences.....)

[Daisi]

@bluestocking7, when we did our Rhine cruise, we were fine, but our S-i-L who followed us a month later hit major drought. I looked at out trip that if we ended up on a bus, we got to see more of the countryside than planned. Not sure how they did your bus trip, but whenever we had to go anywhere needing a bus, we got a scenic route.  I think we were on a highway only once.

 

[steamboats]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

Quote: "I called the cruise company and they just feigned not knowing and said everything looks good so far as they know! "

 

Because they don´t know a thing... the call centers or offices are in the US or whereever. Nobody in those call centers does have a clue about the current status of a river in Europe (or elsewhere).

 

I remember waking up at 6 am in the morning and checking my mails. A friend of mine wrote me that my ship won´t be going where it was supposed to go... We were supposed to fly to the US on Thursday. We immediately contacted the cruise line and the first reply was... no the cruise will be as scheduled. Not until we replied but your captain onboard told us that due to low water the ship is not able to go but will be rerouted they checked and then admitted we´re right. We had to rearrange our connection in the US (for some good extra money). Onboard we learned that many of the pax didn´t get the information until Friday - the cruise started on Saturday. Sometimes it´s good to have friends 😉 - the bad thing was that due to the itinerary change we didn´t meet our friend as planned. The good thing we met with other friends...

 

steamboats

[Seattle1964]

3 hours ago, steamboats said:

Because they don´t know a thing... the call centers or offices are in the US or whereever. Nobody in those call centers does have a clue about the current status of a river in Europe (or elsewhere).

Well, it was several days after customers received the low-water alerts via e-mail so the only reason they wouldn't know it, also, is if they're not informed by the company they work for.  I get that they're probably not booking immediate cruises (likely all sold out) but they are the primary point of contact and should be well-informed and/or know who to contact for time-sensitive information.

Can't imagine calling an airline about pending changes (over 20% delayed or cancelled in 2022) and the customer service representative saying they don't know anything about possible cancellations or the reasons behind them.

Someone knows something because I received a notice from the cruise company.  And it was 48 hours after my friends received their... so something's fishy.  🐟

Also, the rep told me that one of their centers is right there in Budapest... so they definitely aren't out of the loop on information.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Seattle1964

[Canal archive]

Different company I know but Scenic has an European office in Switzerland. So I suspect other companies do as well.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Canal archive

[steamboats]

@Canal archive it´s the same with almost all river cruise companies. My example was a US company for a river cruise in the US. But you can call a German river cruise company and those folks answering the phone don´t have a clue about river gauges and such either.

 

steamboats

[fairydustca]

14 minutes ago, steamboats said:

@Canal archive it´s the same with almost all river cruise companies. My example was a US company for a river cruise in the US. But you can call a German river cruise company and those folks answering the phone don´t have a clue about river gauges and such either.

 

steamboats

Yup. I called Viking yesterday to find out when the last day was that I could change the date on my August cruise. She seemed like a very friendly and kind person. She asked why I wanted to change and I told her we were concerned about water levels on the Grand European cruise and ships not being able to navigate parts of the rivers. She stated "No worries, there are no water level problems happening on that cruise right now. Nothing has been reported". She went on to tell me that it was raining and flooding where she lives in Massachsetts. She was not aware at all about what was happening in Europe. 

[Haqdeluxe]

14 minutes ago, fairydustca said:

She went on to tell me that it was raining and flooding where she lives in Massachsetts.

She might be right that rain in Massachusetts can have an effect on rivers in Europe... I  mean maybe! 🤷 But I suspect it will be some time before any effects get there. 🤦

[fairydustca]

22 minutes ago, Haqdeluxe said:

She might be right that rain in Massachusetts can have an effect on rivers in Europe... I  mean maybe! 🤷 But I suspect it will be some time before any effects get there. 🤦

😄

[TAC1582]

I'm on the Viking Romantic Danube cruise thes Sunday. I was just notified that the cruise will start in Passau instead of Regensburg. Busses wii take people to Regensburg on day 2 for shore excursions. Day 3 will be in Passau as normally scheduled. (See below). Hopefully the rest of the cruise to Budapest will go on with no other disruptions.

--‐-------------

Due to low water levels on the Danube River near Passau, your ship will be unable to reach its regular embarkation port in Regensburg and you will now embark in Passau (75 miles east of Regensburg). As a result of these changes, we have made the following adjustments to your program:

Day 1:	On arrival at the airport on Day 1 of your itinerary, please collect your luggage, exit customs and find the airport representative in the arrivals area for transfer to your ship. If you are already in Europe traveling independently or are unable to locate the Representative, proceed to the regular docking location for transfer to your ship.
Day 2:	Transfer by motorcoach to your shore excursions in Regensburg.
Day 3:	Resume previously advised itinerary.

For guests joining us on our pre-trip extension
For guests joining us for our pre-trip extension, you will be transferred to your ship at the new docking location on Day 1 of your main itinerary.

[notamermaid]

4 minutes ago, TAC1582 said:

I'm on the Viking Romantic Danube cruise thes Sunday. I was just notified that the cruise will start in Passau instead of Regensburg.

That sounds good standard procedure. I am sure this will run smoothly and would say that Viking has informed you in good time.

 

Have a great trip.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

2 hours ago, fairydustca said:

up. I called Viking yesterday to find out when the last day was that I could change the date on my August cruise. She seemed like a very friendly and kind person. She asked why I wanted to change and I told her we were concerned about water levels on the Grand European cruise and ships not being able to navigate parts of the rivers. She stated "No worries, there are no water level problems happening on that cruise right now. Nothing has been reported".

Yeaahh... I feel a bit sorry for that person. While communication in writing with the passengers seems to be quite good now (see case in post above and I recall similar e-mails being mentioned) there seems to be a gap in communications like a cut cable to the representatives on the phones. There is room for improvement and for passengers sake it would be more than nice to see that improvement.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Pfelling has reached a new low, i.e the lowest it has been so far this year. Let us have a look at the graph:

 

It was 236cm at 21:45 hours. It may drop further a little as the night progresses of course. The lowest ever recorded figure is set at 228cm (August 2018).

 

notamermaid

 

 

[Seattle1964]

25 minutes ago, TAC1582 said:

I'm on the Viking Romantic Danube cruise thes Sunday. I was just notified that the cruise will start in Passau instead of Regensburg.

Looks like you're on the Viking Atla which is a 135m ship (442 ft).  The necessary draught for that ship is about 280cm and that's too low for some ports.  Navigating the river and docking at a port have different criteria and low water doesn't mean no water navigation but sometimes missing a port or two.  If it gets bad enough, then it does prevent navigation.  The River Duchess is stuck in Budapest instead of heading to Amsterdam to pick up people, for example.

Fingers crosses, but so far ships are navigating from Passau to Bucharest even if just a not more cautiously.  Whatever the small changes (not a complete bus tour!) you will have a great time and plenty to see as most of what is to be enjoyed is on shore.  🙂 

[steamboats]

8 hours ago, Seattle1964 said:

Looks like you're on the Viking Atla which is a 135m ship (442 ft).  The necessary draught for that ship is about 280cm and that's too low for some ports. 

 

All Viking ships on the Rhine/Main/Danube rivers are the same longships. And they have a pretty deep draft of 1.90 m. 280 cm would be another 90 cm under the keel which is pretty much.

 

@TAC1582 and @fairydustca your experiences are a great example. Those who are in the call centers don´t have a clue (or are not allowed to say a word to keep you on the booking). And those who are to inform the passengers - usually on a very short notice - know exactly what´s going on. 

 

steamboats

[notamermaid]

4 hours ago, steamboats said:

All Viking ships on the Rhine/Main/Danube rivers are the same longships. And they have a pretty deep draft of 1.90 m. 280 cm would be another 90 cm under the keel which is pretty much.

Yes, I think there must be a typo somewhere along the way. The shipyard gives the same draft (more or less) for both the Viking longships and the Arosa ships. I remember reading the 1.90m somewhere either on their website or since then somewhere else. Among the 135m ships they rate as the deeper ones, but not the deepest. I do not recall which ship that is. It is important to note that shipyard info and later info can vary and the tracker sites may vary again, as every ship naturally has a draft when empty and a draft when full of ballast water and passengers. The difference between the two will vary from ship to ship.

 

There have been several accounts of passengers over the years saying that their ship went through the shallows without them and the captain/crew had drained some water, giving the ship valuable less draft of several centimetres.

 

I doubt this is possible at Pfelling right now, i.e. I would think the 135m ships do not have that choice right now as the level is really too low. Happy to be proven otherwise!

 

Pfelling has reached 228cm:

 

 

A ship that will be able to sail through with ballast and passengers is on its way from Regensburg to Passau and depending on muscle power may already be navigating the shallows now. If you happen to be in Passau in the next few days and spot it, believe me it is real and you are not suffering from weird effects of a beer garden visit or sunstroke. A Roman galley is on the Danube. What am I saying - it is three! Okay, replicas of originals found by archeologists.

 

notamermaid

 

[travelingman]

@notamermaid,  have you seen ant pictures of the Roman Galleys?

 

Stan

[notamermaid]

15 minutes ago, travelingman said:

@notamermaid,  have you seen ant pictures of the Roman Galleys?

 

Stan

Here is one report:

https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/nachgebaute-roemische-galeeren-erreichen-regensburg,TBwq5t3

 

With short video:

https://www.mittelbayerische.de/region/regensburg-stadt-nachrichten/roemerschiffe-in-regensburg-ueber-passau-gehts-bis-nach-rumaenien-21179-art2139194.html

 

notamermaid

 

[Seattle1964]

10 hours ago, steamboats said:

 

All Viking ships on the Rhine/Main/Danube rivers are the same longships. And they have a pretty deep draft of 1.90 m. 280 cm would be another 90 cm under the keel which is pretty much.

 

@TAC1582 and @fairydustca your experiences are a great example. Those who are in the call centers don´t have a clue (or are not allowed to say a word to keep you on the booking). And those who are to inform the passengers - usually on a very short notice - know exactly what´s going on. 

 

steamboats

As is the River Duchess (135m), which has been holed up at Budapest since Saturday unable to make it to Amsterdam.

The Aros Aqua, another 135m longship, has a draught of 160cm and the Modigliana comes in at 130cm. (thanks, notamermaid)  It just depends on how they are weighted/ballasted.  Get everyone off the ship and dump water and things change... problem is: You're no longer on the ship.

[gnome12]

1 hour ago, Seattle1964 said:

As is the River Duchess (135m), which has been holed up at Budapest since Saturday unable to make it to Amsterdam.

The Aros Aqua, another 135m longship, has a draught of 160cm and the Modigliana comes in at 130cm. (thanks, notamermaid)  It just depends on how they are weighted/ballasted.  Get everyone off the ship and dump water and things change... problem is: You're no longer on the ship.

The River Duchess is a 110m ship. It might be holed up in Budapest because no other ship is available for a ship swap. 
 

As to getting everyone off and dump water, that is usually done when passengers are on a long excursion, hoping that is long enough for the ship to move slowly through the low area. 

[notamermaid]

2 minutes ago, gnome12 said:

As to getting everyone off and dump water, that is usually done when passengers are on a long excursion, hoping that is long enough for the ship to move slowly through the low area.

Indeed, that is the idea. It has worked recently for @StartrainDD on their Viking ship. The last Viking ship to be able to use that option before Pfelling gauge fell too low. The next logistical stage is ship swaps. Or cancellations. By the way, Viking is known for not cancelling cruises. They have a policy of providing the experience of the ports with ship swaps and if that is not possible with coach trips. Something to be aware of when booking. Definitely always read the terms and conditions of any river cruise line before you book.

 

notamermaid

 

[Canal archive]

Picture this - shallow river, water dumped from from river boat, passengers on shore, ropes on boat to shore and passengers hauling on the ropes. No coaches needed or ship swaps ohhh what fun, I think not. Fingers crossed or a dance for rain.

[notamermaid]

1 minute ago, Canal archive said:

Fingers crossed or a dance for rain.

I would tend to agree. Not convinced yet that the rain of this afternoon will bring much lasting relief. On the Rhine, the few extra centimetres could do the trick to avoid ship swaps for now, on the Danube many more centimetres are needed to bet back to a decent level. I have hopes for the Lech carrying a decent amount of water again as it has rained in the area quite a bit, but will it be enough to help the Danube with more than just a couple of centimetres? Question is also if the heavy rain this evening will mostly go to the Neckar catchment area or to the upper reaches of the young Danube (West of Ulm).

 

We will know more tomorrow morning. And I will be back to report around lunchtime.

 

notamermaid