Manfredi interested in buying Crystal

[Silver Spectre]

There’s an article on Seatrade in which Manfredi is expressing an interest in buying Crystal. He claims he has made an offer and also tried last year.

[les37b]

I hope it's not to find a place to hang those awful paintings.

 

I wonder how much debt he'd have to clear!

[bitob]

All of us on the Crystal boards know it would take a miracle.

 

I don't mind the paintings.

[dawntrdr]

Wouldn't he be bound by a non-compete agreement when they sold Silversea to RCI?

[Silver Spectre]

31 minutes ago, dawntrdr said:

Wouldn't he be bound by a non-compete agreement when they sold Silversea to RCI?

Unlikely, but if so for how long.

[TLCOhio]

2 hours ago, Silver Spectre said:

There’s an article on Seatrade in which Manfredi is expressing an interest in buying Crystal. He claims he has made an offer and also tried last year.

 

How "fresh" and/or "stale" is this supposed interest for Manfredi buying Crystal???  Was Manfredi really that seriously interested or was it just speculation by those in the media who like to dream up and/or repeat rumors/gossip?  

 

Since the Crystal situation got much more tangled and then they closed down totally in an ugly manner, it seems that the "body" of this cruise line has become much more "dead" and of a long-shot.  

 

Great question/factor regarding "a non-compete agreement".  I am sure that Royal Caribbean carefully wrote that section to prevent any such competition/conflicts.  Given the current market, the ages/sizes of the Symphony and Serenity ships, etc., I cannot image that Manfredi would want to play under those types of conditions.  To bring back Crystal from the "dead zone", it would take a magician with deep, deep financial backing.  Manfredi has lots of Royal Caribbean stock (at a depressed value), but how liquid would those assets be now?

 

Many questions and tall mountains to climb??

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

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[Daveywavey70]

2 hours ago, dawntrdr said:

Wouldn't he be bound by a non-compete agreement when they sold Silversea to RCI?

Also it depends on what type of agreement if there is one. Maybe he is precluded from either owning or running, or possibly both, and for what length of time?

[Stickman1990]

3 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

How "fresh" and/or "stale" is this supposed interest for Manfredi buying Crystal???  

Here’s the article - the most recent offer appears to be very fresh

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/finance/manfredi-lefebvre-confirms-his-quest-buy-crystal-cruises

[Hanoverian]

Have to agree with Terry.  The river boats will sell just fine on their own as will Endeavor, but trying to handcuff all of them together as one sale lot is going to go over with a loud thud.  Creditors with other lines would be very unhappy about having to buy a 90s era ship (many of these presently on the beaches of India and Pakistan) and Serenity is not that special in light of Dawn, Moon, Ovation, Venture, Splendor, Evrima, etc.  Faster and more profitable for Crystal creditors to sell the ocean ships individually and the river boats as a lot.  It seems to me that one would have to start from scratch to rebuild Crystal ocean in a luxury cruise line environment that is a bit crowded at present.

[TLCOhio]

17 hours ago, Stickman1990 said:

Here’s the article - the most recent offer appears to be very fresh

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/finance/manfredi-lefebvre-confirms-his-quest-buy-crystal-cruises

 

Appreciate this follow-up from Stickman1990.  Yes, it appears that this offer is "very fresh".  BUT, the question centers around . . . how "ripe" is this offer?

 

Not all offers are "real" and on target.  Without knowing the details and specifics for such an offer, it is hard to evaluate and know for certain.  

 

Hanoverian from Virginia raised some excellent points and key questions.  Given the challenges with the world-wide cruising market, I cannot believe that Manfredi was overly generous and/or naive/unsophisticated as to what he proposed.  And, who might be teaming with Manfredi in making this offer?  Manfredi is wealthy on paper, but the cash needed to bring back Crystal would be a sizable pot.  Lots of uncertainty!!  Details make a difference.  Super agree on the point of "luxury cruise line environment that is a bit crowded at present."  Crystal was very world-wide with its exotic ports and unique itineraries.  Today, many of those locations are limited and/or closed, nor of interest due to a variety of factors.  Right or wrong?

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

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[labrasett]

Theres a whole bunch of potential interpretations here.   Is Manfredi still Chairman of SS and probably still has a significant (though not controlling) shareholding?   Would he actually be wanting all of Crystal or just the bits which might fit with a newly formed business plan.  Would he, if able, want the two cruise ships plus the expedition ship but to move off the river cruise ships?   The press will say what they want but the transaction may be different in the event.

[Older Party]

It's been ages since I've been on these boards, but was very interested in Crystal's demise, as Cliff Perry created the excellent entertainment that was a hallmark of Crystal Cruises.  Sadly, Silversea hasn't the same mindset as Crystal where entertainment is concerned, especially since Cliff left and no one replaced him, or at least no one of his caliber and resume.  Sadly, entertainment is not of particular importance to Mr. Lefebvre.  In the 3.5 years Choozi had the entertainment contract, it was reported to me he never saw a single one of our shows, even though our ratings were consistently in the high 8's and 9's.  I would be sad for Cliff's legacy should he purchase Crystal. 

 

PS...this is Suzanne * btw.  I can't find my name and password to post here, so used an old friend's account, which is saved in my computer. 😉 

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Older Party

[RachelG]

The only part of Crystal that I can see Manfredi being interested in would be Endeavor.  The older big ships will probably go to the scrap heap.  And even though I think the river ships are over built right now in Europe, I would think the Crystal ones would be very attractive for the right party to purchase, perhaps to replace older outdated ones, but not Manfredi unless he is looking to get into an entirely new type of business. 

[Stickman1990]

4 hours ago, Older Party said:

as Cliff Perry created the excellent entertainment that was a hallmark of Crystal Cruises.  Sadly, Silversea hasn't the same mindset as Crystal where entertainment is concerned, especially since Cliff left and no one replaced him, or at least no one of his caliber and resume.  

I don’t know anything about Cliff Perry but interestingly one of the ex Crystal senior Entertainment execs started at Silversea the week before Crystal collapsed - so you might expect to see change happening with the Silversea entertainment offer 

[cruiseej]

It's hard to understand how Manfredi Lefebvre d’Ovidio can still own a one-third share of Silversea and serve as its board's Executive Chairman, while also being the chairman of Heritage Group (his family trust's private equity group focused on travel and tourism), which now holds an 85% share of Abercrombie & Kent, of which he serves as Co-Chairman (along with A&K founder and now minority owner Geoffrey Kent).

 

Aren't there blazing conflicts of interest here? How can Royal Caribbean have a top executive who also heads another luxury travel company, and is seeking to purchase a competing cruise line? He's involved at the highest levels of planning for Silversea's future for the next 5-10 years, while at the same time trying to purchase a luxury cruise competitor at fire sale prices which could compete head-to-head with Silversea,  ir could be merged with Abercrombie & Kent as a competitor to Silversea. 

[Older Party]

On 2/16/2022 at 3:24 PM, Stickman1990 said:

I don’t know anything about Cliff Perry but interestingly one of the ex Crystal senior Entertainment execs started at Silversea the week before Crystal collapsed - so you might expect to see change happening with the Silversea entertainment offer 

Cliff was a legendary Cruise Director for Cunard, then Princess when it was P&O, became the Entertainment Director for Royal Viking Cruise Lines, then was head hunted to create the entertainment for Crystal Cruises, eventually landing at Disney as the Entertainment Director when Disney entered the cruise market.  Oh the stories at that juncture in his career.  I was a member of the PowerChyx, a group of women who were mostly Disney Ops people (you know, high level female execs who worked in a man's world?)  Disney knew nothing about maritime so hired the top echelon of maritime executives at that time ... enter Cliff, and well ... let's just say the stories are as ribald as he was. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Older Party
grammar

[Stumblefoot]

20 minutes ago, Older Party said:

…let's just say the stories are as ribald as he was. 

I would love to hear these stories someday Suzanne whilst saying on SS. I’m sure I’d be captivated.

[PaulMCO]

On 2/16/2022 at 4:47 PM, cruiseej said:

It's hard to understand how Manfredi Lefebvre d’Ovidio can still own a one-third share of Silversea and serve as its board's Executive Chairman, while also being the chairman of Heritage Group (his family trust's private equity group focused on travel and tourism), which now holds an 85% share of Abercrombie & Kent, of which he serves as Co-Chairman (along with A&K founder and now minority owner Geoffrey Kent).

 

Aren't there blazing conflicts of interest here? How can Royal Caribbean have a top executive who also heads another luxury travel company, and is seeking to purchase a competing cruise line? He's involved at the highest levels of planning for Silversea's future for the next 5-10 years, while at the same time trying to purchase a luxury cruise competitor at fire sale prices which could compete head-to-head with Silversea,  ir could be merged with Abercrombie & Kent as a competitor to Silversea. 

He does not own any of SS..  Despite what his web page says.  Typical Manfredi...(bloviator extraordinaire). 

 

He sold the remainder 1/3 interest in 2020 for RCCL shares.

[cruiseej]

2 hours ago, PaulMCO said:

He sold the remainder 1/3 interest in 2020 for RCCL shares.

 

@PaulMCO Ugh, I knew that; my mistake. But according to the press release from Royal Caribbean at the time they competed the acquisition in 2020, Manfredi was to continue to serve as Silversea's "Chairman". I don't understand why a wholly-owned subsidiary company needs a board of directors and chairman. Roberto Martinoli is President and CEO of Silversea, reporting to Royal Caribbean Group President and CEO Jason Liberty. I don't see any mention of  Manfredi on the RCG Leadership web page. What is this Chairman role Manfredi occupies? Was that just an honorary title in place of calling him an "advisor"? Does he still serve in that role, or was it quickly and quietly phased out?

 

My main questions is whether he is actively involved in whatever Silversea is planning for the future. As the primary owner of Abercrombie and Kent, and someone bidding to acquire a rival luxury cruise brand and its ships, I can't understand how that wouldn't be a conflict of interest for Silversea and RCG.

 

If anyone understands the corporate chess board better than I, I'd appreciate any education you can provide. 😉

[Stumblefoot]

2 hours ago, cruiseej said:

I'd appreciate any education you can provide. 😉

He is no longer Executive Chairman and SS no longer has a Chairman role.

[cruiseej]

10 hours ago, Stumblefoot said:

He is no longer Executive Chairman and SS no longer has a Chairman role.

 

Thanks. That makes sense to me since SS is completely a subsidiary of Royal Caribbean Group. But when RCG bought the remaining one-third of Silversea from Manfredi in mid 2020, that's when they stated he would remain as Chairman of SS. So he and his company no longer have any official ties to management/leadership of RCG? I would have  also thought he'd have some sort of non-compete provision in the purchase agreement, barring him from competing directly running a cruise line for several years. (While A & K competes for luxury travel dollars, it's not a direct competitor like he would be if he bought Crystal.)

[TLCOhio]

8 hours ago, cruiseej said:

when RCG bought the remaining one-third of Silversea from Manfredi in mid 2020, that's when they stated he would remain as Chairman of SS. So he and his company no longer have any official ties to management/leadership of RCG? I would have  also thought he'd have some sort of non-compete provision in the purchase agreement, barring him from competing directly running a cruise line for several years. (While A & K competes for luxury travel dollars, it's not a direct competitor like he would be if he bought Crystal.)

 

Appreciate these great follow-ups from Stumblefoot and our friend in the Philadelphia suburbs.  Many, many interesting questions as to whether Manfredi has the flexibility, contractual freedom and/or resources to complete a Crystal purchase and blooming re-birth.    

 

From Bloomberg News three days ago, they had this headline: “Crystal Cruises’s Epic Demise Leaves Customers Out $100 Million—or More" with this sub-headline: "The company went from being worth an estimated $1 billion to having a bank account of zero in weeks.  Those left in the lurch are scrambling to pick up the pieces.”

 

Here are some of their story highlights: “The most-awarded luxury cruise line in the industry, Crystal Cruises, unceremoniously shuttered its doors, with not a word to consumers nor travel agents. Abandoned by its parent company, it leaves a trail of debt—to travelers, who’d put down payments and deposits for sailings into 2024; to agents owed commissions; to employees in offices; to crew still on ships; and to unpaid vendors.   Although $4.6 million in outstanding fuel bills were central to Crystal’s demise, the signs of trouble appeared weeks earlier in a string of dominoes triggered by the insolvency of a German shipyard.  Crystal is currently responsible for more than $100 million in customer deposits and payments, all held in reserve accounts under the control of various credit card companies. It’s unclear, however, what assets Crystal has left, beyond computers and office furniture, some bonds, those reserve accounts, and whatever marketing value lies in its customer, travel agent, employee, and crew databases. The company’s fleet, as it turns out, was not owned by the cruise line but amounts to secured assets of preferred creditors. Before the line shutdown, Monty Mathisen, editor of Cruise Industry News, was predicting potential buyout prices for the Crystal Cruises brand of $1 billion to $2 billion. The story now looks significantly different. Much of that value had to do with its brand equity and loyal customers. The ships, he says, are not likely to fetch more than $400 million for the secured creditors.”

 

This highly-detailed story by an experienced travel writer outlines how very complicated and challenging is the current Crystal situation.  Seriously doubt that Manfredi can just scoop up the old Crystal and make it "magic" again.  Not the best timing and circumstances.  Too complex, costly and challenged. Too pessimistic or just realistic?

 

Full story at:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-16/crystal-cruises-epic-bankruptcy-leaves-customers-agents-out-100-million?srnd=premium

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

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[crusinbanjo]

2 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

 

2 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

 

story now looks significantly different. Much of that value had to do with its brand equity and loyal customers. The ships, he says, are not likely to fetch more than $400 million for the secured creditors.”

 

This highly-detailed story by an experienced travel writer outlines how very complicated and challenging is the current Crystal situation.  Seriously doubt that Manfredi can just scoop up the old Crystal and make it "magic" again.  Not the best timing and circumstances.  Too complex, costly and challenged. Too pessimistic or just realistic?

 

Full story at:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-16/crystal-cruises-epic-bankruptcy-leaves-customers-agents-out-100-million?srnd=premium

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

Maybe not buy the line and try to resurrect it, but scoop the ships at a bargain price and start something new?  Who knows, certainly I don’t but if things turn around and Covid goes away, something like that I think could be possible.

Edited February 19, 2022 by crusinbanjo

[Hanoverian]

Realistic, Terry.  Thanks much for the Bloomberg article.  There is not much to say after reading it, and I feel very sorry for the Crystal Faithful who are the ultimate victims in all of this.  Nothing but further sad news in the future, I think.

[Kate-AHF]

I would think there would be huge interest in Endeavor.  That said, the cruise line owned the shipyard while it was being built.  This obliviates several layers of oversight in the product produced - and invites shortcuts on an unbelievable level..  I wouldn't trust it.  I'd send a bevy of engineers to make sure this ship is what she purports to be.