A dining nightmare on allure..

[LeeW]

Lines were long at 6:45 on Symphony as well.  The dining room is used for early fixed seating before that and you have to wait until the tables clear.  They don't start seating the reservations until then.  However after the first night they started pulling people from both res and non-res lines to go to the other dining rooms.  We stuck with waiting, since we wanted the same table but lots of folks did not.  As others have said, if you don't want the long wait don't show up when they first open.

[bajathree]

34 minutes ago, Ptroxx said:

 

Every business in the world is understaffed because people just don’t want to work.

Thats absolute nonsense. Inflation is off the wall and the price of living has gone crazy.....but let's stay home and not work!?!?!?!?!. When did everyone win the lottery and become millionaires and not have to work anymore. This is yet another COVID excuse....no one wants to work🙄

[orville99]

32 minutes ago, LeeW said:

The dining room is used for early fixed seating before that and you have to wait until the tables clear.

Don't understand why they are doing this. On Harmony, MTD has all of Deck 3, and decks 4 and 5 are for fixed seating. The biggest issues we've seen on our 5 Harmony cruises since the restart are that they seem to be doing OJT for waitstaff who are unfamiliar with Oasis class ships, and a shortage of BOH chefs, prep staff, and runners.

Edited May 18, 2022 by orville99

[Starry Eyes]

I really liked MTD in it’s early form years ago.  Not any more, as it has changed on most ships.  Every time it comes up on cruise critic, I try to warn people about the new, unimproved MTD regime.  It started before the shutdown and made quite an impression on me on Harmony.  Now that passenger counts are are approaching full capacity, the really long lines when MTD finally opens are recurring.  It is not just a staffing shortage; it is the new system.

 

28 minutes ago, orville99 said:

Don't understand why they are doing this. On Harmony, MTD has all of Deck 3, and decks 4 and 5 are for fixed seating. The biggest issues we've seen on our 5 Harmony cruises since the restart are that they seem to be doing OJT for waitstaff who are unfamiliar with Oasis class ships, and a shortage of BOH chefs and prep staff.

That is not entirely correct.

Here us how it works on Harmony.  Traditional early dining uses decks 3, 4, and 5 at about 5 pm.  So all the tables are quickly and efficiently filled with assigned guests right away (except those tables that happen to be empty because guests elect to eat elsewhere that night).  MTD is not scheduled to start until about 6:30-7:00 or so (about when some early traditional diners finished with meals).  As the early traditional diners on deck 3 vacate their tables, the tables are cleaned and MTD guests are then seated.  Meanwhile, there is pent up demand for tables as many MTD guests expected to be able to get a table as early as 5pm (they did not read threads like this or did not believe them).  So the MTD line at opening is long.  Knowing the line is long, others with later reservations line up, hoping to reach the front of the line by the time if their reservation.  Also remember:if service for early dining guests happens to be slow for any reason, the early diners will of course exit later, making the MTD guests wait longer on nights when service is apt to be slow once they are finally seated; a recipe for frustration.  
 

Pre shutdown lines for MTD on deck 3 were so bad as we exited early traditional dining, we had difficulty getting past the waiting people to reach the elevators or the stairs to leave the area.  The people waiting in the (disorganized looking) end of the MTD line were cranky, some acting as though everyone going to the elevator or stair lobby was trying to cut into their line.  It made quite an impression on us.  We won’t do MTD, and I mo longer recommend it to anyone who likes to eat relatively early.
 

Late Traditional dining is on deck 4 and 5.  

Edited May 18, 2022 by Starry Eyes

[Ptroxx]

35 minutes ago, bajathree said:

Thats absolute nonsense. Inflation is off the wall and the price of living has gone crazy.....but let's stay home and not work!?!?!?!?!. When did everyone win the lottery and become millionaires and not have to work anymore. This is yet another COVID excuse....no one wants to work🙄

Come to Vegas.  There’s signs everywhere. People don’t want to work.  Don’t know how they are living/paying bills but it’s happening everywhere. 
no covid excuse at all just true facts.  
all the big companies having job fairs because they are so understaffed offering huge signing bonus.    Makes no sense but it’s everywhere. 
 

[Husky1987]

There is a HUGE difference between "people don't want to work" and "people don't want to work crap jobs for little money".

 

Just because ABC company can't find workers doesn't mean people are sitting at home watching TV.

 

Face it, it's more of a worker's world right now, and that's great.  If those companies with signs up want to hire more workers, they need to pay more.  Obviously the signing bonuses they are offering aren't enough to entice workers to leave the jobs they currently have.    

[Ptroxx]

30 minutes ago, Husky1987 said:

There is a HUGE difference between "people don't want to work" and "people don't want to work crap jobs for little money".

 

Just because ABC company can't find workers doesn't mean people are sitting at home watching TV.

 

Face it, it's more of a worker's world right now, and that's great.  If those companies with signs up want to hire more workers, they need to pay more.  Obviously the signing bonuses they are offering aren't enough to entice workers to leave the jobs they currently have.    

Co. ABC are paying more.  Many companies have raised their min wage.   
workers are being unrealistic in there wants in pay.  

but some small companies have to be realistic in what they pay as to not go bankrupt 
kinda like college student’s graduate and demand to make 100k a year right out of school.    That’s crazy.  
all the delivery companies are hiring like crazy. But people don’t want to work their way to top scale.   Yes you can make 100k a year. But not this year. Everything takes time and experience.  

https://fortune.com/2022/04/27/college-grad-salaries-expectations-reality/

[topnole]

6 hours ago, gsalbato said:

We'll be on the Symphony in late July. Really hoping RC gets things straightened out by then. Either lower the capacity or figure out a way to get more crew.

And how do they lower capacity?   Can you imagine the complaining when they start canceling X% of the people due to staffing issues.  Then people would complain and say they’d rather deal with some staffing issues than have their vacation canceled.  

[topnole]

5 hours ago, rudeney said:

 

Except that if customers continue to buy their products and services, they will have no incentive to improve.  I've said this before - if you truly receive poor service that is below the value that you paid for, then demand that the service provider adjust the price and give you a refund or credit.  This is the only way they are going to know to change things.  Surveys and "strongly worded letters" will get read, but as long as the cash flow remains steady, they have no incentive to change anything.

 

No one is due a refund just because they think the service didn’t meet their standard.  Now If they didn’t give one a room or the meals guaranteed in the contract, that is one thing.  But just because one thinks the service was poor doesn’t mean a refund is due.  The norm would be to not return and go elsewhere.
 

Some are born to complain and some go with the flow.  I’m not interested in complainers getting rewarded like folks who return dead Christmas trees in January at Costco for a full refund.  That just raises the price for everyone else.  
 

If you think the service is bad, just try a different cruise line.  People complaining on here act like there is some easy fix to this issue.  There isn’t.  It is an extremely complex issue for cruise companies.  

[Oceansaway17]

18 hours ago, smeck said:

Had my time dining reservation for 6:45 tonight what a mess.  Lines around the corner.  I think they went to full capacity to quick and are not adequately prepared.   Also the barbecue at Labadee was worst than terrible. They cut  out many items and couldn’t keep up with demand.  On a positive note dinner in the Windjammer has never been better. In general I think Royal has some work to do and until they do I may have to expand my horizons with the only power I have my wallet.  

my time dining was a mess on Symphony as well 2 weeks ago.

Most folks in line gest 6;45 was too late. But they were using the dining room after the 5:15 early diners.

to me My time dining is not being handle the way it was intended when NCL created a few years ago.

 

But I also notice that each night the buffet got busier and busier.  I say this all the time, buffet is the place to go and less air conditioning too.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

6 hours ago, johnjen said:

If a company is understaffed, they need to cut way back on prices - or, shut down until they become fully staffed so that it doesn't adversely affect our satisfaction!

where do you propose the company then gets the money to hire more staff?

Of course, your satisfaction is at the top of everyone's list. 

[ReneeFLL]

8 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

Eat later, or earlier, problem solved…I never eat at the same time at home, not going to be tied to a set time on vacation for sure. 

We don’t either that’s why we like MTD.

 

8 hours ago, Yakker1749 said:

Well this is good to know about MTD, as I thought they had tables reserved for that option.  I'll be on the July 3rd sailing, doing 2 specialty restaurants and MTD the other nights.  Guess it's too late to switch a regular dining time huh. 

Call Royal or your TA and try to switch. If you can’t then switch when you get on board.

[ReneeFLL]

The only time we have had to wait for MTD and there was a line was on formal/lobster nights. We usually eat around 7:00 - 8:00 so that might make a difference.

[gsalbato]

2 hours ago, topnole said:

And how do they lower capacity?   Can you imagine the complaining when they start canceling X% of the people due to staffing issues.  Then people would complain and say they’d rather deal with some staffing issues than have their vacation canceled.  

You don't cancel current reservations, but you stop selling new ones.

[topnole]

9 minutes ago, gsalbato said:

You don't cancel current reservations, but you stop selling new ones.

Your acting like they know how many the will be in terms of surplus versus short staffed for a given cruise at a given time.    They don’t and if they don’t start filling the ships they will go out of business.  The don’t make money off of cruise fare.  They need all the extras and half full ships will bury any cruise ship company if it happens long enough.   I guess if people were will to pay double or triple they could do it.  But then again, that is what a few of the other more upscale lines do.  

[DukeASUGirl]

5 hours ago, Husky1987 said:

There is a HUGE difference between "people don't want to work" and "people don't want to work crap jobs for little money".

  

EXACTLY.

 

It's not that "people don't want to work." It's that they "don't want to work for YOU" (not you personally, of course).

 

If businesses are having trouble finding employees at the low wages they're offering, that tells you something. One of the biggest arguments people have made against raising minimum wage to $15/hr is that if people want to make more, they should educate themselves/improve their skills and get a better job or open their own business. Many, many people did just that, using the COVID shutdowns to go back to school or change to a different gig. 

 

So now they are unwilling to work the crappy jobs for low wages that they did in the past. They did exactly what folks told them to do.

[Ptroxx]

31 minutes ago, DukeASUGirl said:

EXACTLY.

 

It's not that "people don't want to work." It's that they "don't want to work for YOU" (not you personally, of course).

 

If businesses are having trouble finding employees at the low wages they're offering, that tells you something. One of the biggest arguments people have made against raising minimum wage to $15/hr is that if people want to make more, they should educate themselves/improve their skills and get a better job or open their own business. Many, many people did just that, using the COVID shutdowns to go back to school or change to a different gig. 

 

So now they are unwilling to work the crappy jobs for low wages that they did in the past. They did exactly what folks told them to do.

 For every person that’s advanced their education through covid there’s a kid in HS/college that should want to work those jobs.
But don’t because they have mommy and daddy babying them, Paying for everything. 
Ive been working my entire life. Since a young kid at my parents business. 
not these days.  Kids are entitled and don’t think they have to work.  
the young kids are the further.   But they don’t want to be.   
they would rather be on their parents couch playin video games. 
using their parents credit cards and living in the basement.  
you’ve gotta start somewhere.  Bussing tables.  Waiting tables Stocking shelves. Deliver pizza.  The minimum wage jobs that built America.  

if parents would step up and make kids work we wouldn’t have this big of a crisis.   

just my view.  
 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Ptroxx

[celoplyr]

6 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

I really liked MTD in it’s early form years ago.  Not any more, as it has changed on most ships.  Every time it comes up on cruise critic, I try to warn people about the new, unimproved MTD regime.  It started before the shutdown and made quite an impression on me on Harmony.  Now that passenger counts are are approaching full capacity, the really long lines when MTD finally opens are recurring.  It is not just a staffing shortage; it is the new system.

 

That is not entirely correct.

Here us how it works on Harmony.  Traditional early dining uses decks 3, 4, and 5 at about 5 pm.  So all the tables are quickly and efficiently filled with assigned guests right away (except those tables that happen to be empty because guests elect to eat elsewhere that night).  MTD is not scheduled to start until about 6:30-7:00 or so (about when some early traditional diners finished with meals).  As the early traditional diners on deck 3 vacate their tables, the tables are cleaned and MTD guests are then seated.  Meanwhile, there is pent up demand for tables as many MTD guests expected to be able to get a table as early as 5pm (they did not read threads like this or did not believe them).  So the MTD line at opening is long.  Knowing the line is long, others with later reservations line up, hoping to reach the front of the line by the time if their reservation.  Also remember:if service for early dining guests happens to be slow for any reason, the early diners will of course exit later, making the MTD guests wait longer on nights when service is apt to be slow once they are finally seated; a recipe for frustration.  
 

Pre shutdown lines for MTD on deck 3 were so bad as we exited early traditional dining, we had difficulty getting past the waiting people to reach the elevators or the stairs to leave the area.  The people waiting in the (disorganized looking) end of the MTD line were cranky, some acting as though everyone going to the elevator or stair lobby was trying to cut into their line.  It made quite an impression on us.  We won’t do MTD, and I mo longer recommend it to anyone who likes to eat relatively early.
 

Late Traditional dining is on deck 4 and 5.  

I agree this is the current practice.  It feels different than what happened in the before times, so we were caught off guard (it used to be 5:00 reservations, now the earliest is 6:30/6:45). 

 

We only started cruising because of MTD- my parents were very nervous about eating with others- and we have now switched to early dining because we want to eat at 5:30.  At least we are no longer in large tables, so Dad is happy still.

[grandgeezer]

13 minutes ago, topnole said:

Your acting like they know how many the will be in terms of surplus versus short staffed for a given cruise at a given time.    They don’t and if they don’t start filling the ships they will go out of business.  The don’t make money off of cruise fare.  They need all the extras and half full ships will bury any cruise ship company if it happens long enough.   I guess if people were will to pay double or triple they could do it.  But then again, that is what a few of the other more upscale lines do.  

Unless they are complete idiots, they know exactly how many of each category crew they need to satisfy the needs of the number of passengers on board. When it gets close quit selling bookings. Unless they have a fire sale I would think they don’t sell many cabins after final payment. That gives them three months to allocate crew.

At the current pricing levels, if passenger load is at a certain level, or higher, they sure are making money. Google it for the facts.

Service is a key point in keeping customers. If this understaffed situation last much longer, people are going to get fed up with it and move on. I read somewhere where it cost ten times as much to get a customer back as it does to keep him. It’s just a matter of time.

Ten years ago we knew about fifteen couples that cruised 3-4 weeks a year or more, now we know 0 and everybody has moved on just fine.

 

[cured]

6 hours ago, Ptroxx said:

Come to Vegas.  There’s signs everywhere. People don’t want to work.  Don’t know how they are living/paying bills but it’s happening everywhere. 
no covid excuse at all just true facts.  
all the big companies having job fairs because they are so understaffed offering huge signing bonus.    Makes no sense but it’s everywhere. 
 

Remember pre-covid when people would complain about their pay or working conditions, the snide answer would always be "If you don't like it, get another job?"

 

Well guess what? With so many jobs to pick and choose from right now, everyone is getting a better "another job" and not applying for the ones with crap pay and crap hours.

 

It has nothing to do with people not wanting to work. That is a political line being used to make one side angry.  It has everything to do with better jobs being available, leaving nobody for the crap paying jobs.

 

It is an employee's market right now.

Edited May 18, 2022 by cured

[MLP12]

I just got back from sailing on Harmony.  After many years of My Time Dining, I switched to Traditional Early Seating.  I never had to wait in line.  However, on another note, no one met us at the door to greet us or escort us to our table.  The first night people were wandering around aimlessly searching for their table number.  Our service was excellent, but we did feel somewhat rushed.  As soon as we sat down and were handed the menu, our waitress was standing there waiting to take down our orders; including dessert.  No separate menu for dessert.  Many things have changed for sure.

[rudeney]

3 hours ago, topnole said:

No one is due a refund just because they think the service didn’t meet their standard.  Now If they didn’t give one a room or the meals guaranteed in the contract, that is one thing.  But just because one thinks the service was poor doesn’t mean a refund is due.  The norm would be to not return and go elsewhere.
 

Some are born to complain and some go with the flow.  I’m not interested in complainers getting rewarded like folks who return dead Christmas trees in January at Costco for a full refund.  That just raises the price for everyone else.  
 

If you think the service is bad, just try a different cruise line.  People complaining on here act like there is some easy fix to this issue.  There isn’t.  It is an extremely complex issue for cruise companies.  

 

You are right about those "complainers" who do ridiculous things like return a dead Christmas tree.  That's not me.  It takes a lot to get me to complain, but when I do, I have specific goals.  The primary focus is to make sure the company is aware of the problem.  If no one tells them, how are they to know?  But I also want to make sure I get compensated.  To me, not getting a minimal level of expected service is no different than not getting all the parts of the merchandise I buy.  It's all a value proposition, and when the value I get is less than what I paid for, it needs to be fixed.  The only way the company can fix it is by giving me money or replacement services.  

 

As for just "trying a different cruise", that does nothing to address my loss and it also means the cruise line has no clue they are doing anything wrong.  And as I stated, as long as people keep paying for sub-par service, companies will keep pushing the bar lower.  

 

Just to give you an example of how I complain and what it takes to push me that far, I recently switched phones from Verizon to AT&T.  I bought new phones for my wife and me online and arranged to port our numbers.  The online activation instructions included did not work and i was directed to call customer support.  Not counting hold time of 30 minutes, I spent 90 minutes on with the rep trying to activate my phone.  He finally did, but the next day, I realized data would not work.  I called back and spent another hour (not counting hold time) to find out they could not fix it and would call me back later, which they did not.  The next day, I drove to my local AT&T retail store and was there for two hours while they worked on and eventually fixed the problem. 

 

So the next day, tried to activate my wife's phone and it did not work, so I went straight to the store, where it took another 90 minutes to fix it.  The entire problem was caused by the first rep.  All he needed to do was create a new account so online activation would work.  But instead he created the wrong type of account and incorrectly activated my phone.  So I spent 6 hours (still not counting hold time) and driving around town twice to get two phones activated.  I sent an email to AT&T executive offices and when they called me back, I told them the problem and that I wanted to be compensated for my time, especially since I paid $30 per phone for "activation".  As it turned out, the executive rep put me on an AARP discount (dang - I always forget to ask about those!) which covered the activation fees, gave me a 10% discount in addition to 25% for AT&T internet & TV bundling, and then gave me a month's service credit on my bill.  That was all I needed.  I am now "whole" and AT&T knows they have a problem that they need to solve.  

[Starry Eyes]

1 hour ago, celoplyr said:

I agree this is the current practice.  It feels different than what happened in the before times, so we were caught off guard (it used to be 5:00 reservations, now the earliest is 6:30/6:45). 

 

We only started cruising because of MTD- my parents were very nervous about eating with others- and we have now switched to early dining because we want to eat at 5:30.  At least we are no longer in large tables, so Dad is happy still.

Before Royal Caribbean changed the MTD system, we happily took either MTD or early traditional dining, depending on dining availability and our shore schedule.  Now we stick we early traditional dining (there are more early traditional slots with the new system, so we have always gotten it).

[topnole]

2 hours ago, DukeASUGirl said:

EXACTLY.

 

It's not that "people don't want to work." It's that they "don't want to work for YOU" (not you personally, of course).

 

If businesses are having trouble finding employees at the low wages they're offering, that tells you something. One of the biggest arguments people have made against raising minimum wage to $15/hr is that if people want to make more, they should educate themselves/improve their skills and get a better job or open their own business. Many, many people did just that, using the COVID shutdowns to go back to school or change to a different gig. 

 

So now they are unwilling to work the crappy jobs for low wages that they did in the past. They did exactly what folks told them to do.

I don’t think what your saying is accurate.  Lots of universities faced significant drops in enrollment when Covid hit.  People didn’t go back to school and earn a degree since 2020.  That just isn’t true.  

[topnole]

14 minutes ago, rudeney said:

 

You are right about those "complainers" who do ridiculous things like return a dead Christmas tree.  That's not me.  It takes a lot to get me to complain, but when I do, I have specific goals.  The primary focus is to make sure the company is aware of the problem.  If no one tells them, how are they to know?  But I also want to make sure I get compensated.  To me, not getting a minimal level of expected service is no different than not getting all the parts of the merchandise I buy.  It's all a value proposition, and when the value I get is less than what I paid for, it needs to be fixed.  The only way the company can fix it is by giving me money or replacement services.  

 

As for just "trying a different cruise", that does nothing to address my loss and it also means the cruise line has no clue they are doing anything wrong.  And as I stated, as long as people keep paying for sub-par service, companies will keep pushing the bar lower.  

 

Just to give you an example of how I complain and what it takes to push me that far, I recently switched phones from Verizon to AT&T.  I bought new phones for my wife and me online and arranged to port our numbers.  The online activation instructions included did not work and i was directed to call customer support.  Not counting hold time of 30 minutes, I spent 90 minutes on with the rep trying to activate my phone.  He finally did, but the next day, I realized data would not work.  I called back and spent another hour (not counting hold time) to find out they could not fix it and would call me back later, which they did not.  The next day, I drove to my local AT&T retail store and was there for two hours while they worked on and eventually fixed the problem. 

 

So the next day, tried to activate my wife's phone and it did not work, so I went straight to the store, where it took another 90 minutes to fix it.  The entire problem was caused by the first rep.  All he needed to do was create a new account so online activation would work.  But instead he created the wrong type of account and incorrectly activated my phone.  So I spent 6 hours (still not counting hold time) and driving around town twice to get two phones activated.  I sent an email to AT&T executive offices and when they called me back, I told them the problem and that I wanted to be compensated for my time, especially since I paid $30 per phone for "activation".  As it turned out, the executive rep put me on an AARP discount (dang - I always forget to ask about those!) which covered the activation fees, gave me a 10% discount in addition to 25% for AT&T internet & TV bundling, and then gave me a month's service credit on my bill.  That was all I needed.  I am now "whole" and AT&T knows they have a problem that they need to solve.  

Just read your cruise contract.  That is what you get.  The rest is just your expectations.  Demanding compensation because you didn’t like the service is ridiculous.   Your phone example is not the same.  If it doesn’t work and you bought a phone that doesn’t work, totally different.   Slow service or a show not happening is totally different.  Again, read the contract and demand what is in the contract.  Nothing more.