A dining nightmare on allure..

[J0Y0US]

22 hours ago, Ptroxx said:

Sure makes sense to us. But for companies that have been shut down for a year they are in a hurry to try and recoup all their losses.   
look at prices.  
if your that worried maybe take a time out from cruising till everyone’s at full staff.   Or bring your patience.    

 

No issues with Disney or Norwegian When I was on those lines. Going to be on Royal in June and all these stories are solidifying my choice to stick with Unlimited Dining. 

[topnole]

1 hour ago, grandgeezer said:

Unless they are complete idiots, they know exactly how many of each category crew they need to satisfy the needs of the number of passengers on board. When it gets close quit selling bookings. Unless they have a fire sale I would think they don’t sell many cabins after final payment. That gives them three months to allocate crew.

At the current pricing levels, if passenger load is at a certain level, or higher, they sure are making money. Google it for the facts.

Service is a key point in keeping customers. If this understaffed situation last much longer, people are going to get fed up with it and move on. I read somewhere where it cost ten times as much to get a customer back as it does to keep him. It’s just a matter of time.

Ten years ago we knew about fifteen couples that cruised 3-4 weeks a year or more, now we know 0 and everybody has moved on just fine.

 

They can lose crew at a moment’s notice due to Covid.  Outbreaks are happening and then out of nowhere they are down a bunch of crew.  
 

It isn’t like a store where you hang a help wanted sign.  Recruiting and retention in this industry must be absolutely brutal in this Covid environment.   Not sure if you have ever managed things at this level, but the HR issues they are facing are necessarily highly complex.  
 

And managing bookings and demand is the same.  All aspects of the industry are a logistical nightmare right now.  Those pretending there are easy fixes to these issues simply don’t understand the variables involved.  This is a million times more complex than you are making it out to be.  
 

I can promise you that operating at low capacity at these cruise fares will result in failure in a short order of time.  Just look at the profit margins pre Covid when ships operated at near capacity regularly.  Lower capacity isn’t sustainable for Royal Caribbean at the current prices for a cruise.  

[J0Y0US]

7 hours ago, Ptroxx said:

kinda like college student’s graduate and demand to make 100k a year right out of school

 

Kind of like businesses wanting people with college education to make coffee and do medial work I could have done out of high school.

[Ptroxx]

3 minutes ago, J0Y0US said:

 

Kind of like businesses wanting people with college education to make coffee and do medial work I could have done out of high school.

That’s right you could have.  
It’s a choice.

But ya gotta start some where.  
 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Ptroxx

[J0Y0US]

23 minutes ago, topnole said:

Just read your cruise contract.  That is what you get.  The rest is just your expectations.  Demanding compensation because you didn’t like the service is ridiculous.   Your phone example is not the same.  If it doesn’t work and you bought a phone that doesn’t work, totally different.   Slow service or a show not happening is totally different.  Again, read the contract and demand what is in the contract.  Nothing more.  

 

A company can put whatever they want in to a contract it doesn't mean

1) it's legal

2) its outcome will be accepted by the customer

3) it's outcome will not be viewed by the public poorly and get traction in the media and social media

 

Yes people can complain about to much demanding compensation but there is a difference between that and only going by the cruise contract. 

 

They could cut every cruise port and give no compensation doesn't mean it's the correct thing even if it abides by a cruise contract (see some of the recent Alaska cruises). 

[J0Y0US]

1 minute ago, Ptroxx said:

That’s right you could have.  
It’s a choice.

But ya gotta start some where.  
 

 

And? 

 

Thats the beauty those college grads can choose where they want to start. They can also cut out in 3/6 months right as you finished training because they found a better job to start their career at. 

[Yakker1749]

Well now that I know about the employment issues in Las Vegas, can we try and stay on topic?  Yes, short staffed is a COVID creation regardless of who what and why.  
More importantly, how best to approach MTD?

[Ptroxx]

39 minutes ago, Yakker1749 said:

Well now that I know about the employment issues in Las Vegas, can we try and stay on topic?  Yes, short staffed is a COVID creation regardless of who what and why.  
More importantly, how best to approach MTD?

Best approach is don’t do it if you don’t have patients.    
 And yes vegas is hurting like every other state and country and cruise line.  
 

 

[twinmommy08]

My last 3 cruises since restart was MTD. 

Adventure: Fine. Had the same table and wait staff the entire week. Standing reservation for 7 pm each night. 

 

Mariner: Alright. Same table and wait staff, but we were not seated until “our” table was ready. Standing reservation for 7 pm each night but we were typically seated 7:15-7:20 on the nights we ate in the dining room. 
 

Freedom: Alright. Appeared they held our table for our 7 pm reservation so we were sat right away. We missed one night and ate speciality instead. The next night we were sort of scolded by our waiter saying we should have canceled our reservation because our table sat empty. That was odd for me. I thought my speciality dining reservation was set since you can’t have two reservations at the same time? 
 

Pre-pandemic we were sat at the next available table on MTD. Often we had the same wait staff but sometimes we didn’t. A non-issue for us. Now it seems like they are trying to sit MTD at the same tables and possibly delaying seating until that table is free from 1st seating. 
 

I’m in a spot for our Ovation cruise next week. DH doesn’t like the menus for CK and I was planning on eating dinner there most nights. Now that is out I made standing MTD reservations for 7:15 each night. Who knows what we’ll end up doing though. We wrote off speciality dining for a while. Just haven’t had a good experience on the last few cruises. Dining room has normally been solid for us. 

[topnole]

1 hour ago, J0Y0US said:

 

A company can put whatever they want in to a contract it doesn't mean

1) it's legal

2) its outcome will be accepted by the customer

3) it's outcome will not be viewed by the public poorly and get traction in the media and social media

 

Yes people can complain about to much demanding compensation but there is a difference between that and only going by the cruise contract. 

 

They could cut every cruise port and give no compensation doesn't mean it's the correct thing even if it abides by a cruise contract (see some of the recent Alaska cruises). 

Point is the contract is what they promise you.  Getting frustrated by a 10-15 wait for something isn’t the company violating their promise to a customer.  It is just sub par service.  That is the type of stuff people are upset about and apparently some are demanding compensation.   Doesn’t mean those people should get it.   
 

Where you are right is that people can go elsewhere.  But some people on here won’t.  They just like to keep coming back on Royal and then complain.  Everyone on here knows things aren’t ideal.  It’s fine to observe the issues or maybe even belly ache about them.  But demanding compensation for bad service?   My goodness.  
 

You think Royal’s contract isn’t legal?   Good luck with that and I think we both know that legal isn’t black and white white when it comes to many things.  They have a team of lawyers.   The average Joe doesn’t.  The team of lawyers will win that fight every time.  Not saying it is good business.  Just stating reality.  

[Biker19]

10 hours ago, rudeney said:

I am now "whole" and AT&T knows they have a problem that they need to solve.  

Do you not think what that CSR did wrong has not happened in the past and folks complained? You got bought off, but very unlikely what you experienced won't happen to someone else.

[bajathree]

16 hours ago, topnole said:

And how do they lower capacity?   Can you imagine the complaining when they start canceling X% of the people due to staffing issues.  Then people would complain and say they’d rather deal with some staffing issues than have their vacation canceled.  

I just heard a report yesterday thats exactly what Cunard is doing....cancelling people to lower capacity since their service isn't currently up to par to what they are known to offer. I hear that for people they cancel they are offing a full refund with I believe a 25% future cruise credit good till the end of 2024.

[island lady]

13 hours ago, MLP12 said:

I just got back from sailing on Harmony.  After many years of My Time Dining, I switched to Traditional Early Seating.  I never had to wait in line.  However, on another note, no one met us at the door to greet us or escort us to our table.  The first night people were wandering around aimlessly searching for their table number.  Our service was excellent, but we did feel somewhat rushed.  As soon as we sat down and were handed the menu, our waitress was standing there waiting to take down our orders; including dessert.  No separate menu for dessert.  Many things have changed for sure.

 

Totally agree.   When the MTD program first came out...we loved it.  Never busy, never a line, no reservations needed, and were using one whole dedicated upper floor for MTD only.  Indeed much like NCL's "Anytime Dining".  

 

Now...many years later (IMHO) the program is a fail.  We have once again, like you, switched back to traditional dining.  Being much older now, we enjoy the early dining.  Felt so spoiled to just waltz in at 5:30 to walk to our dedicated table, with staff that remembered what we liked for apps and wine.  When we left just before 7 pm, the line outside the podium was always unreal, with many grouchy faces.  😮 

 

We always go check our table location first, just after muster.  Many times the very cheerful host is already there, and is happy to show me the table.  Nice!  

[rudeney]

4 hours ago, Biker19 said:

Do you not think what that CSR did wrong has not happened in the past and folks complained? You got bought off, but very unlikely what you experienced won't happen to someone else.

 

You are correct - it might and probably will happen again.  Because I escalated my complaint and demanded compensation, they lost 10% of their annual revenue on my account.  If enough customers who experience this problem do what I did, then it's possible that executive management recognize that as a need to change.  I can't control what others do - all I can do is relate my experience.  

[rudeney]

14 hours ago, topnole said:

Just read your cruise contract.  That is what you get.  The rest is just your expectations.  Demanding compensation because you didn’t like the service is ridiculous.   Your phone example is not the same.  If it doesn’t work and you bought a phone that doesn’t work, totally different.   Slow service or a show not happening is totally different.  Again, read the contract and demand what is in the contract.  Nothing more.  

 

This isn't about the contract.  Contracts are only used in court.  This is about a service organization being obligated to provide customers the value they paid for.  I guess you would be among the customers who take what they get even though you all know it is not what you paid for.  As long as people line up to pay for poor service that is worth less than the price, companies will continue to happily provide them with that.  When their profits begin to wane due to lack of demand or excessive refunds, that's when they will look at changing.  Some executives will be smart enough to realize that cutting costs (i.e. service) to solve financial problems is not always the best strategy for long-term profitability.  Those who are smart enough to realize that customers will pay for excellence and then provide that excellence, that will prosper.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not going to complain because my food is not the perfect temperature or that I had to wait a few extra minutes for a drink refill, or if the line to get on the tender is long because the crew member scanning Seapass cards is untrained.  Those are simple inconveniences.  I shared my AT&T experience because I wanted to give an example of when what it takes to push me to complain and request compensation.  As for that, the physical phone worked perfectly.  It was the service that was a problem.  Since they did eventually provide the service I paid for, then your argument would seem to be that I should have just accepted it and not complained or requested any compensation.  

[Tonopah]

23 hours ago, bajathree said:

Thats absolute nonsense. Inflation is off the wall and the price of living has gone crazy.....but let's stay home and not work!?!?!?!?!. When did everyone win the lottery and become millionaires and not have to work anymore. This is yet another COVID excuse....no one wants to work🙄

People work. They just don’t want to work for peanuts and now they don’t have to.

[not-enough-cruising]

On 5/18/2022 at 10:56 AM, bajathree said:

Thats absolute nonsense. Inflation is off the wall and the price of living has gone crazy.....but let's stay home and not work!?!?!?!?!. When did everyone win the lottery and become millionaires and not have to work anymore. This is yet another COVID excuse....no one wants to work🙄

As a small business owner; I can tell you; hiring right now is nearly impossible. 
we have had positions, both entry-level and skilled, they have been unfulfilled for nearly a year.

I have my own theories as to why, but I’m not going to go down that rabbit hole here. But to say people don’t want to work is nonsense is really nonsense in itself. 

[johnjen]

17 hours ago, cured said:

It has nothing to do with people not wanting to work. That is a political line being used to make one side angry.  It has everything to do with better jobs being available, leaving nobody for the crap paying jobs.

 

It is an employee's market right now.

Spot on. Because, all of a sudden post-pandemic, the job market is WIDE OPEN for higher paying jobs and those that used to work at lower paying jobs are getting employed into the higher paying jobs that are, understandably, vacant due to the covid period we all endured. But, only temporarily (well, hopefully).

[CruisingWalter]

On 5/18/2022 at 7:11 AM, h20skibum said:

We are doing traditional dining, and service has been outstanding.  Trying to do MTD at 6:45 is like people coming to the port outside their boarding time to line up and get in early.  It was a hassle, even before the pandemic.  
 

I do agree they need to look into the buffet at Labadee.  It was so much worse than CocoCay.  

 

I agree that trying to come into the MTD between 6:15 and 7:30 for Any Time dining is putting yourself into a world of hurt. That's prime time. Either come in when the doors open or towards the end of seating for better luck.

 

I will say we sailed the Carnival Mardi Gras in March with somewhere between 5500-5900 passengers so we were 100% double occupancy full. Nobody waited in line at the MDR because we could use the app instead. When we were ready to eat, we notified the dining room. They sent us a notice when they had a table ready, we had 10 minutes to make our way to the dining room. Easy peasy. The longest wait we had was 20 minutes, but we spent that time hanging at the bar or watching entertainment instead of being in a queue.

 

All of the restaurants were set up that way in the App. That was our first time on Carnival and that feature on the app was really impressive. With the size of Royal's ships, something like that would be huge in the app. Carnival is doing it with near 6000 passengers so Royal could too. 🙂 

[topnole]

22 minutes ago, rudeney said:

 

This isn't about the contract.  Contracts are only used in court.  This is about a service organization being obligated to provide customers the value they paid for.  I guess you would be among the customers who take what they get even though you all know it is not what you paid for.  As long as people line up to pay for poor service that is worth less than the price, companies will continue to happily provide them with that.  When their profits begin to wane due to lack of demand or excessive refunds, that's when they will look at changing.  Some executives will be smart enough to realize that cutting costs (i.e. service) to solve financial problems is not always the best strategy for long-term profitability.  Those who are smart enough to realize that customers will pay for excellence and then provide that excellence, that will prosper.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not going to complain because my food is not the perfect temperature or that I had to wait a few extra minutes for a drink refill, or if the line to get on the tender is long because the crew member scanning Seapass cards is untrained.  Those are simple inconveniences.  I shared my AT&T experience because I wanted to give an example of when what it takes to push me to complain and request compensation.  As for that, the physical phone worked perfectly.  It was the service that was a problem.  Since they did eventually provide the service I paid for, then your argument would seem to be that I should have just accepted it and not complained or requested any compensation.  

They are a capital intensive company that was disallowed to earn revenue for something like a year.  That did kill profit and put them in an extremely unattractive financial situation.  We are lucky any of these companies even exist now.  
 

Add in the supply chain issues and labor shortages and it is a nightmare for them.  I just got off a cruise and all told my observation is that things can and will improve.  But they are

dealing with the issues as best as

possible.  People are free to choose with their wallets.  My guess is cruisers will come back realizing they got a good bang for their buck and that Royal is doing their best given the horrible situation they operate in now.  If I’m wrong, we will see the repeat cruiser %s go down significantly. Time will tell.  

[rudeney]

5 minutes ago, topnole said:

They are a capital intensive company that was disallowed to earn revenue for something like a year.  That did kill profit and put them in an extremely unattractive financial situation.  We are lucky any of these companies even exist now.  
 

Add in the supply chain issues and labor shortages and it is a nightmare for them.  I just got off a cruise and all told my observation is that things can and will improve.  But they are

dealing with the issues as best as

possible.  People are free to choose with their wallets.  My guess is cruisers will come back realizing they got a good bang for their buck and that Royal is doing their best given the horrible situation they operate in now.  If I’m wrong, we will see the repeat cruiser %s go down significantly. Time will tell.  

 

I can certainly accept a lower level of service because of the government-imposed challenges that cruise lines have dealt with.  But if they KNOW they have untrained staff and food shortages, then they may need to rethink going back to full-fare pricing and 100% capacity.  I know this is a financial hardship on them, but my fear is that with so much pent-up demand for escapism, they will ignore the reasons for this huge revenue stream and "assume" that customers are willing to pay top-dollar for bargain-basement service.  It may work for a a year or so, but it will eventually bite them in the balance sheet.  

 

Another comment about my suggestion to complain...I don't complain when the service is bad and the provider acknowledges it and does everything possible to fix it.  What pushes me over the edge is when the service providers is either indifferent or even rude.  I have never had that on a cruise ship, so I've never complained about anything.  I don't anticipate that to be the case with my upcoming cruise, either.  

[hazeleyes46]

Sorry but this sounds like a minor blip in life and you are on vacation so sometimes you have to just roll with the punches.

 

[Jerseygirl1416]

I just called and switched to early dining. The earliest reservations for MTD on my Oasis planner is 7pm and if that’s delayed it’s too late for us. How do you see you’re dining assignment on your reservation? I don’t see the early dining noted anywhere.

[TravelGirlinDallas]

On 5/18/2022 at 11:32 AM, Starry Eyes said:

Traditional early dining uses decks 3, 4, and 5 at about 5 pm.  So all the tables are quickly and efficiently filled with assigned guests right away (except those tables that happen to be empty because guests elect to eat elsewhere that night).  MTD is not scheduled to start until about 6:30-7:00 or so (about when some early traditional diners finished with meals).  As the early traditional diners on deck 3 vacate their tables, the tables are cleaned and MTD guests are then seated.  

Anyone know why they changed it to this new system? It seemed like it was working just fine before. 

We have always chosen MTD since it was first started by NCL. We don't like having to be there by a specific time when our schedule can vary (especially on port days), as well as not wanting to be seated with a large table of strangers. We did that back when traditional dining was the only option, and that was enough.

[Jerseygirl1416]

2 minutes ago, TravelGirlinDallas said:

Anyone know why they changed it to this new system? It seemed like it was working just fine before. 

We have always chosen MTD since it was first started by NCL. We don't like having to be there by a specific time when our schedule can vary (especially on port days), as well as not wanting to be seated with a large table of strangers. We did that back when traditional dining was the only option, and that was enough.

When I called to switch to traditional dining the agent asked if I wanted a table for 2 or a big table so that was good. That’s why we stopped traditional dining years ago too because I just got sick of having to change our table once we boarded.