Tipping?

[janecambridge]

I agree with the fund wholeheartedly.I don’t have a problem with that.

Maybe I do have it backwards in your eyes, but In my  eyes I’m afraid I see tips to staff before a service as a bribe.Ive seen (and heard) many times.

You said yourself that the crew know who do this beforehand..Im sure Dan, that the pre tipping is right for you.

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by janecambridge

[RetiredandTravel]

I'm sorry but if on the first night I give the MDR Maitre de and the waiter $200 each (maybe introduce myself to the chef 😁) and supplement it along the way I'm very likely to get better service, tables etc.  This is just basic human nature and why individual tipping is IMO a slippery slope and shouldn't be allowed.  The cruise lines should set up a group fund that is advertised and encouraged,  possibly allow a portion of the OBC to be donated.  This would improve compensation and help ensure high quality service.

[commodoredave]

I donated to the crew welfare fund once and the found the experience disappointing. It was back in 2013 on the Seabourn Pride. After reading on CC that giving to the crew welfare fund was a great way to reward staff, I gave a generous donation on the second day of a 15-day cruise. My donation was never acknowledged in any way -- not a card from someone placed in our cabin, not a thank you or smile from a crew member, and the charge on our final bill didn't even state the money was for the crew fund. In contrast, when we give tips to those providing good service to us, we always feel it is appreciated. Bottom line: we no longer give the crew welfare fund.

[dalliowner]

I always give to the crew fund, but never at the beginning of a cruise. I do not want  the crew to thanks me at the beginning of a cruise and I do not expect, or want special treatment  during my cruise.

[cruiseej]

1 hour ago, janecambridge said:

Maybe I do have it backwards in your eyes, but In my  eyes I’m afraid I see tips to staff before a service as a bribe.Ive seen (and heard) many times.

 

I think the disconnect here is that a contribution to the crew welfare fund is not  the same as "a tip to the staff before a service." With a tip, you're putting money in a crew member's pocket, and yes, doing so at the start of a cruise, like sliding money to a maitre d', is essentially a bribe for better service. But crew members don't receive cash in their pockets from donations to the crew fund. The fund provides things to help crew members morale and experience, from buying bicycles crew members can use when they're off duty in ports to crew parties to helping a crew member fly home on short notice due to a family emergency. While crew members may see a lit of passengers who have contributed to the fund, and may thank a passenger for doing so, they haven't been paid in anticipation of special service. 
 

1 hour ago, commodoredave said:

I donated to the crew welfare fund once and the found the experience disappointing... My donation was never acknowledged in any way... In contrast, when we give tips to those providing good service to us, we always feel it is appreciated. Bottom line: we no longer give the crew welfare fund.

 

I respectfully disagree with that premise. Providing money to the crew fund, or even an individual tip (on a ship or otherwise), is an act of you thanking the staff member(s) for their service and hard work on your behalf. The giving of the tip/donation is what, hopefully, makes you feel good. I don't tip because I am paying to be thanked or praised. I hope my tip is appreciated, but I don't wait around for someone to thank me for my thank you, and I don't feel disappointed to not be thanked for my thank you. When I'm leaving a restaurant, I leave a tip and sometimes the server hasn't seen it by the time I leave; I don't feel disappointed not to be thanked have my generosity.

 

I agree the cruise ship should acknowledge a contribution with a thank you note. (And perhaps things have changed since your experience in 2013, as many people have noted in recent years being acknowledged/thanked by that crew members who have seen that a contribution was made to the welfare fund.) But your satisfaction should come from knowing you did a good deed, not the payback you receive. Just my 2¢… 

[commodoredave]

10 minutes ago, cruiseej said:

 

I think the disconnect here is that a contribution to the crew welfare fund is not  the same as "a tip to the staff before a service." With a tip, you're putting money in a crew member's pocket, and yes, doing so at the start of a cruise, like sliding money to a maitre d', is essentially a bribe for better service. But crew members don't receive cash in their pockets from donations to the crew fund. The fund provides things to help crew members morale and experience, from buying bicycles crew members can use when they're off duty in ports to crew parties to helping a crew member fly home on short notice due to a family emergency. While crew members may see a lit of passengers who have contributed to the fund, and may thank a passenger for doing so, they haven't been paid in anticipation of special service. 
 

 

I respectfully disagree with that premise. Providing money to the crew fund, or even an individual tip (on a ship or otherwise), is an act of you thanking the staff member(s) for their service and hard work on your behalf. The giving of the tip/donation is what, hopefully, makes you feel good. I don't tip because I am paying to be thanked or praised. I hope my tip is appreciated, but I don't wait around for someone to thank me for my thank you, and I don't feel disappointed to not be thanked for my thank you. When I'm leaving a restaurant, I leave a tip and sometimes the server hasn't seen it by the time I leave; I don't feel disappointed not to be thanked have my generosity.

 

I agree the cruise ship should acknowledge a contribution with a thank you note. (And perhaps things have changed since your experience in 2013, as many people have noted in recent years being acknowledged/thanked by that crew members who have seen that a contribution was made to the welfare fund.) But your satisfaction should come from knowing you did a good deed, not the payback you receive. Just my 2¢… 

Good point, but I respectfully disagree. The cruise line fare includes gratuities, which are supposedly for the crew, so I am already thanking the crew for their service. Sometimes I wish to acknowledge crew who go above and beyond by tipping them extra, which I do near the end of the cruise.  This system works well for me, but I acknowledge it may not for everyone. 

[lincslady]

The point is that individual staff and crew members do not receive individual tips,  it goes into a pot for the benefit of all.  I am surprised to read that someone got no acknowledgement  from the staff; suggests that it did not find its way into the crew fund at all?  Actually it should not be needed; it can go towards things which some might say Seabourn should provide anyway, like treats or parties for the crew.  IMO no one should feel guilty if  they do not donate to the crew fund, but  should if they tip individuals in advance for special service.

[saminina]

2 hours ago, commodoredave said:

 The cruise line fare includes gratuities, which are supposedly for the crew, so I am already thanking the crew for their service. 

 

I'd say your thought process lacks foundation.    Crew members are well paid working on contracts.  They do not count on tips to make ends meet.   They do not expect tips to cover their fun time while ashore.   Up until recently, you would see the same crew faces for years working in the dining areas and housekeeping.  The fare we pay does not include tips for the crew.  Gratuities are included in the fare we pay.  

[commodoredave]

12 minutes ago, lincslady said:

The point is that individual staff and crew members do not receive individual tips,  it goes into a pot for the benefit of all.  I am surprised to read that someone got no acknowledgement  from the staff; suggests that it did not find its way into the crew fund at all?  Actually it should not be needed; it can go towards things which some might say Seabourn should provide anyway, like treats or parties for the crew.  IMO no one should feel guilty if  they do not donate to the crew fund, but  should if they tip individuals in advance for special service.

I agree. If I tipped certain individuals in advance for service, I would feel no joy in doing so. But when I tip certain individuals for exceptional service at or near the end of the cruise, it gives me (and hopefully them) great satisfaction.

Edited June 15, 2022 by commodoredave
typo

[commodoredave]

2 minutes ago, saminina said:

 

I'd say your thought process lacks foundation.    Crew members are well paid working on contracts.  They do not count on tips to make ends meet.   They do not expect tips to cover their fun time while ashore.   Up until recently, you would see the same crew faces for years working in the dining areas and housekeeping.  The fare we pay does not include tips for the crew.  Gratuities are included in the fare we pay.  

I think you may have meant to say that "The fare we pay does include tips for the crew", instead of  does not as you go on to say that "Gratuities are included in the fare we pay."  Beyond those gratuities included in our cruise fare, I see no reason to tip unless one feels they have been given a level of exceptional service or help that they wish to reward. 

[saminina]

My deal is with Seabourn.  Seabourn pays the crew and it certainly is not a fixed percentage of fare income.   Our thoughts are opposite one another.   Whatever I do for the crew has nothing to do with Seabourn.  And I have never, ever tipped an individual on SB or SS.    Crystal, yes, because the old culture never really ended when they went all inclusive.  I think that crew was enjoying an amount of double dipping.  Emphasis on was.

[SLSD]

I would be very embarrassed to tip a crew member at the beginning of a cruise.  I would see it as a bribe and me expecting better service than other guests.  Why would I think I was more deserving of that than others?  Because I was willing to pay for it?  How low class (and that has nothing to do with money) can you get?  How tawdry.  How cheap.  Need I say more?  

 

We have sometimes left some cash in an envelope for our cabin attendant on the very last day.  We do this never really expecting to see her again, but hoping that we can give her something to brighten her day, make her optimistic about the future, etc.  

 

We would be mortified if any crew member thought we were trying to bribe them.  That is not who we are--or would ever want to be.  Those of you who do this might consider how others see you.  Maybe you don't care.  That is my best guess.  

[skybluewaters]

17 minutes ago, SLSD said:

I would be very embarrassed to tip a crew member at the beginning of a cruise.  I would see it as a bribe and me expecting better service than other guests.  Why would I think I was more deserving of that than others?  Because I was willing to pay for it?  How low class (and that has nothing to do with money) can you get?  How tawdry.  How cheap.  Need I say more?  

 

We have sometimes left some cash in an envelope for our cabin attendant on the very last day.  We do this never really expecting to see her again, but hoping that we can give her something to brighten her day, make her optimistic about the future, etc.  

 

We would be mortified if any crew member thought we were trying to bribe them.  That is not who we are--or would ever want to be.  Those of you who do this might consider how others see you.  Maybe you don't care.  That is my best guess.  

 

Very well said!

[RetiredandTravel]

Yes the tip is included sorry can't control myself

 

 

 

I agree SLSD but not everyone has your class or approach.

 

We spent most of our adult lives in NYC where tipping is expected and brings dividends.  If you want results in NYC TIP, that's just how it works.  I just think in this case a group tip makes the most sense.  With the current rules if I'm with decent people like Commodore & SLSD I'll tip for superior performance at the end, if I see people tipping to get preference (which was my impression on my last cruise) I'll do that.  Probably not that big of a deal.

 

 

[frantic36]

7 hours ago, commodoredave said:

I donated to the crew welfare fund once and the found the experience disappointing. It was back in 2013 on the Seabourn Pride. After reading on CC that giving to the crew welfare fund was a great way to reward staff, I gave a generous donation on the second day of a 15-day cruise. My donation was never acknowledged in any way -- not a card from someone placed in our cabin, not a thank you or smile from a crew member, and the charge on our final bill didn't even state the money was for the crew fund. In contrast, when we give tips to those providing good service to us, we always feel it is appreciated. Bottom line: we no longer give the crew welfare fund.

 

Interesting and unfortunate. We have given to the crew fund on every cruise at different points in the cruise and it has always been acknowledged with a letter and crew thanking us. The crew thanking us makes me feel embarrassed, so now if we give it early I ask at Guest services that it not be known to the crew. It doesn't always happen but at least I tried.

[Isklaar]

10 minutes ago, frantic36 said:

 

Interesting and unfortunate. We have given to the crew fund on every cruise at different points in the cruise and it has always been acknowledged with a letter and crew thanking us. The crew thanking us makes me feel embarrassed, so now if we give it early I ask at Guest services that it not be known to the crew. It doesn't always happen but at least I tried.

 

Same for us. We have always received written acknowledgment of our contribution to crew fund. It sounds as if something unfortunately went wrong for commodoredave.

[johng75370]

1 hour ago, Isklaar said:

Same for us. We have always received written acknowledgment of our contribution to crew fund. It sounds as if something unfortunately went wrong for commodoredave.

We’ve had 3 SB cruises in the past year and each time got a nice acknowledgement, as well as usually a sense of what it was going for.  For example, on Odyssey it was to expand or redo the area the crew could work out.  And because it goes to the crew in general, never felt it would be an influence to how we were treated (and compared to earlier sailings where we did not donate to it, have seen absolutely no difference in treatment by the crew).  

Edited June 15, 2022 by johng75370

[saminina]

There was a cruise when there was no acknowledgement of donation to crew fund.  Think it was on SS.

It was done a few days before end of cruise and it did bug me.   Two days later, I asked a different person at reception if it had been recorded.  It had. 

 

When on longer than a month, we've thrown crew parties.   

[Mauzac]

What happened on a cruise a while back was odd.  We tip through the Crew Fund usually a few days/a week before the end of the cruise, depending on length of cruise.

We were just getting round to organising it, but then had a note from our Room Attendant thanking us for our contribution to the Crew Fund!  It was more than we would usually do, but that didn't worry us.  I was more concerned about how that happened?  

I imagined the note was a mistake and should've been for another guest, but no, it showed up on our account.  

[commodoredave]

If I could sum up from my perspective, there appears to be a consensus that tipping is not necessary on Seabourn (or other luxury lines that include gratuities in the fare), but if someone wants to acknowledge good service by the crew in general or an individual in particular, it can be done via the crew welfare fund, by directly tipping certain individual(s), or both. What no one supported is tipping certain individuals at or near the beginning of the cruise because it appears to be bribery. As we all know there are people out there who do tip at the beginning of a cruise, and I for one would appreciate hearing from them as to why they they do it and how they justify it. Anyone out there brave enough to take up this challenge?

[Mr Luxury]

I would guess not many as it does say a lot about them.

[lincslady]

And my guess is that they are too (self) important to bother with CC anyway.

[RetiredandTravel]

3 hours ago, commodoredave said:

If I could sum up from my perspective, there appears to be a consensus that tipping is not necessary on Seabourn (or other luxury lines that include gratuities in the fare), but if someone wants to acknowledge good service by the crew in general or an individual in particular, it can be done via the crew welfare fund, by directly tipping certain individual(s), or both. What no one supported is tipping certain individuals at or near the beginning of the cruise because it appears to be bribery. As we all know there are people out there who do tip at the beginning of a cruise, and I for one would appreciate hearing from them as to why they they do it and how they justify it. Anyone out there brave enough to take up this challenge?

 

 

Once More Unto the Breach

 

Totally agree, 100%.  I firmly believe  that individual tipping shouldn't be allowed and the cruise lines should focus on group tips, I have clearly expressed this in prior posts.  Please don't misrepresent or engage in demeaning personal attacks for what I'm about to say.

 

The responsibility here is on Seabourn to not allow individual tips.  What I was trying to point out in my prior post was that there are people (not me) who think early tipping is expected or customary or charitable , they aren't all a subspecies trying to garner favor.  I would guess many early tippers intentions aren't honorable but all are.  If there was a firm rule of no individual tipping there would be no margin for error, allowing them just encourages bad behavior.  If Seabourn also had a policy of advertising group tipping for superior performance it may also improve service and moral.

 

Let me share my experience.

 

I worked with a man who went on a SS cruise and told me that you tip the maitre d the first night.  This is a very common approach in NYC.  My first night on Regent (pre Norwegian)  I offered the maitre d , a wonderful man, a $50 tip.  He said sir we don't allow tips but you can donate to the group fund, which I did.  I didn't offer $50 for special treatment, quite the contrary, I thought it was expected  and if I didn't I'd get poor service.  When he told me there was no tipping it was a breath of fresh air, my wife and I instantly had great respect for him and Regent.

 

On my last Regent cruise the service was poor and I realized that there was a lot of money changing hands in the MDR.  I still never tipped but it was very annoying.  Its my understanding that Regent now allows tips.  Individual tipping puts the clients and employees in a very awkward position.  I'm not apologizing for some schmuck trying to get preferential treatment but the real blame is on the cruise lines tipping policy.

Edited June 16, 2022 by RetiredandTravel

[SLSD]

11 minutes ago, RetiredandTravel said:

 

 

Once More Unto the Breach

 

Totally agree, 100%.  I firmly believe  that individual tipping shouldn't be allowed and the cruise lines should focus on group tips, I have clearly expressed this in prior posts.  Please don't misrepresent or engage in demeaning personal attacks for what I'm about to say.

 

The responsibility here is on Seabourn to not allow individual tips.  What I was trying to point out in my prior post was that there are people (not me) who think early tipping is expected or customary or charitable , they aren't all a subspecies trying to garner favor.  I would guess many early tippers intentions aren't honorable but all aren't.  If there was a firm rule of no individual tipping there would be no margin for error, allowing them just encourages bad behavior.  If Seabourn also had a policy of advertising group tipping for superior performance it may also improve service and moral.

 

Let me share my experience.

 

I worked with a man who went on a SS and told me that you tip the maitre d the first night.  This is a very common approach in NYC.  My first night on Regent (pre Norwegian)  I offered the maitre d , a wonderful man, a $50 tip.  He said sir we don't allow tips but you can donate to the group fund, which I did.  I didn't offer $50 for special treatment, quite the contrary, I thought it was expected  and if I didn't I'd get poor service.  When he told me there was no tipping it was a breath of fresh air, my wife and I instantly had great respect for him and Regent.

 

On my last Regent cruise the service was poor and I realized that there was a lot of money changing hands in the MDR.  I still never tipped but it was very annoying.  Its my understanding that Regent now allows tips.  Individual tipping puts the clients and employees in a very awkward position.  I'm not apologizing for some schmuck trying to get preferential treatment but the real blame is on the cruise lines tipping policy.

I think you make a good point.  I also believe that most people see a tip at the beginning of a cruise for what it is (a bribe) and will not offer an early tip--even if it means the service they get may not be as good as others.  It's just such smarmy thing to do--very distasteful.  I do understand that you are just making a point here--NOT saying that you agree with the practice.  I also understand that early tipping is prevalent in some restaurants (on land) and other places.  I have seen it done and always think it is a very awkward practice which embarrasses me--even if I am just seeing it done by strangers.  

[commodoredave]

2 hours ago, RetiredandTravel said:

 

 

Once More Unto the Breach

 

Totally agree, 100%.  I firmly believe  that individual tipping shouldn't be allowed and the cruise lines should focus on group tips, I have clearly expressed this in prior posts.  Please don't misrepresent or engage in demeaning personal attacks for what I'm about to say.

 

The responsibility here is on Seabourn to not allow individual tips.  What I was trying to point out in my prior post was that there are people (not me) who think early tipping is expected or customary or charitable , they aren't all a subspecies trying to garner favor.  I would guess many early tippers intentions aren't honorable but all are.  If there was a firm rule of no individual tipping there would be no margin for error, allowing them just encourages bad behavior.  If Seabourn also had a policy of advertising group tipping for superior performance it may also improve service and moral.

 

Let me share my experience.

 

I worked with a man who went on a SS cruise and told me that you tip the maitre d the first night.  This is a very common approach in NYC.  My first night on Regent (pre Norwegian)  I offered the maitre d , a wonderful man, a $50 tip.  He said sir we don't allow tips but you can donate to the group fund, which I did.  I didn't offer $50 for special treatment, quite the contrary, I thought it was expected  and if I didn't I'd get poor service.  When he told me there was no tipping it was a breath of fresh air, my wife and I instantly had great respect for him and Regent.

 

On my last Regent cruise the service was poor and I realized that there was a lot of money changing hands in the MDR.  I still never tipped but it was very annoying.  Its my understanding that Regent now allows tips.  Individual tipping puts the clients and employees in a very awkward position.  I'm not apologizing for some schmuck trying to get preferential treatment but the real blame is on the cruise lines tipping policy.

I respectfully disagree to a small extent. I believe every passenger has the right to decide if they want to tip, how they wish to tip, and who they wish to tip. However, I have no objection if a cruise line's policy is that all tips given to crew members must be put into a common fund to be shared by all crew. That way I get to acknowledge exceptional service and people, and they get to share the tip with all of their fellow crew. This is a policy used by some shore-side restaurants.