What are the safety reasons for evacuating cabins when a helicopter winches a guest who needs medical attention off the ship?

[pebem]

On September 5, 2022, at 11:52pm PDT (the ninth night of a 10-night San Francisco to Alaska Inside Passage cruise), Ruby Princess Captain Steven Lewis made this announcement:

 

 

• "One of your fellow guests requires urgent medical attention at a shoreside facility. And to this end, we have altered course for a position approximately 75 miles off the Oregon coast, where we will rendezvous with a US Coast Guard helicopter and the guest in question will be medically evacuated from the ship. This will be in the early hours of tomorrow morning, at approximately 02:15 although this is subject to change.
• "As I say, that will be the early hours of this morning at approximately 02:15, but this is subject to change. As part of our preparation for receiving the helicopter, we are required to evacuate certain cabins before the helicopter operations can begin, and obviously this is for safety reasons. These cabins are decks 15, 14, and 12 in fire zones three and four. In other words, if you are in one of the following cabins, you will be contacted shortly and directed to alternative temporary accommodation. Lido 301 to 311 and Lido 302 to 312, Riviera 301 to 417, and Riviera 302 to 412, including inside cabins. Aloha 301 to 437 and Aloha 302 to 436, again, including inside cabins.
• "As I said, guests in these cabins will be contacted shortly by members of the ship's company with further instructions. Please note that you will be not permitted to go back to your rooms until the operation has been completed, so you must take anything you need with you when you leave. In particular, any medication that you might need. If you are in zones three and four in decks 11, 10, and 9, you will not be required to evacuate. However, you must not go out onto your balcony during the helicopter operation. In other words, Baja 301 to 437 and Baja 302 to 436, Caribe 301 to 437, and Caribe 302 to 436, and Dolphin 301 to 425 and Dolphin 302 to 424 will not be required to leave their cabins, but again, under no circumstances are the occupants of those cabins to open their balcony door or proceed out onto their balcony until the helicopter operation has been completed.
• "So I'm making this announcement now so that I will not need to make another announcement through guest cabins as we get closer to the operation near the time. Furthermore, there will be no unauthorized access permitted on deck in the operational area, which will be on deck 16 midships on the port side, above the Neptune Pool. Also, and I cannot stress this enough, no flash photography on the open decks or through windows is permitted. This could temporarily blind the pilots and obviously lead to catastrophic consequences. I would ask for your understanding and that you comply completely with the instructions given to you by the members of the ship's company. Thank you in advance for your cooperation."

 

A KATU news article said:

 

• "A woman on a cruise ship was airlifted to Oregon Health & Science University (OHSU) in Portland on Tuesday morning. According to a tweet from the official U.S. Coast Guard of Pacific Northwest, a 66-year-old woman was airlifted from the Ruby Princess cruise ship that was about 75 miles southwest of the Columbia River Bar. Officials say she is now in stable condition."

 

A Cruise Law News article said:

 

• "Yesterday morning, the United States Coast Guard (USCG) medevaced a sixty-six year old woman from the Ruby Princess cruise ship. The USCG station in Astoria, Oregon dispatched a MH-60 Jayhawk which winched the cruise guest from the Princess cruise ship when the ship was approximately seventy-five miles southwest of the Columbia River Bar near Portland.
• "Medical evacuation of guests or crew members from cruise ships is provided by the USCG without cost or expense to the cruise guests, crew members or the cruise lines themselves. It is one of the many expenses incurred by U.S. federal agencies which are paid by U.S. taxpayers."

 

 

 

A staff member said that Ruby Princess had to do an evacuation four times in the last four months. The ship made it back on time to San Francisco for disembarkation.

 

People in the cabins at the front of the ship had to evacuate their cabins until after the helicopter had winched the guest who needed medical attention off the ship. I was curious. What are those safety reasons?

[chengkp75]

The reasons are that should things go "sideways", the helicopter could crash into the cabins (remember the ship is moving), and they don't want passengers in that potential danger.  Winching a patient in a basket from a moving ship, especially at night.  The helicopter pilot is executing a "moving hover", where the helicopter is stationary relative to the ship, but both ship and helicopter are moving over the surface.  This is one of the most difficult maneuvers a helicopter can perform, and why commercial air ambulance services are not allowed to perform evacuations, they are not trained in this dangerous maneuver.

 

They also don't want people on their balconies, or opening the drapes and letting light out, or moving around and distracting the pilots from their concentration on the hover.

[skynight]

We had the same operation returning to L.A. off the coast of Mexico. Cabins in the area had to be empty. It was in the evening. A further complication was that the USCG had to receive permission from Mexico to enter their air space and fly the patient to San Diego, the nearest US city. If I remember correctly the bridge lowered all the outside lighting for the pick up. 

[geoherb]

It was kind of the captain to make the announcement once. On a Holland America cruise, we were woken by announcements in our cabin about a helicopter rescue several times after midnight. The first announcement was about avoiding the open decks. The people in the affected cabins had already been moved to the theater. A second announcement came later to let people know that the helicopter did not have enough fuel and had to turn around. They made a third announcement when the helicopter was coming back, and a fourth announcement after it left.

 

[1025cruise]

I would presume they empty the cabins for safety reasons. One, the noise from the helicopter will probably wake you anyways. Two, as chengkp75 pointed out, in the unlikely event that something goes wrong and the helicopter itself makes an "unscheduled" landing.

[Cruise Raider]

3 hours ago, 1025cruise said:

I would presume they empty the cabins for safety reasons. One, the noise from the helicopter will probably wake you anyways. Two, as chengkp75 pointed out, in the unlikely event that something goes wrong and the helicopter itself makes an "unscheduled" landing.

 

We were onboard this cruise and were surprised that even the inside cabins had to be evacuated but now it makes sense.  

 

[GonzoWCS]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The reasons are that should things go "sideways", the helicopter could crash into the cabins (remember the ship is moving), and they don't want passengers in that potential danger.  Winching a patient in a basket from a moving ship, especially at night.  The helicopter pilot is executing a "moving hover", where the helicopter is stationary relative to the ship, but both ship and helicopter are moving over the surface.  This is one of the most difficult maneuvers a helicopter can perform, and why commercial air ambulance services are not allowed to perform evacuations, they are not trained in this dangerous maneuver.

 

They also don't want people on their balconies, or opening the drapes and letting light out, or moving around and distracting the pilots from their concentration on the hover.

Yep all ya need is something auguring into a bunch of folks....

 

Cheers

[boone2]

Retired now but worked for 6 years as a cruise ship nurse   I’ve been winched up to a hovering helicopter. The safety officer told us that the safety team  including firefighters,was to ensure the safety of the ship, not the medivac team if anything did go wrong, we on the bow were toast,  scariest thing I’ve ever done 

terry 

Edited September 8, 2022 by boone2
Spelling correction

[Thrak]

Imagine a bunch of people out on their balconies taking pictures or videos with their bright lights. Not something a pilot needs to contend with. You have to know people would do that.

[boone2]

29 minutes ago, Thrak said:

Imagine a bunch of people out on their balconies taking pictures or videos with their bright lights. Not something a pilot needs to contend with. You have to know people would do that.

Of course they do. They seem to think it’s their right to know everything that’s going on in a medivac. I could tell a few tales 

[Blondilu]

In 2018 I was on a ship that had a medical evacuation.  A number of people did not get off their balconies when told to do so (more than once) and this angered the captain quite a bit.  

 

Later that day he called a "meeting" in the theater.  He explained the procedure and then presented a slide show.  Several of the photos were of the misbehaving passengers standing on their balconies. Yes, they know who the guilty parties were and had photo evidence. But several photos were of the aftermath of various crashes where jet fuel was involved.  Frightening.  This, he said, is why I ordered those cabins in most danger be vacated and instructed everyone else to stay inside.  He explained how there are fire teams deployed to the upper decks in the event of a crash.  And, as we all know, how very, very dangerous fire is to a ship.

 

During the Q&A that followed the presentation one guy asked the Captain why they didn't just inclued this kind of info during the safety (muster) drill.  The captain's response:  "Or you could just do what your captain asked you to do."  

Edited September 8, 2022 by Blondilu

[XBGuy]

I, too, have been on a cruise when a helicopter had to evacuate a patient.  Interestingly, it was on the Grand Princess, and we were on a San Francisco-Alaska roundtrip similar to yours.  In the incident on our ship, an accident that occurred during a maintenance procedure injured a crewman.  We were farther north than you.  The helicopter was dispatched by the Canadian Coast Guard, and the injured crewman was flown to Vancouver.  There was a ship-wide announcement at about 12:30 pm and our forward port side cabin was one to be evacuated. 

 

My wife and I headed to Vines and started our relaxation hour(s) earlier than normal.  I guess it was about 2:30 when we saw the helicopter arriving.  Some time later, we saw it leaving.

 

The cool part was on one of the last sea days of the cruise, the Captain, Diego Perra, gave a presentation to interested passengers.  It was super interesting.  As @chengkp75, @boone2, and @Blondilu have indicated, he was constantly concerned about what could go wrong.  I believe he said the helicopter that was used in this operation can carry up to 20,000 of jet fuel.  That is why he evacuated all the port side cabins.

 

Of course, his entire presentation was fascinating.  It is interesting how there is international cooperation--and plenty of planning--in rescue operations.  Apparently (I'm going from memory here), when the Canadian Coast Guard received this urgent message, they were able to go to a resource (again, @chengkp75 can probably fill in better details) that tells them that for the Grand Princess, helicopter operations are centered on the port side forward of mid-ship.  It sounds like this reference has information for every commercial vessel in the world.  Also, it should be no surprise that, based on the information that the OP provided on which cabins needed to be evacuated, the same area is used on the Ruby Princess.  Interestingly, I saw a Might Ships episode the other day about a Royal Caribbean ship and there was an area on the bow of the ship with a big "H" on it.  Is that a helipad?  It is not clear to me.

 

The other thing that stuck in my brain was that once the helicopter arrives, the pilot gives the ship instructions on what speed and what bearing to take.  He has to deal with the prevailing conditions in order to execute the moving hover maneuver, and, so, the ship must accommodate him to make the maneuver as safe a possible.

 

The happy news is that the captain reported that the crewman was doing fine and would make a full recovery.

 

 

 

 

whether tha

 

 

 

s conce had been injured Interestin

[chengkp75]

27 minutes ago, XBGuy said:

Interestingly, I saw a Might Ships episode the other day about a Royal Caribbean ship and there was an area on the bow of the ship with a big "H" on it.  Is that a helipad?  It is not clear to me.

Many cruise ships have helipads, but almost none of them are used for landing helicopters (they are just too small, and too much interference around them.  They are not used a lot for winching operations, either, as the helicopter would be hovering and traveling backwards while the front of the ship was moving towards him.

 

I believe the ship informs the SAR service what is set up best for helicopter operations, not the other way around.  It would be listed in the ship's emergency plans.  Most cruise ships tend to do winching operations from the top deck, and it is preferred to be forward of the funnel, to remove the turbulence caused by the exhaust gases.  While the helicopter pilot has final say as to vessel speed and course, the Captain of the ship will also advise what heading and speed will minimize pitching and/or rolling, which is a large concern for the helicopter, and he is not familiar with the ship's handling characteristics.

[sloopsailor]

46 minutes ago, XBGuy said:

Interestingly, I saw a Might Ships episode the other day about a Royal Caribbean ship and there was an area on the bow of the ship with a big "H" on it.  Is that a helipad?  It is not clear to me.

 

According to a presentation by a ship officer on one of our Celebrity cruises, some older cruise ships have the flat area of the bow marked with an "H" as a place a helicopter could land in emergencies. Some newer ships now have "WINCH" instead, indicating a helicopter cannot land there and winching is the only procedure.

 

I am more familiar with Celebrity ships, so I will use different ships in the same class as examples. On the first three ships in the Solstice class, that forward deck area was strong enough to support the weight of a helicopter. Poles, railings and rigging all were built to fold down for clearance. The following sister ships were built with less support in the decking for weight concerns, and winching is now required there. 

 

Compare the forward "V" shaped area on the two images below. 

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by sloopsailor

[startedwithamouse]

13 hours ago, pebem said:

On September 5, 2022, at 11:52pm PDT (the ninth night of a 10-night San Francisco to Alaska Inside Passage cruise), Ruby Princess Captain Steven Lewis made this announcement:

 

 

• "One of your fellow guests requires urgent medical attention at a shoreside facility. And to this end, we have altered course for a position approximately 75 miles off the Oregon coast, where we will rendezvous with a US Coast Guard helicopter and the guest in question will be medically evacuated from the ship. This will be in the early hours of tomorrow morning, at approximately 02:15 although this is subject to change.
• "As I say, that will be the early hours of this morning at approximately 02:15, but this is subject to change. As part of our preparation for receiving the helicopter, we are required to evacuate certain cabins before the helicopter operations can begin, and obviously this is for safety reasons. These cabins are decks 15, 14, and 12 in fire zones three and four. In other words, if you are in one of the following cabins, you will be contacted shortly and directed to alternative temporary accommodation. Lido 301 to 311 and Lido 302 to 312, Riviera 301 to 417, and Riviera 302 to 412, including inside cabins. Aloha 301 to 437 and Aloha 302 to 436, again, including inside cabins.
• "As I said, guests in these cabins will be contacted shortly by members of the ship's company with further instructions. Please note that you will be not permitted to go back to your rooms until the operation has been completed, so you must take anything you need with you when you leave. In particular, any medication that you might need. If you are in zones three and four in decks 11, 10, and 9, you will not be required to evacuate. However, you must not go out onto your balcony during the helicopter operation. In other words, Baja 301 to 437 and Baja 302 to 436, Caribe 301 to 437, and Caribe 302 to 436, and Dolphin 301 to 425 and Dolphin 302 to 424 will not be required to leave their cabins, but again, under no circumstances are the occupants of those cabins to open their balcony door or proceed out onto their balcony until the helicopter operation has been completed.
• "So I'm making this announcement now so that I will not need to make another announcement through guest cabins as we get closer to the operation near the time. Furthermore, there will be no unauthorized access permitted on deck in the operational area, which will be on deck 16 midships on the port side, above the Neptune Pool. Also, and I cannot stress this enough, no flash photography on the open decks or through windows is permitted. This could temporarily blind the pilots and obviously lead to catastrophic consequences. I would ask for your understanding and that you comply completely with the instructions given to you by the members of the ship's company. Thank you in advance for your cooperation."

 

A KATU news article said:

 

• "A woman on a cruise ship was airlifted to Oregon Health & Science University (OHSU) in Portland on Tuesday morning. According to a tweet from the official U.S. Coast Guard of Pacific Northwest, a 66-year-old woman was airlifted from the Ruby Princess cruise ship that was about 75 miles southwest of the Columbia River Bar. Officials say she is now in stable condition."

 

A Cruise Law News article said:

 

• "Yesterday morning, the United States Coast Guard (USCG) medevaced a sixty-six year old woman from the Ruby Princess cruise ship. The USCG station in Astoria, Oregon dispatched a MH-60 Jayhawk which winched the cruise guest from the Princess cruise ship when the ship was approximately seventy-five miles southwest of the Columbia River Bar near Portland.
• "Medical evacuation of guests or crew members from cruise ships is provided by the USCG without cost or expense to the cruise guests, crew members or the cruise lines themselves. It is one of the many expenses incurred by U.S. federal agencies which are paid by U.S. taxpayers."

 

 

 

A staff member said that Ruby Princess had to do an evacuation four times in the last four months. The ship made it back on time to San Francisco for disembarkation.

 

People in the cabins at the front of the ship had to evacuate their cabins until after the helicopter had winched the guest who needed medical attention off the ship. I was curious. What are those safety reasons?

Because both the ship and the aircraft are in motion;  neither is stable.

 

Additionally, you have the 'human factor' thrown in there, you know, the ones who the rules don't apply to them. Safety first. Or guests questioning why.

 

Also, IF there is a collision, the area the aircraft and ship meet, there doesn't need to be a search and rescue effort in that area.

[MasterNotCommander]

2 hours ago, sloopsailor said:

 

According to a presentation by a ship officer on one of our Celebrity cruises, some older cruise ships have the flat area of the bow marked with an "H" as a place a helicopter could land in emergencies. Some newer ships now have "WINCH" instead, indicating a helicopter cannot land there and winching is the only procedure.

 

I am more familiar with Celebrity ships, so I will use different ships in the same class as examples. On the first three ships in the Solstice class, that forward deck area was strong enough to support the weight of a helicopter. Poles, railings and rigging all were built to fold down for clearance. The following sister ships were built with less support in the decking for weight concerns, and winching is now required there. 

 

Compare the forward "V" shaped area on the two images below. 

 

Pilot helicopters in Australia have landed on Solstice class ships, but not routinely as it's an absolute pain. Helicopters are seen as an external risk to the ship and a liability, standards of helicopter evacuation vary across the world, there isn't a consistent approach. 

[GonzoWCS]

15 hours ago, pebem said:

On September 5, 2022, at 11:52pm PDT (the ninth night of a 10-night San Francisco to Alaska Inside Passage cruise), Ruby Princess Captain Steven Lewis made this announcement:

 

You get your answer yet?

[palolake]

The excuse given to us last month by our room steward was that they had to bring in the deck furniture from all outside cabins because of the wind.  But other reasons make more sense.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, palolake said:

The excuse given to us last month by our room steward was that they had to bring in the deck furniture from all outside cabins because of the wind.  But other reasons make more sense.

That is another valid reason.

[californiagirl]

This exact thing happened yesterday afternoon at sea on Discovery.  It was the Canadian coast guard who performed the procedure.  We slowed to 7 knots and the captain turned the ship 180° so she was facing north.  The patient and his wife were air lifted off the ship.  It occurred in the aft of the ship.  I was surprised that deck 16 was not completely cleared.  The pools, grill, pizza place and buffet remained open.  The very aft area was closed.

[SiliconCruiser]

On 9/8/2022 at 1:15 PM, Blondilu said:

The captain's response:  "Or you could just do what your captain asked you to do."  

There is a point when the captain has to make a life and death decision.  If a crew member or passenger to be evacuated by helicopter, it is a potentially life threatening situation.  If there are a bunch of passengers ignoring the captain's order in their self-righteous right to know, and they are potentially at risk if something should go wrong with helicopter evacuation, the captain has to make a decision.  Losing a bunch of Kens and Karens verses the threatened life of a crew member or passenger ... easy choice even if it means potential damage to the ship itself. 😉

[drowelf]

We were once off the Irish Coast and our ship was used for medical excavuation training exercise by the Irish Coast Guard. We got both a letter and an announcement from the Captain that it would occur at some point in the evening hours. Sure enough around 10pm a ship wide announcement was made that the upper decks were closed and that we should not go out onto our balcony's. Not too much time later, we heard the whuppa-whuppa of helicopter blades overhead and they remained for about 30 minutes after which the Captain came over the speakers and stated that the exercise was over and thanked everyone for their cooperation.