E-Muster Continues

[sunonfire]

https://www.cruisehive.com/carnival-cruise-line-remains-confident-in-e-muster-safety-briefing/92626

[crewsweeper]

Works for me!!!  Easy to just hit the muster station on boarding and be done with it.

[shof515]

Time will tell on what happens. this is outside of carnival control. if the authorities wants in person drills like what happen to other cruise lines (disney first, now slowly norwegian) then in person drills will return. like it not or not 

 

its has been proven plenty of times what john says on that site is not always true and accurate. his job is to polish turds and make it seem like good news

[chengkp75]

When I read this in the article:

 

"noted the success of the new drill in demonstrating real-world application of the safety procedures."

 

I asked myself, "has Carnival had a real emergency?"  Because that would be the only way that they could have had a success in demonstrating "real-world application" of the safety procedures.  'Cause the new drill bears no worldly resemblance to a "real-world" emergency.

 

But, I would say that Carnival, and John Heald last, would have knowledge of whether the IMO and USCG are going to decide the e-muster is going away.  Since SOLAS has not been amended to reflect the e-muster, it has likely only been provisionally approved, subject to review.

[Hoosierpop]

The old muster drill was pointless. Theater to make it seem like something worthwhile was being done. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Hoosierpop

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierpop said:

The old muster drill was pointless. Theater to make it seem like something worthwhile was being done. 

So, in a real emergency, everyone should follow the new muster drill, and decide when they want to saunter down to the muster station?  The purpose of a drill is to train you in what you would actually experience in an emergency, the old drill did that, but the new one doesn't.

[ontheweb]

10 minutes ago, Hoosierpop said:

The old muster drill was pointless. Theater to make it seem like something worthwhile was being done. 

It may have been theater for the passengers, but as @chengkp75 has reminded us several times, it is the only practice that the crew gets actually working with passengers to get them to their proper places.

[pe4all]

Don't know if this is feasible, but maybe they should shut down everyone's sail and sign card and then (somehow) reactivate it when muster is attended and card is scanned. No drinks for you until you attend muster!

[teknoge3k]

46 minutes ago, pe4all said:

Don't know if this is feasible, but maybe they should shut down everyone's sail and sign card and then (somehow) reactivate it when muster is attended and card is scanned. No drinks for you until you attend muster!

 

You are already limited to 2 drinks until you've completed muster. 

[pc_load_letter]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

When I read this in the article:

 

"noted the success of the new drill in demonstrating real-world application of the safety procedures."

 

I asked myself, "has Carnival had a real emergency?"  Because that would be the only way that they could have had a success in demonstrating "real-world application" of the safety procedures.  'Cause the new drill bears no worldly resemblance to a "real-world" emergency.

 

But, I would say that Carnival, and John Heald last, would have knowledge of whether the IMO and USCG are going to decide the e-muster is going away.  Since SOLAS has not been amended to reflect the e-muster, it has likely only been provisionally approved, subject to review.

 

Do you know if any after action report was performed on the efficacy of muster stations and muster drills after Costa Concordia? Have never been able to find anything online.

[Hoosierpop]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

So, in a real emergency, everyone should follow the new muster drill, and decide when they want to saunter down to the muster station?  The purpose of a drill is to train you in what you would actually experience in an emergency, the old drill did that, but the new one doesn't.

I get that’s the purpose. But people standing there like sardines are thinking the same thing. When is this going to be done so I can go have some fun. That wasn’t training. It was checking the box. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Hoosierpop

[chengkp75]

28 minutes ago, pc_load_letter said:

 

Do you know if any after action report was performed on the efficacy of muster stations and muster drills after Costa Concordia? Have never been able to find anything online.

Do you mean specifically for the Concordia, or are you using that as a starting point for subsequent emergencies?  As you know, the Concordia did not have a muster drill before the incident, and the lack of this is mentioned in the official report.  Any subsequent emergencies, would have commentary about the passenger muster in each individual accident report.  I would not expect any overall review of muster drill efficacy until there is another disaster requiring a review of procedures by the IMO Safety Committee.  I don't think there is any debate on the efficacy of the muster stations.

15 minutes ago, Hoosierpop said:

I get that’s the purpose. But people standing there like sardines is thinking the same thing. When is this going to be done so I can go have some fun. That wasn’t training. Is was checking the box. 

Your training was getting from wherever you were to your muster station along with the hundreds or thousands of other passengers doing the same thing at the same time.  As for you standing around, wondering when this is going to be over, you see, you are looking at this only from your standpoint.  While you and every other passenger is standing at the muster station (being accounted for and contained in a controlled and known location, which is the primary purpose of the muster), the crew are doing other things that you don't see, because you're not wandering around the ship.  They are searching every cabin, marking them as vacant, searching public spaces, and collapsing the evacuation team down, deck by deck, to ensure that no one and nothing is missed.  That all takes time.  And, taking this further, you standing around doing nothing simulates what an actual emergency would be like, as you would likely be mustered hours before any thought was given by the Captain to putting you in a boat.  Passengers always mistake "muster" with "getting into the lifeboats".  Muster is about accountability during an emergency.  There have been frequent musters just for a man overboard, where there was no danger to the vessel in any way, but the muster collects and accounts for everyone.

[ohioNCLcruiser]

40 minutes ago, pc_load_letter said:

 

Do you know if any after action report was performed on the efficacy of muster stations and muster drills after Costa Concordia? Have never been able to find anything online.

Due to the Concordia disaster the drills are required to be done before the ship sets sail and not within 24 hours of the ship setting sail. People who boarded the ship the day the Concordia "sank" did not have their drill done yet because Costa was going to have it the next day.

Edited January 18, 2023 by ohioNCLcruiser

[Hoosierpop]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Do you mean specifically for the Concordia, or are you using that as a starting point for subsequent emergencies?  As you know, the Concordia did not have a muster drill before the incident, and the lack of this is mentioned in the official report.  Any subsequent emergencies, would have commentary about the passenger muster in each individual accident report.  I would not expect any overall review of muster drill efficacy until there is another disaster requiring a review of procedures by the IMO Safety Committee.  I don't think there is any debate on the efficacy of the muster stations.

Your training was getting from wherever you were to your muster station along with the hundreds or thousands of other passengers doing the same thing at the same time.  As for you standing around, wondering when this is going to be over, you see, you are looking at this only from your standpoint.  While you and every other passenger is standing at the muster station (being accounted for and contained in a controlled and known location, which is the primary purpose of the muster), the crew are doing other things that you don't see, because you're not wandering around the ship.  They are searching every cabin, marking them as vacant, searching public spaces, and collapsing the evacuation team down, deck by deck, to ensure that no one and nothing is missed.  That all takes time.  And, taking this further, you standing around doing nothing simulates what an actual emergency would be like, as you would likely be mustered hours before any thought was given by the Captain to putting you in a boat.  Passengers always mistake "muster" with "getting into the lifeboats".  Muster is about accountability during an emergency.  There have been frequent musters just for a man overboard, where there was no danger to the vessel in any way, but the muster collects and accounts for everyone.

If they want to have the muster drill because it’s good training for the crew, great. Then have that training. As for passengers, it’s a time to stand still and hopefully not lock knees.

[chengkp75]

19 minutes ago, Hoosierpop said:

As for passengers, it’s a time to stand still and hopefully not lock knees.

And that is just what you would be doing in a real emergency.

[pc_load_letter]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And that is just what you would be doing in a real emergency.

 

Right, that was something to my question...have they shown that people will panic and just run to lifeboats or do they actually remember to go to a muster station.

 

Perhaps off topic, but from what I remember in some documentaries, crew were as confused and "lost" during Concordia and that led to mass confusion.

[EngIceDave]

3 hours ago, Hoosierpop said:

The old muster drill was pointless. Theater to make it seem like something worthwhile was being done. 

Have to respectfully disagree.

The old muster (I hated it too) made you actively seek your PFD, put it on properly and then go to exactly where you're supposed to go in an emergency.

 

Doing something physically is different than reading or seeing done on TV

 

 

[sparks1093]

40 minutes ago, Hoosierpop said:

If they want to have the muster drill because it’s good training for the crew, great. Then have that training. As for passengers, it’s a time to stand still and hopefully not lock knees.

Have to have passengers involved to fully train the crew. 

[chengkp75]

35 minutes ago, pc_load_letter said:

Perhaps off topic, but from what I remember in some documentaries, crew were as confused and "lost" during Concordia and that led to mass confusion.

Most of the documentaries are less accurate than the official investigation report.  What passengers stated as "confusion" was in fact the crew obeying the orders (or in fact the lack of orders) from the Command team, and sending passengers away from muster stations, since no muster signal had been sounded.

 

37 minutes ago, pc_load_letter said:

Right, that was something to my question...have they shown that people will panic and just run to lifeboats or do they actually remember to go to a muster station.

That is one of the actual benefits of the old style drill, it gives the crew actual experience in handling crowds that are recalcitrant (hating the drill) which would be substituted with panic in an emergency.  That is why there are crew stationed in stairways, and passageways, and at doorways, to stop people from going the wrong way to the wrong locations.  Muster stations are not randomly chosen by cruise lines.  SOLAS requires the station to be "as close as practicable" to the boats, so older ships with larger promenade decks still have the muster stations under the boats (and will have them there forever), while those ships that don't have sufficient space for the muster as well as passing traffic on the deck under the boats can use an indoor space.  That space must meet criteria based on historical crowd reaction studies (crowd and crisis management computer paradigms) to determine if the space has sufficient ingress/egress to move the desired number of people at the muster station, the required volume, ventilation, structural fire protection, lighting, and a sufficient path to the boats.

[Hoosierpop]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

And that is just what you would be doing in a real emergency.

That’s what people do during the old muster drill. Saw people feint standing there. 

[ontheweb]

59 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Have to have passengers involved to fully train the crew. 

And that includes passengers who really do not want to participate in the muster drill.

[lazydayz]

1 hour ago, EngIceDave said:

Have to respectfully disagree.

The old muster (I hated it too) made you actively seek your PFD, put it on properly and then go to exactly where you're supposed to go in an emergency.

 

Doing something physically is different than reading or seeing done on TV

 

 

 

Wow, that was the really old muster drill.  Haven't had to wear or bring your PFD for a decade or more.  

[pe4all]

2 hours ago, teknoge3k said:

 

You are already limited to 2 drinks until you've completed muster. 

Had no idea that was the rule, as I don't really drink.  However, I know for a fact that people were well above 2 drinks when we used to do muster "the old way."  (ex: I saw people with buckets of beer well before muster drill.)  Either way - I am sure more people would immediately do muster if their cards were not allowed to be used at all for alcohol upon embarkation.

[sunonfire]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

And that is just what you would be doing in a real emergency.

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2907838-carnival-pride-jan-7-15/page/2/

on page 2 - the #27 post.  The lady described a “man overboard” on the Pride. She detailed the crew trying to determine who was missing while others were looking for the passenger. There was no man overboard but she said it took about 2 hours to determine that.

[EngIceDave]

39 minutes ago, lazydayz said:

 

Wow, that was the really old muster drill.  Haven't had to wear or bring your PFD for a decade or more.  

Has it been?

Stupid brain....

 

I know we had to do it on MSC Armonia in 2019, pre-cooties