New Crystal - the Good, the Bad and the Indifferent

[BWIVince]

43 minutes ago, CryptOkicker5 said:

 

These are the published passenger and crew counts for old Crystal:

 

Symphony: 848 passengers, 545 crew.  (1.56 to 1)

Serenity: 980 passengers, 655 crew. (1.50 to 1)

 

So, as I wrote earlier, 1.6 to 1 would be pretty good. Why don't they just say that? If they imply that the ratio is 1 to 1, that's dishonest, I think.

I’m not sure of how many other ways to say this….  Setting aside that staffing is variable and that makes the numbers rough to begin with, how can they have an exact (maximum) crew count at this point until they have a firm final list of crew positions, designed from the final product offering — which we’re still weeks (optimistically) or months (realistically) away from?  They can give you an estimate based on what’s known at this point, but not an exact number.

 

Vince

[BWIVince]

3 minutes ago, CryptOkicker5 said:

 

There must be at least 50 ways to say it. I have confidence in you, BWIVince!

 

 

In that sense, you can say each trip is different, and that's true. But they were always able to give a number before ... all the cruise lines publish a number ... and I know sometimes they are just marketing hype. It's perfectly legal to say that you make the World's Greatest Hamburger, for example. Symphony of the Seas could say they have a 1 to 1 ratio if you count everyone who has anything to do with that humongous ship.

 

It should be really easy for new Crystal to state the expected crew for both a 606 and a 740 passenger ship. Their failure to do that is a problem. My 2 cents - I know, that's even a smaller number much in crypto - but at least I'm stating a number.

Let me try to deconstruct the hypothetical crew number, that will probably help explain it better…

 

The maximum crew number is a bottom-up roll-up of positions, not a top-down count…. Meaning they don’t set a ratio of passenger to crew, and then hope they magically have people to do all of the tasks, they start with general estimates and proportions and allot crew to departments before breaking down those estimates into specific, individual positions.  Positions then get moved between departments, venues or shifts as the schedule gets more granular.  Sometimes positions can be split between venues as capacity dictates, when the schedule gets to its most granular, as you saw with the staff in the Bistro, Lido, and other venues.

 

There are holes right now in the product design that are still being decided and designed, which have different staffing models depending on where the concepts finally land.  (The casino space is just one example — it could require anywhere from approx.  10 crew to zero crew, depending on what’s decided — and that’s just 1 room still in flux among many product aspects in play.

 

So that general estimate of proportions appears to be the number they’re quoting right now because it gives a good round proportion of crew based on what’s known at this point, but that number will move around and change a bit when you get down to the final schedule of positions.  That’s when you know exactly how many people you need, where you need them, and when…. And most importantly how many crew it will take to serve exactly how many passengers are on each cruise, based on occupancy.

 

Does that make more sense now?

 

Vince

[Jimmycruiser]

2 minutes ago, CryptOkicker5 said:

 

There must be at least 50 ways to say it. I have confidence in you, BWIVince!

 

 

In that sense, you can say each trip is different, and that's true. But they were always able to give a number before ... all the cruise lines publish a number ... and I know sometimes they are just marketing hype. It's perfectly legal to say that you make the World's Greatest Hamburger, for example. Symphony of the Seas could say they have a 1 to 1 ratio if you count everyone who has anything to do with that humongous ship.

 

It should be really easy for new Crystal to state the expected crew for both a 606 and a 740 passenger ship. Their failure to do that is a problem. My 2 cents - I know, that's even a smaller number much in crypto - but at least I'm stating a number.

I am at a loss to understand why it matters to the level of detail you expect. If they state a number that matches the ratio of old Crystal does that really matter. It appears you do not have much confidence in the new Crystal to provide the same level of service than the old Crystal, which is your right.

[crickette]

2 hours ago, braxx20 said:

While we were waiting for the New Crystal, we booked a cruise with Seabourn.  I heard that they were honoring Crystal Society status so I checked them out and they are asking for  a "screenshot of Crystal Cruises account, showing membership level". Can anyone tell me IF or how I can get that?

Thanks

Hubert

 

Booked on Serenity , Nov, 22 day B2B trip Miami. NO AIR needed YAY! , plenty of sea days, the ship IS the destination.

Our most recent Crystal booking confirmation shows our membership number and cruise level. Search for the words *Completed voyage credits (include the asterisk if you wish).  You might want to read this thread: https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2862867-seabourn-recognizes-crystal-society-milestone-levels/?do=findComment&comment=63475386

 

[bitob]

4 hours ago, AtA said:

1. Or to look at it differently, refurbished ships with great layouts and the majority of cabins now comparable to the newer ships.

 

But you have not seen the ships or the cabins yet!!  or have you?  Remarkable statement based on very little information.  I doubt these new cabins or the ships will be comparable -- improved perhaps- comparable is a giant leap. Have you even experienced these newer ships?

[AtA]

9 minutes ago, bitob said:

But you have not seen the ships or the cabins yet!!  or have you?  Remarkable statement based on very little information.  I doubt these new cabins or the ships will be comparable -- improved perhaps- comparable is a giant leap. Have you even experienced these newer ships?

I’m talking about the ship layouts which I actually prefer. Look at the deck plans and you’ll see they are keeping the SHIP layout pretty much the same

 

You are correct. I don’t yet know the new CABIN layouts but do know they are increasing the size of the majority of them. They may not be comparable. They may actually be better than the cabin we stayed in on SB and SS. I preferred the old Crystal PH to either regular cabin on SS and SB. All 3 were approximately the same size. 

[KenzSailing]

 

As long as I know there's one guy or gal behind the piano in the Avenue,  I'm comfortable the rest will work out just fine. 

[Jimmycruiser]

10 minutes ago, bitob said:

But you have not seen the ships or the cabins yet!!  or have you?  Remarkable statement based on very little information.  I doubt these new cabins or the ships will be comparable -- improved perhaps- comparable is a giant leap. Have you even experienced these newer ships?

You continue to challenge posters or take issue with their personal choices or preferences or willingness to take risks. Last year we sailed Silver Muse and Seabourn Quest and although our veranda mid ship cabins were very nice they were not as nice as the PH cabin we had on Crystal in 2021. I have booked Crystal for 2024 in what was the old SH cabin on Symphony and am very confident they will be nicer than what I had on Silversea or Seabourn.

[Keith1010]

I agree.

 

ATA's comments are spot-on.

 

Each ship as we know them has very few changes in the public areas other than the removal of the casino.

 

The changes to the guest rooms are simply less rooms with more suites.

 

Unless someone is planning to try out each and every room we know the ships very well.

 

And as to trying out a new room how is that any different than going on any ship for the first time and staying in a room you have never stay in before. We study deck plans and room plans and just like booking a room at at hotel we study the little photo they provide and make a difference.

 

This is not rocket science at all.

 

It is actually very simple.

 

Keith

[bitob]

4 minutes ago, AtA said:

I’m talking about the ship layouts which I actually prefer. Look at the deck plans and you’ll see they are keeping the SHIP layout pretty much the same

 

You are correct. I don’t yet know the new CABIN layouts but do know they are increasing the size of the majority of them. They may not be comparable. They may actually be better than the cabin we stayed in on SB and SS. I preferred the old Crystal PH to either regular cabin on SS and SB. All 3 were approximately the same size. 

 

Just now, Jimmycruiser said:

You continue to challenge posters or take issue with their personal choices or preferences or willingness to take risks. Last year we sailed Silver Muse and Seabourn Quest and although our veranda mid ship cabins were very nice they were not as nice as the PH cabin we had on Crystal in 2021. I have booked Crystal for 2024 in what was the old SH cabin on Symphony and am very confident they will be nicer than what I had on Silversea or Seabourn.

Happy for you

 

I will always challenge when people make statements of "fact"  that are based on mere conjecture.

Big difference between knowing something for sure and hoping for something.

[BWIVince]

17 minutes ago, CryptOkicker5 said:

 

I think that's exactly it. They are throwing around a ratio of 1 to 1, which I think is disingenuous. Purely hype to sell tickets. There is a real number - sorry BWIVince, but there is one - they just don't want to be held to it, so they use weaselly marketing words.

That’s exactly my point…. Saying a crew ratio of 1:1 covers a range of numbers that matches the general allocations that they are working with right now at this phase in the development of the product.  The exact number will vary until some of the decisions are finalized, which will impact exactly how many people it takes to staff the ship at maximum capacity.

 

It’s not disingenuous— it’s a process.  I don’t know how you think they can estimate the exact number of crew it will take to staff a space when you have no idea whether you need anyone in there at all — and that’s just one space that’s still in play.

 

Vince

[Texas Tillie]

20 minutes ago, CryptOkicker5 said:

 

I think that's exactly it. They are throwing around a ratio of 1 to 1, which I think is disingenuous. Purely hype to sell tickets. There is a real number - sorry BWIVince, but there is one - they just don't want to be held to it, so they use weaselly marketing words.

 

How's this, there's a real number, but they don't know what it is, yet, for all the reasons Vince has explained until he's blue in the face. You either trust that when the new Crystal starts sailing it will be as good or better than the old Crystal or you don't trust them. Go to all the cruise lines websites and delete all the "weaselly marketing words" and you wouldn't find a complete sentence!!

[Jimmycruiser]

3 minutes ago, bitob said:

 

Happy for you

 

I will always challenge when people make statements of "fact"  that are based on mere conjecture.

Big difference between knowing something for sure and hoping for something.

What “facts” were stated. You may interpret them as stating fact but I read the same posts and did not interpret them as “fact” but opinion. To me you just like to challenge statements you do not agree with. I know I do not have to read your posts.

[BWIVince]

22 minutes ago, CryptOkicker5 said:

It's their business to know!

 

Whether or not there is a casino, there is a space there, and it will be filled with passengers who need crew to tend to their needs..

Of course it’s their business to know — and they will absolutely know exactly how many people to hire and contract — and acquire them — once those details are all finalized.  
 

That is definitely not true about the casino though…. How many people are needed for that space will depend on exactly what comes of it.  Crystal has many public rooms that don’t add any dedicated crew members, and it could possibly become something along those lines.  Even if it becomes a lounge though, a lounge that size uses less than half the crew members of a casino.  Hence the issue with exact numbers.

 

Vince

[braxx20]

52 minutes ago, CryptOkicker5 said:

Here, I'll get a step ahead of you ...

 

Gentlemen, you can't fight in here; this is the Crystal Forum!

 

People   -  get a life!! Too much garbage, where is the moderator?

[KenzSailing]

-Sigh-

 

If you're going to reference the greatest movie ever made, let's show some respect:

 

 

 And to our new Miss Manners:

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by KenzSailing
typo

[skybluewaters]

2 hours ago, CryptOkicker5 said:

What do these guys know that they're not telling us?

 

 

Darn it, you discovered their dirty little secret!  The two Crystal ships never were intended to sail the itineraries listed on the Crystal website.  They're actually being converted into private yachts, one for Manfredi and one for Geoffrey Kent.

 

And the actual ratio of crew to passengers will be 20:1.

[Keith1010]

My thoughts.

 

There are some people who would not book a cruise with Crystal until others try it out.  That is their choice.  

I don't know anyone posting that you are making a mistake.  

 

There are others on this board who have made bookings with the new Crystal like myself and see no need to wait for reviews.  Why is there a need for others to question that.

 

In short, people need to do what they want but the constant need to question this or to say what a mistake it is to me doesn't add value.

 

As to fact, there are many things we do know. For example, number of guest suites, most of the venues with the exception of what one specialty restaurant will be called and what the space from the casino will be used for.

 

These are facts.  

 

And yes, we know many crew are returning and while some of you don't want to accept that or question the words being used for that this is fact.  

 

I just wonder why the continual questioning of those who are booking cruises without waiting continues.  We are all adults and can make our decisions.  Some of you do things I would never do such as flying in the day of a cruise. When I hear that I will give my own experience but IMHO best to state it one time and not keep saying it over and over.  

 

We certainly don't know everything about the new Crystal.  One of the reasons is it is new.  Another reason is they are still finalizing many details.  With each passing day week we learn more.  There will be some things we won't know until the sailings start but that was true of old Crystal each time it evolved and is true of most lines when changes are made.  Personally, I find that existing.  One of the things I enjoyed about the evolution of Crystal is that it changed. Sometimes it changed too slow from my point of view and on occasion maybe it go ahead of itself.

 

In life if you make a decision to do so the continual questioning and comments about "I would never do that" I believe get old.  You remember when parents would tell you I wouldn't do that or you are making a big mistake.  At some point that does get old and at some point you just ignore it.

 

The people I know who have made bookings are very excited about their cruises and people IMHO should be happy for that. You don't have to agree.

 

As to the precise number of crew that does vary all the time as Vince said. This is something that I don't plan to ask about.  Maybe while on-board that would be a question to ask.  What I do expect is that the number of crew in various areas will change as it always has when changes were made such as when new dining venues were added.  What I do know is a seasoned crew makes a big difference as I have experienced in all our years of cruising.  

 

Keith

[History&Wine]

13 hours ago, crickette said:

Our most recent Crystal booking confirmation shows our membership number and cruise level. Search for the words *Completed voyage credits (include the asterisk if you wish).  You might want to read this thread: https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2862867-seabourn-recognizes-crystal-society-milestone-levels/?do=findComment&comment=63475386

 

My Crystal booking has NO mention of my membership number, and no mention of my cruise level. 

[crickette]

6 minutes ago, History&Wine said:

My Crystal booking has NO mention of my membership number, and no mention of my cruise level. 

Try an older one, maybe

[Keith1010]

10 minutes ago, History&Wine said:

My Crystal booking has NO mention of my membership number, and no mention of my cruise level. 

That's correct.

 

New ones (at least mine don't show them). Only the ones from recent years before Crystal ceased operations show them

 

Keith

[Stickman1990]

22 minutes ago, Keith1010 said:

New ones (at least mine don't show them). Only the ones from recent years before Crystal ceased operations show them

Different companies - not unexpected 

[Keith1010]

1 minute ago, Stickman1990 said:

Different companies - not unexpected 

Or it could be it will come in time.

 

Ummm.  Time will tell.

[Psoque]

I wonder what Crystal means by the word “nearly.”. Is 1.49 “nearly one?”. How about 1.55?  How about 1.6?

 

I am always suspicious of words like “nearly” because the use of it could be intentionally misleading.  Or just sloppy accounting?  I guess we will find out sometime, when the ships actually start their cruises with passengers.

 

Also, the actual passenger/crew ratio is, of course, dependent on % occupancy.  Our first cruise on Crystal Symphony many years ago had a very favorable passenger/crew ratio because a the ship had a very low occupancy (maybe half full or something like that)  secondary to cabin refurbishment delays.  We remember our waiters so eager to help us that we barely stood in line at buffet.  One of the waiters always told us to have them go through the line for us.  We thought that was really hysterical.

 

[Keith1010]

1 hour ago, CryptOkicker5 said:

In order for Crystal to achieve a ratio of {nearly} one crew member for each passenger, they would have to accommodate {nearly} 85 additional crew members on Serenity (740 - 655) and {nearly} 61 additional crew on Symphony (606 - 545).

 

Is there even space on the ships to accommodate {nearly} that many additional crew below deck?

 

And how would the returning crew members feel about losing some of their personal space on the ships?

No worries. They can use life boats to sleep or sleeping bags