American Airlines cuts over 50,000 summer flights!

[Hlitner]

I admit to being an airline amateur compared to many on this blog.  But, for several years, I have argued that US airlines think of their schedules as advisory and not real.  They are so focused on protecting their turf, and slots, that they schedule flights that they are well aware can never happen for lack of aircraft, pilots, staff, etc.  So today, we hear that AA has just cancelled over 50.000 summer flights!  These flights were all on their long-term schedule (usually available for booking about 330 days in advance)! 50,0000 flights cancelled!  That is an outrage and if our government had any kind of leadership they would go after AA for this BS.  At the very least, AA should lose many of their allotted slots in and out of major airports (which have a limited number of slots).  If AA cannot operate these flights, perhaps other airlines will fill the void.  

 

We, ourselves, have already become victim of one AA cancellation that has caused us some major issues.  For our upcoming flight to Asia, we at least had enough sense to book foreign carriers with a reputation of standing behind their published schedules.  As consumers, we often get blindsided and screwed by our domestic airlines who seem to put their customers last in terms of comfort, schedules, support, etc.  I am a big believer in competition, but the current system of slots and airport gates, in the USA, seems to be designed to support the existing airlines, keep out new competition, and screw the consumers.  Airlines schedule flights that they never intend to fly just to maintain their hourly slots (and airport gates).  It is a game played by all the domestic airlines and the losers are we consumers!  Enough!

 

Hank

[FlyerTalker]

Where to start.

 

Let's begin with that scary 50,000 number and put it into perspective.  Assuming that this would cover perhaps 100 days of travel, that works out to 500 flights per day.  Given that AA operates about 6700 daily flights, we are talking about 7.5% of the schedule.  Significant, but not that scary.

 

Now to slots and gates.  Those will all still be in place, and flights will continue to operate at slot controlled airports.  Of course, do you know how many there are in the USA?  THREE.  JFK, LGA and DCA.  And there are modified slots in place at ORD, LAX, EWR and SFO.  So please don't think this is some giant overriding control over the entire country.

 

AA will use all of their slots.  So there is nothing to be done by anyone.

 

As for government stepping in.  Just what are you going to have them do?  Force airlines to fly flights that they do not have legal crew for?  Should the govt say "Hey, AA.  Even though we have limits on how many hours a pilot can fly, we're going to ignore them and have your pilots fly over the legal limit."?

 

I'll stop for now.

[Globaliser]

5 hours ago, Hlitner said:

For our upcoming flight to Asia, we at least had enough sense to book foreign carriers with a reputation of standing behind their published schedules.

 

I hope it wasn't that reputable foreign carrier called Lufthansa? It has just cancelled 34,000 flights from its summer schedule.

 

What you're seeing is not a US airline problem. It's a worldwide airline industry problem. Don't be blinded by a "Why was it me who got inconvenienced?" perspective.

[6rugrats]

Agree, this is not the disaster you are making it out to be. The affected passengers will be placed on other flights.  They just may not be the nonstop flight they originally booked.

 

Why are many of these flights being cancelled?  One big reason is staffing.  Airlines don't pay enough, work schedules can be terrible and many passengers treat agents like garbage.  I can't tell you how many times over the last several months, passengers have stormed into the office where I work, acting like frustrated two year olds.

 

We aren't responsible for delays/cancelations/staff shortages/weight/the stuff you leave on planes, etc.  Most agents do their best to help you, but honestly, if you treat them terribly, do you think they will go out-of-their way to find a solution?

 

The corrections in the schedule will actually help bring some stability, hopefully resulting in less problems this summer.  Last summer, staffing combined with weather, made it a nightmare many days.

 

People always sing the praises of foreign carriers (vs. US), and many times they are great, but not so much when you run into a problem.  IMO, try getting help from Avianca, or Copa, if there's a problem with your flight, just to name a couple.  

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by 6rugrats

[CruiserBruce]

United has been canceling some flights as well. When we booked SFO-BOS for a September cruise, there were 3 non-stop flights that worked...6am, 7am and 8:30am. We booked the 7am. A month later, they cut that to one flight...8:30, and merged everyone into that flight.

 

Some cancelation of flights can easily be caused by slow resumption of service to some places due to lack of demand post Covid. Like China, for example.

[Z'Loth]

It's going to take years for the airline service to get back to the service levels that existed prior to the great shutdown of Spring 2020. Do you fly empty airplanes at that point or cut costs by eliminating flights and crews? Some used this opportunity to either take early retirement or go into another, less stressful, better paying line of work. Those who were later recalled had to deal with that entitled 5% who got extremely rude and obnoxious because they got told they had to wear a mask during the flight... as required by the FAA at the time. The solution may require that the airlines increase the wages, and we get to pay the higher airfares.

 

I live in DFW which is the hub for both American Airlines and Southwest Airlines. I'm looking at airfares for my cruise next January to FLL. If I fly American, I can get a non-stop that takes 2h 38m to fly to FLL and 3h 26m to return to DFW for just $396 round trip (basic economy).... OR I can fly Delta that passes through Atlanta and takes 5h 42m to get FLL and 6h 18m to return to DFW for just $395 round trip (Basic economy)... and that includes the constraint of "no flights from FLL to DFW before 11 AM". Just for fun, I flipped it to ATL which is the hub for Delta airlines. Delta is cheaper and has non-stops while American's "cheaper" flights still have you traveling through Charlette, North Carolina. 

 

This just emphasizes the point that, under the current conditions, don't even think about flying in on the same day and have travel insurance. 

[Zach1213]

13 hours ago, Z'Loth said:

The solution may require that the airlines increase the wages

 

Oh it's already happening. My cousin is wrapping up flight school and the salaries she's looking at as an entry level RJ pilot are definitely higher than they were just a few years ago when she started school. She ended up timing it pretty darn well. 

[6rugrats]

3 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

 

Oh it's already happening. My cousin is wrapping up flight school and the salaries she's looking at as an entry level RJ pilot are definitely higher than they were just a few years ago when she started school. She ended up timing it pretty darn well. 

Well, yeah.  Pilots get everything, including the most benefits and highest pay.  FAs are next, then the rest of us peasants who glean the crumbs.

[nini]

On 2/24/2023 at 11:12 AM, 6rugrats said:

Well, yeah.  Pilots get everything, including the most benefits and highest pay.  FAs are next, then the rest of us peasants who glean the crumbs.

 

Look at it this way... your life is in the "hands" of the flight crew.

[Fairgarth]

1 hour ago, nini said:

 

Look at it this way... your life is in the "hands" of the flight crew.

 

So pilots of cargo planes get paid a lot less?

[Globaliser]

2 hours ago, nini said:

Look at it this way... your life is in the "hands" of the flight crew.

 

Safety is everyone's business. Many other airline employees (including cabin crew and ground staff) have critical safety responsibilities that pilots can't check, so that they have to rely on the others employees to do their jobs properly.

[6rugrats]

2 hours ago, nini said:

 

Look at it this way... your life is in the "hands" of the flight crew.

Safety is the first concern of every airline employee. If the customer service agent can't get you on the plane, you don't need to worry about the flight crew.

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by 6rugrats

[nini]

40 minutes ago, 6rugrats said:

Safety is the first concern of every airline employee. If the customer service agent can't get you on the plane, you don't need to worry about the flight crew.

 

 

Yes- I was referring to the person who was upset about what they called "overpaid" pilots, etc. Personally, I think the earn it.

[Zach1213]

On 2/25/2023 at 4:29 PM, Globaliser said:

 

Safety is everyone's business. Many other airline employees (including cabin crew and ground staff) have critical safety responsibilities that pilots can't check, so that they have to rely on the others employees to do their jobs properly.

 

As an aero engineer, I'd also like to point out how hard the engineers, designers, builders, and maintenance folks work to make sure the aircraft are designed, built, and maintained in the safest way possible. 

[chillyw]

Airlines use placeholder schedules until around 100 days out, then start to dial in on what they're actually going to fly.  When these headlines run, and they run quite often, it's generally clickbait type articles generated by airlines adjusting their placeholder schedules to their real ones.

 

I'd love for the industry to get more consumer friendly and have real schedules longer than 100 days out, but at the same time, I also don't think this is that big of a deal. 

 

You can see CrankyFlyer's analysis of United's placeholder schedule here.  Only 1/3rd of the schedule is seemingly accurate until 100-days out: https://crankyflier.com/2023/02/14/only-a-third-of-uniteds-schedule-is-accurate-today-a-breakdown/

[FlyerTalker]

Want to get it straight from the horse's mouth.  Here's the head of AA scheduling giving a very good talk on how AA schedules.

 

 

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, chillyw said:

Airlines use placeholder schedules until around 100 days out, then start to dial in on what they're actually going to fly.  When these headlines run, and they run quite often, it's generally clickbait type articles generated by airlines adjusting their placeholder schedules to their real ones.

 

I'd love for the industry to get more consumer friendly and have real schedules longer than 100 days out, but at the same time, I also don't think this is that big of a deal. 

 

You can see CrankyFlyer's analysis of United's placeholder schedule here.  Only 1/3rd of the schedule is seemingly accurate until 100-days out: https://crankyflier.com/2023/02/14/only-a-third-of-uniteds-schedule-is-accurate-today-a-breakdown/

That is absolutely true, and AA just admitted, and seemed proud, that they are "publishing their final schedules about 100 days in advance! " The problem with this is that they are selling flights 330 days in advance.  As I pointed out in my previous post, there is an ulterior motive which is to tie-up slots (at the busiest airports) which deprives other airlines from increasing their schedules.  You may call it a "place holder" but I call it an outrageous and obvious attempt at "restraint of trade."  The loser is the consumer and other airlines that might want to increase or start service on that route.

 

I think the government should only allocate slots for flights that remain on the schedule.  Airlines that "adjust their schedule" should also have their "slots adjusted."  

 

Hank

 

Hank

[FlyerTalker]

Suffice to say....you don't know or understand the slot system.  Perhaps you should do a bit more in-depth research.

 

AA, and others, are not there "to tie-up slots".  They are operating flights for all of their slots - they are using their full allocation.  There are penalties if they don't use their slots.  So don't try to say that they are engaging in restraint of trade.

 

And as to your last paragraph....that's exactly what already happens.  Slots match to flights that operate.

 

I'm out of this thread.....knowledge seems to have little chance versus anti-airline emotion.

[chillyw]

40 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

Want to get it straight from the horse's mouth.  Here's the head of AA scheduling giving a very good talk on how AA schedules.

 

 

 

Loved that talk, didn't realize you had posted it here!  I was going to reference it too 😁

[Z'Loth]

5 hours ago, Hlitner said:

That is absolutely true, and AA just admitted, and seemed proud, that they are "publishing their final schedules about 100 days in advance! " The problem with this is that they are selling flights 330 days in advance. 

 

I have a crystal ball that sits on my desk at work. I have been trying to use it to predict which members of my team will be out on certain days, when features get released, what technical issues can be encountered, and what the weather will be like on my cruise next January. As you probably guessed, it doesn't work at all. 

 

At least the airlines can utilize historical data to plan their schedules... unless major events throw a monkey wrench in the works. Like a global pandemic on a global scale not seen since 1918 for a disease that didn't even exist until December, 2019, or a financial crisis in late 2008 which caused many companies to panic and say "no travel allowed, you must meet online" as they slashed expenses. 

 

 

[Globaliser]

16 hours ago, Hlitner said:

The problem with this is that they are selling flights 330 days in advance.

 

So what? I don't think that there is a single mode of public transport that does not work on the basis that schedules published a long time in advance are subject to cancellation or change. No mode of scheduled public transport contractually promises to operate its published schedule, and all modes do accordingly cancel and change their published schedules.

 

16 hours ago, Hlitner said:

As I pointed out in my previous post, there is an ulterior motive which is to tie-up slots (at the busiest airports) which deprives other airlines from increasing their schedules.

 

There are two big flaws with this theory. Slots are valuable, and airlines lose them if they're not actually operated.

 

The first big flaw in your theory is that airline schedules that depend on slots tend not to be cancelled or changed so much. Airlines will sometimes even operate flights at a loss to ensure that they keep the slots. If airlines were doing what you accuse them of (deliberately over-scheduling flights in advance and then routinely cancelling them), they would lose their slots and competitors would be able to grab those slots instead. So if there were any truth in your theory, the airlines doing this would be engaging in a monumental act of self-harm.

 

The other big flaw is that the schedules that do not depend on slots, and are therefore more likely to be cancelled or changed, therefore do not stop other airlines from scheduling competing flights anyway. So if one airline schedules too many flights at these airports, there's nothing to stop any other airline from increasing its schedules if it thinks it can clean up when the first airline cancels some of its flights.

 

You have more of a point about gates. There's a distinct (although not exclusively) US practice of leasing gates to specific airlines so that other airlines can't use them. However, although airlines are keen to make sure competitors don't get hold of their slots, I've never heard it seriously suggested that airlines hog gate space to keep out competitors.

[NMTraveller]

I just had my summer American flights rescheduled.

 

There are definitely less flights available.

[latebloomer56]

How do we check if our EZair Athens to JFK is all set? 

[nini]

49 minutes ago, latebloomer56 said:

How do we check if our EZair Athens to JFK is all set? 

 

Are you ticketed? Call Princess.

[latebloomer56]

1 hour ago, nini said:

 

Are you ticketed? Call Princess.

I think so they just changes our flight time two weeks ago to two hours later leaving Athens to JFK. I have time it isn't until Aug. Thanks I will contact TA and ask her to make sure we are all set before we change our JFK to Boston flight on our return.